Taiwan fisherman shot dead by Filipino military

[soaringeagle]

In a debate it is the norm for both side to supply documentary back ups to support his/her points.
Arguing just base on personal believes and opinions has less credibility.

So far it is rather one sided.

 

[Wholegrain]

Again, Chinese Army never able to occupy North Viet Nam so what's the objective of Chinese in this war for sending troops to Viet Nam? Just to run around to get mowed down by the French? French held Tonkin firmly while shooting Chinese troops for sport. The French even expanded the war by attacking China for meddling into Viet Nam. The French completely humiliated China making you guys pay compensatin for the war, recognized Viet Nam as French Protectorate, even annexing some part of your land and you call that a French "defeat" due to some skirmish at the border that the French chased you down?


I did not claim, it was you who claim that French demanded compensation from China for their "defeat" at Bac Le? How is that a "defeat" for France? LOL

We all have eyes, you know, and we all know how to read English. I'm presuming that you are assuming that everyone else here is an idiot because we can all see where you claimed China paid compensation to France.

France gained Tonkin after first mowing down the Vietnamese peasants, who died in far greater numbers in the Tonkin Campaign and pacficiation.

Throne and Mandarins: China's Search for a Policy During the Sino-French ... - Lloyd E. Eastman - Google Books

The French and Chinese versions usually differ regarding which side first opened fire. In any case, the result was that the French were repulsed, after a three-day fight, with nearly one hundred casualties. The Chinese incurred casualties three times as heavy, but they held their position. This was, in the eyes of both nations, a defeat for the French.

China humiliated France, the Keelung campaign was a failure, France had to give up their annexation of the Pescadores and Taiwan and drop their demands that China pay an indemnity. The only "loss" was Vietnam turning into a French protectorate, if 5star says this was a "loss" for China, then thats an admission that Vietnam was China's ***** before the war.

 

[ViXuyen]

We all have eyes, you know, and we all know how to read English. I'm presuming that you are assuming that everyone else here is an idiot because we can all see where you claimed China paid compensation to France.

France gained Tonkin after first mowing down the Vietnamese peasants, who died in far greater numbers in the Tonkin Campaign and pacficiation.

Throne and Mandarins: China's Search for a Policy During the Sino-French ... - Lloyd E. Eastman - Google Books



China humiliated France, the Keelung campaign was a failure, France had to give up their annexation of the Pescadores and Taiwan and drop their demands that China pay an indemnity. The only "loss" was Vietnam turning into a French protectorate, if 5star says this was a "loss" for China, then thats an admission that Vietnam was China's ***** before the war.

Viet Nam was a vassal of China so what's your point? Less ********? Does it change the fact that China sending troops to Viet Nam resulted in total disaster? French casualties were minimal compared to Chinese. Chinese never able to push French out of North Vietnam (like China failed to push Viet Nam out of Cambodia in 1979 war). All Chinese were able to accomplish was running around getting mowed down by the French. Eventually, China even lost some land to the French and eventually have to sign a treaty to recognize Viet Nam as France's Protectorate? Is that a "victory" for the Chinese for sending troops to Viet Nam

 

[Wholegrain]

Viet Nam was a vassal of China so what's your point? Less ********? Does it change the fact that China sending troops to Viet Nam resulted in total disaster? French casualties were minimal compared to Chinese. Chinese never able to push French out of North Vietnam (like China failed to push Viet Nam out of Cambodia in 1979 war). All Chinese were able to accomplish was running around getting mowed down by the French. Eventually, China even lost some land to the French and eventually have to sign a treaty to recognize Viet Nam as France's Protectorate? Is that a "victory" for the Chinese for sending troops to Viet Nam

France INVADED China in the Pescadores and Taiwan, and wanted to turn the Pescadores into the French version of Hong Kong. The indemnity demand was also not just to make money, it was because France wanted to make China admit that it started the war at Bac Le, not when war was actually declared when France attacked Chinese soil.

China first managed to defeat their attempted conquest of Taiwan, and then force them to withdraw from Taiwan and the Pescadores without admitting fault for starting the war through the dropped indemnity.

French casulaties were minimal compared to China like how Soviet casulaties were minimal compared to Afghans but they got completely screwed by the mujahideen, and in the American Civil War, the north suffered more casulaties even though in won the war. Casualty count means nothing, if it does, then that means America won the Vietnam War.

China forced the collapsed of the Jules Ferry government in France, and did not withdraw from Tonkin until Japan and Russia started threatening to join France. France's goal was to evict all Chinese forces from Tonkin, conquer Taiwan and the annex the Pescadores and make China pay an indemnity, all via military force.

France militarily failed in its goals. China would not have withdrawn if not threatened by Japan and Russia joining the war. the withdrawl was voluntary and not because France militarily forced China out.

Japan also managed to conquer Taiwan within sixth months in 1895 while France failed to advance beyond a single city in Taiwan, Keelung in eight months. The French military was a gigantic failure for a western "great power".

 

[ViXuyen]

France INVADED China in the Pescadores and Taiwan, and wanted to turn the Pescadores into the French version of Hong Kong. The indemnity demand was also not just to make money, it was because France wanted to make China admit that it started the war at Bac Le, not when war was actually declared when France attacked Chinese soil.

China first managed to defeat their attempted conquest of Taiwan, and then force them to withdraw from Taiwan and the Pescadores without admitting fault for starting the war through the dropped indemnity.

French casulaties were minimal compared to China like how Soviet casulaties were minimal compared to Afghans but they got completely screwed by the mujahideen, and in the American Civil War, the north suffered more casulaties even though in won the war. Casualty count means nothing, if it does, then that means America won the Vietnam War.

China forced the collapsed of the Jules Ferry government in France, and did not withdraw from Tonkin until Japan and Russia started threatening to join France. France's goal was to evict all Chinese forces from Tonkin, conquer Taiwan and the annex the Pescadores and make China pay an indemnity, all via military force.

France militarily failed in of its goals. China would not have withdrawn if not threatened by Japan and Russia joining the war. the withdrawl was voluntary and not because France militarily forced China out.

Japan also managed to conquer Taiwan within a year in 1895, while France failed. The French military was a gigantic failure for a western "great power".

Chinese military expedition in North Viet Nam was a total failure. Chinese never took any cities that the French took from the Vietnamese. French held Tonkin firmly. Chinese suffered much more casulaties. Chinese never forced the French out of North Viet Nam. Some part of Chinese land even got annexed into Vietnam. China had to surrender its claim of Viet Nam to France. If Chinese military could not defeat the French and force them out of North Viet Nam, what was the point of Chinese military in North Viet Nam? Just to sustain casualties? All in all, the French military completely humiliated the Chinese

 

[Wholegrain]

Chinese military expedition in North Viet Nam was a total failure. Chinese never took any cities that the French took from the Vietnamese. French held Tonkin firmly. Chinese suffered much more casulaties. Chinese never forced the French out of North Viet Nam. Some part of Chinese land even got annexed into Vietnam. China had to surrender its claim of Viet Nam to France. If Chinese military could not defeat the French and force them out of North Viet Nam, what was the point of Chinese military in North Viet Nam? Just to sustain casualties? All in all, the French military completely humiliated the Chinese

You want to keep going on about casulaties? The French slaughtered thousands of Vietnamese first in Cochinchina, then in Tonkin and all throughout its rule it slaughtered and humiliated Vietnamese who tried to revolt. The Vietanmese death toll was the highest, more than Chinese and French dead during the invasion of Tonkin and then France's pacification of Tonkin.

After all, since Vietnam suffered more casulaties than France in the first Indochina war and more casulaties than America in the Vietnam war, that means Vietnamese were defeated and humiliated according to your views.

Treaty of Tientsin, ARTICLE ONE

The High Contracting Parties will fix by a special convention the conditions under which wrongdoers will be extradited between China and Annam. Chinese colonists or former soldiers who live peaceably in Annam, earning their living by agriculture, industry or commerce and whose conduct is above reproach, shall enjoy the same security for their persons and their goods as French protégés.

Whoops, no Vietnamese allowed to stay on China's side of the border.

 

[faithfulguy]

France INVADED China in the Pescadores and Taiwan, and wanted to turn the Pescadores into the French version of Hong Kong. The indemnity demand was also not just to make money, it was because France wanted to make China admit that it started the war at Bac Le, not when war was actually declared when France attacked Chinese soil.

China first managed to defeat their attempted conquest of Taiwan, and then force them to withdraw from Taiwan and the Pescadores without admitting fault for starting the war through the dropped indemnity.

French casulaties were minimal compared to China like how Soviet casulaties were minimal compared to Afghans but they got completely screwed by the mujahideen, and in the American Civil War, the north suffered more casulaties even though in won the war. Casualty count means nothing, if it does, then that means America won the Vietnam War.

China forced the collapsed of the Jules Ferry government in France, and did not withdraw from Tonkin until Japan and Russia started threatening to join France. France's goal was to evict all Chinese forces from Tonkin, conquer Taiwan and the annex the Pescadores and make China pay an indemnity, all via military force.

France militarily failed in its goals. China would not have withdrawn if not threatened by Japan and Russia joining the war. the withdrawl was voluntary and not because France militarily forced China out.

Japan also managed to conquer Taiwan within sixth months in 1895 while France failed to advance beyond a single city in Taiwan, Keelung in eight months. The French military was a gigantic failure for a western "great power".

Since Napoleon, the French army has been a joke. The Germans sacked Paris again and again. And the French were the only western power not able to score a complete victory over China like how the British and Japanese did when China was down in the gutter in the latter half of 19th century.

However, they did manage to conquer Vietnam. This shows how weak and pathetic Vietnam was.

Chinese military expedition in North Viet Nam was a total failure. Chinese never took any cities that the French took from the Vietnamese. French held Tonkin firmly. Chinese suffered much more casulaties. Chinese never forced the French out of North Viet Nam. Some part of Chinese land even got annexed into Vietnam. China had to surrender its claim of Viet Nam to France. If Chinese military could not defeat the French and force them out of North Viet Nam, what was the point of Chinese military in North Viet Nam? Just to sustain casualties? All in all, the French military completely humiliated the Chinese

Can you get any more pathetic? Why cheer for one invader over another. Is Vietnam a ***** that allow everyone to take a turn? I don't view Vietnam that way but your analogies equates Vietnam to a ***** that cheer for everyone to have a turn.

 

[faithfulguy]

On the side note, I was guessing that the thread

Why India Will Displace China as Global Growth Engine

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/china-...china-global-growth-engine.html#ixzz2W4dVm0ZQ

will be a multi page trolling thread and it will be locked in a day or two on the post #2 of that thread. It took 3 days and 15 pages before it was locked

 

[Malaya]

NBI final report on Balintang shooting submitted to PNoy
By Camille Diola (philstar.com) | June 13, 2013

MANILA, Philippines - Justice Secretary Leila de Lima announced Thursday that the National Bureau of Investigation's (NBI) final report on the Taiwanese fisherman's fatal shooting off Bataan province last May 9 has been submitted to President Benigno Aquino III.

De Lima said that the report was submitted to the President after the results of the NBI probe were consolidated with the findings of the Taiwanese team's investigation.

She confirmed in a television interview that the NBI recommends the filing of criminal charges against the Philippine Coast Guard (PCG) personnel for the death of 65-year-old Taiwanese fisherman Hung Shih-Cheng.

De Lima said that the NBI also recommends the filing of charges against the personnel of the Bureau of Fisheries and Aquatic Resources who, together with PCG, manned the MCS-3001 ship when its crew fired at the Taiwanese fishing vessels off Balintang Channel last May 9.

She said that administrative charges will also be filed against government officials, whom she failed to identify.

She clarified that the NBI's recommendations and findings were not due to Taiwanese pressure.

The Philippines earlier claimed that the incident happened within its territory while Taiwan said that the shooting occurred in the overlapping exclusive economic zones of the two countries.

The NBI completed the report on Thursday and submitted it to the justice department, which subsequently passed the report to President Aquino. The justice secretary said that she has already given her recommendations on the report to Aquino.

De Lima said that the report contains the names of the PCG personnel involved in the shooting incident.

She said that she was still waiting for Aquino's clearance for the full public disclosure of the report.

The NBI, meanwhile, said that Taiwan has asked for a copy of the final report through a Taiwan Economic and Cultural Office representative who flew from Taipei to Manila on Thursday.

"I think I made it clear to them, until we get hold of the copy we cannot give them any information," NBI Deputy Director Virgilio Mendez said in a radio interview.

NBI final report on Balintang shooting submitted to PNoy | Headlines, News, The Philippine Star | philstar.com

 

[EastSea]

Since Napoleon, the French army has been a joke. The Germans sacked Paris again and again. And the French were the only western power not able to score a complete victory over China like how the British and Japanese did when China was down in the gutter in the latter half of 19th century.

However, they did manage to conquer Vietnam. This shows how weak and pathetic Vietnam was.



Can you get any more pathetic? Why cheer for one invader over another. Is Vietnam a ***** that allow everyone to take a turn? I don't view Vietnam that way but your analogies equates Vietnam to a ***** that cheer for everyone to have a turn.

no need to comment.

 

[Wholegrain]

Remember, this was the country which Vietnam was a slave to.

Vietnam was attacked by one country and entirely colonized, China was attacked by all major powers at the same time and never lost its independence.

no need to comment.

 

[Malaya]

De Lima: NBI recommended raps vs PCG in shooting of Taiwanese fisherman
Mark Merueñas, GMA News
June 13, 2013

Justice Secretary Leila de Lima has confirmed that criminal and administrative charges have been recommended by the National Bureau of Investigation against Philippine Coast Guard personnel embroiled in the May 9 fatal shooting of a Taiwanese fisherman in disputed waters in northern Philippines.

"I confirmed in an interview here in Madrid that the NBI report is now with the President and that the NBI has recommended the filing of charges against the PCG personnel involved in the incident," De Lima told reporters in a text message on Thursday.

De Lima is currently in Madrid, Spain attending the World Congress Against Death Penalty.

"But what exactly are the charges, I did not and cannot disclose yet pending the President's clearance," she added.

De Lima also assured the public that the Taiwanese investigators "had no influence" on the NBI's probe results.

"Hopefully, the conclusions from both sides would jibe or are not that different," the Justice chief said.

Last Tuesday, the NBI – which conducted a probe both in Manila and Taiwan – submitted its report to De Lima, who in turn transmitted it to President Benigno Aquino III.

When sought for details on the NBI report, NBI Deputy Director Virgilio Mendez told reporters: "Sorry, I am not privy to answer your question. It is beyond me to comment about the case now."

Mendez, however, said the Taiwan government has transmitted to them several documents that the NBI requested, like translated and authenticated copies of Taiwan's ballistics exam results and autopsy report.

"I don't know if it's part of the documents transmitted to us by the Taiwan Economic and Cultural Office," Mendez said, referring to a copy of the murder complaint filed by the daughter of the victim in Taiwan.

The NBI had earlier said it needed to obtain a copy of the complaint so the agency could include it in its final report on the incident.

PCG will issue statement soon

Sought for comment, PCG spokesperson Armand Balilo told GMA News Online in a phone interview that they will issue a statement after they have received an official communication from the Justice Department.

“Magre-react kami ‘pag may official communication na. Ngayon kasi [ay] wala pa,” Balilo said.

Taiwanese Hung Shih-cheng, 65, was killed during the May 9 incident at the Balintang Channel near the Luzon Strait when coast guards sprayed bullets at his boat, claiming that the fisherman attempted to ram a ship owned by the Philippines' Bureau of Fisheries and Aquatic Resources.

Along with other sanctions, Taiwan had ordered a freeze in the hiring of Filipinos in protest of what it considered a "cold blooded" murder.

The incident also prompted parallel investigations by both Manila and Taipei. — with a report from Rouchelle Dinglasan/LBG/RSJ/KG, GMA News

De Lima: NBI recommended raps vs PCG in shooting of Taiwanese fisherman | News | GMA News Online

 

[EastSea]

Remember, this was the country which Vietnam was a slave to.

Vietnam was attacked by one country and entire colonized, China was attacked by all major powers at the same time and never lost its independence.

The cake is stating clearly: "Chine". The picture is symbol for you.

 

[Wholegrain]

The cake is stating clearly: "Chine". The picture is symbol for you.

Anything that China was or is, it was or is above Vietnam. What do you call a slave or the dog of a victim?

 

[EastSea]

Anything that China was or is, it was or is above Vietnam. What do you call a slave or the dog of a victim?

You are slaves of Mongolian, Man Chu, Japan. Slave didn't have nothing, just dreamed. Today, Taiwanese are living in Protectorate of USA, do you know it ?