Taiwan begins F-16V modernisation effort

[The Accountant]

Pakistan has 76 (eventually 84) F-16.
Taiwan: US$1.85 billion/142units= $13,028,169.01 per unit

Assuming all PAF F-16 could technically and economically be brought up to V standard, that's US$0.99 billion for 76, or US$1.09 billion for 84.

The Taiwanese deal doesn't include any missiles either.

Recent AIM-120C-7 (pending) sales, from DSCA (there are some more AIM-120C7 ordered, but rolled into a larger package with either aircraft or avariety of munitions or both, so these are not so price indicative):

Malaysia (2015): 10 AIM-120C7 AMRAAM Missiles and associated equipment, parts and logistical support for an estimated cost of $21 million. Ave.= US$2.1/missile
Japan (2014): 17 AIM-120C7 Advanced Medium Range Air-to-Air Missiles (AMRAAM), 2 Captive Air Training Missiles (CATMs), associated equipment, parts and logistical support for estimated cost of $33 million. Ave.= US$1.74/missile
Norway (2014): 36 AIM-120C-7 AMRAAM Missiles, 8 Captive Air Training Missiles (CATMs), and associated equipment, parts, training and logistical support for an estimated cost of $80 million. Ave.= US$1.82/missile
Turkey (2014): 145 AIM-120C-7 AMRAAM missiles and associated equipment, parts, training and logistical support for an estimated cost of $320 million. Ave.= US$2.21/missile
Singapore (2013): 100 AIM-120C7 Advanced Medium Range Air-to-Air Missiles (AMRAAM) and associated equipment, parts, training and logistical support for an estimated cost of $210 million. Ave.= US$2.1/missile
Switserland (2010): 150 AIM-120C-7 Advanced Medium Range Air-to-Air Missiles (AMRAAM), 6 AIM-120C-7 Telemetry Missiles, and associated parts, equipment, training and logistical support for a complete package worth approximately $358 million. Ave.= US$2.29/missile
Bahrain (2009): 25 AIM-120C-7 Advanced Medium Range Air-to-Air Missiles (AMRAAM) and associated equipment, parts and services at an estimated cost of $74 million. Ave.= US$2.96/missile
Chile (2009): 100 AIM-120C-7 Advanced Medium-Range Air-to-Air Missiles and associated parts, equipment and logistical support worth approximately $145 million. Ave.= US$1.45/missile
Jordan (2009): 85 AIM-120C-7 Advanced Medium Range Air-to-Air Missiles (AMRAAM) and associated equipment, parts and logistical support at an estimated cost of $131 million. Ave.= US$1.54/missile
Finland (2008): 300 AIM-120C-7 Advanced Medium Range Air-to-Air Missiles (AMRAAM), and associated equipment and services. The total value, if all options are exercised, could be as high as $435 million. Ave.= US$1.45/missile

Ave of Ave's: US$ 1.97 million per missile
Note: this gives equal weight to all packages, while it is likely that some states require more 'associated parts, equipment, training and logistics support' than others e.g. because the state of their air forces (negative effect) or because they already operate some AIM-120 variant (positive effect). Also, some states have small orders and others large orders and one could expect large orders to be a bit less expensive than small ones (economies of scale, bargaining positions)

Total missiles=984
Total Value= US$ 1.807 billion
Ave.: US$ 1.84 million per missile
Note: this smooths differences in country support needs.

Average order
missiles= 184
value= US$ 329 million
Ave.: US$ 1.79 million per missile
Note: This smooths differences in order size

Best case: US$0.99b for 76 upgrades to F16V + 184 AIM120C7 missiles at US$1.79m per missile = US$1.32b
Worst case: US$1.09b for 84 upgrade to F16V + 184 AIM120C7 missiles at US$1.84m per missile = US$1.43b

As compared to: "it will cost us around 1.5 billion usd".
Source: https://defence.pk/threads/taiwan-begins-f-16v-modernisation-effort.473018/#ixzz4W6KLtNhE
By comparision, the only Su-35S export thusfar is to China:

November 20, 2015: "China and Russia have finally signed a contract estimated to be worth $2 billion for the purchase of 24 Russian-made Sukhoi Su-35 multirole fighter jets... The purchasing price per aircraft is estimated at $83 to 85 million."
http://thediplomat.com/2015/11/confirmed-china-buys-24-advanced-fighter-jets-from-russia/

AFAIK I don't know if this includes weapons and services but venture a guess that it does (see articles below). It may also include a premium due the fact that Chine seeks to obtain better jet engines and has a record of reverse engineering Russian imports.

Other estimates for this aircraft range from US$40 million to $65 million (estimated).

18/08/2009: The Russian Defense Ministry and the Sukhoi aircraft maker signed on Tuesday a contract on the delivery of 64 Su fighters to the Russian Air Force. The contract, signed during the MAKS-2009 air show in Zhukovsky near Moscow, stipulates the delivery of 48 Su-35 by 2015, and 12 Su-27SM and four Su-30M2 multirole fighters by 2011. The value of the contract was not disclosed, but according to open sources, the cost of a Su-35 fighter, billed as "4++ generation using fifth-generation technology," is estimated at up to $65 million. Russia also plans to export at least 160 Su-35 fighters to several countries including India, Malaysia and Algeria."
https://web.archive.org/web/20090821150710/http://en.rian.ru/russia/20090818/155845491.html

This ties together information from prior article, listed below.

13 August 2009: "Customer fighters were Russian Air Force. They plan to buy 48 Su-35 fighters, four Su-30M2 and 12 Su-27SM. One Su-35 costs more than $ 40 million, and the Su-27 and Su-30 - more than 30 million. Except the aircraft, the Russian Air Force will order additional equipment and weapons, so the contract costs around three billion dollars."
http://lenta.ru/news/2009/08/13/sukhoi/

This is just the aircraft, and do Russian Air Force (not export)

8 Jul, 2008: "Russian fighter maker Sukhoi hoped to impress military officials from Venezuela, Malaysia and China not only with the abilities of its new aircraft, but also by its price....Experts estimate the price of the new Su-35 at around 65 million dollars and predict strong demand"
https://www.rt.com/business/sukhoi-shows-off-its-new-super-agile-fighter/

This may be with additional equipment and/or weapons, as the article is export oriented.

In 2001, Sukhoi partnered with Avibras to submit the Su-27M for the US$700 million tender that would see at least twelve aircraft delivered to the Brazilian Air Force.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhoi_Su-35#Failed_bids
That's US$58 million per SU-27M aircraft.

ANYWAY, given the Chinese deal an amount of between US$1.32b US$1.43b would buy Pakistan 16-17 Su-35. The choice is between 1 squadron Su-35 plus or 4-5 squadrons of F-16 asd is, or 4-5 squadrons of F-16V.

Great analysis, very objective and to the point ...

Sir you coming into the thread means now we will be having real learning. I always respect your posts and are very informative ...

Sir just few things to highlight for your comments and further guidance...

1) I don't think all of the Pakistan's F16 can go directly go to V upgrade as some of our fighters were not MLUed and are at adf standards and hence extra expense in terms of structural upgrades. So any estimates how much increased cost will it be ?

2) Even if we get them upgraded to V but still we have only 18 with CFT and hence loiter time is limited hence they will still be flying principally in our own airspace where we already have support from ground radars AWACS and link 17 therefore I can compromise on AESA radar (which is main updgrade of V as per my understanding which is limited).

3) No matter what we say most of our F16s are almost 30 years old and now we have extracted too much out of them ... if we do not switch to another high-end 4th generation platform than there is a risk that we might come to situation where we do not have any fighter other than JF17 .... If we start negotiations on SU35 now then it will take atleast 5 years of induction and even more time for complete training ... so at that time our F16 might become too old ...

4) The biggest hurdle is unpredictable attitude of USA ... They always left us in middle of battle ... they did it 90s at the time of pessler ammedment ... they did in 1971 at the time of Bagladesh ... They did it during war on terror ... So we can't keep on relying on them for long ...

@Penguin By the way, if you would have been decision maker what would have you chosen as an option ??? Given the limited budget of something around 1.5 billion USD ...

 

[gambit]

I assume what you said is based on your numerous hours of experience in battle? Which is none?

None is enough for Mr. Bengali.

For every squardon of fighter in the air, you can only have one mission,...

This is similar to what happened back in Desert Storm.

We were sent to hunt mobile SCUDs and the entire effort was fruitless. Completely wasted. Those mobile SCUD launchers were so poorly manned that they were tactically useless, but because they were politically explosive, we had to waste time arming/re-arming our fighters for that mission.

Granted, an F-16 is not a vehicle designed to be mobile on desert soil. The mobile SCUD launcher can pretty much go wherever it want while the F-16 is confined to places such as an airbase or a long road such as a highway/interstate type of road.

Still, an F-16 configured for air-ground sortie do not require a lot of runway or highway to operate...

In the F-16 community, we call our jet the perfect guerrilla fighter of air combat. Small, agile, and lethal just enough to make life difficult for the enemy.

 

[Penguin]

1) I don't think all of the Pakistan's F16 can go directly go to V upgrade as some of our fighters were not MLUed and are at adf standards and hence extra expense in terms of structural upgrades. So any estimates how much increased cost will it be ?

It would have to be assessed if it is technically and economically feasible. Some planes may simply be too old or worn to both MLU and V.

In 2010 Pakistan also joined the MLU group. It decided to upgrade 35 of its older block 15 airframes with an option for another 10. The first airframe to be converted was test flown in November of 2011 with initial work being performed by Lockheed, while the remainder of the fleet is to be upgraded by TAI in Ankara, Turkey.

Is it worth all the effort and the money?
Because of the F-16s unpredicted heavier airframe load in the Royal Netherlands Air Force, the aircraft's airframe needs to be overhauled apart from the Mid Life Update to allow the airframe to complete 3,500 flight hours. Keeping the aircraft operational until its 5,000th flight hour make the costs involved in the airframe repair / overhaul affordable and acceptable, making expensive airframe "re-inspections" unnecessary. The costs of the airframe repair / overhaul only form a quarter of the costs involved in the Mid Life Update.

The costs involved in the ASIP maintenance program result in increased operational capabilities as well as an increased life expectancy for the F-16 aircraft. These costs are lower than the price of a new aircraft. After the F-16s Mid Life Update modernization program, the F-16 can compete again with the most advanced fighters of today's world. An increase of both technical and economical life expectancy justify the cost for the Mid Life Update program.

The air inlet structure of the Block 10 aircraft will be modified, due to the fact that the current inlet of Block 10 aircraft does not allow for the implementation of hard points to carry equipment such as the Forward Looking Infrared (FLIR) pod.

http://www.f-16.net/f-16_versions_article2.html

The cost of MLU-ing Thai F-16A/B block 15 to near C/D block 50 standard apparently was US$700m for 18 aircraft. However, the resulting unit cost of US$ 39m seems rather high. So, the deal probably includes a lot of other things besides the MLU.
http://www.militaryaerospace.com/articles/2012/07/thai-f16-upgrade.html

The Pakistan Air Force (PAF) and Turkish Aerospace Industries (TAI) are negotiating a deal to upgrade 74 F-16s (which include a new batch from Jordan). Although the PAF would prefer to implement the upgrade in Pakistan, it expects reluctance from the U.S. – cue Turkey.

A Turkish procurement official told Defense News that the PAF has not yet defined the upgrade, but the implementation process is expected to cost around $100 million U.S.

http://quwa.org/2016/05/24/pakistan-planning-upgrade-f-16s/
This boils down to US$1.53m per aircraft., which seems much more inline with the fact that those used F-16 cost around US$15m each.

2) Even if we get them upgraded to V but still we have only 18 with CFT and hence loiter time is limited hence they will still be flying principally in our own airspace where we already have support from ground radars AWACS and link 17 therefore I can compromise on AESA radar (which is main updgrade of V as per my understanding which is limited).

Please note that most F-16 users (USAF included!) DO NOT have F-16 aircraft with CFTs. CFTs alone can't be all that expensive. Besides, there are other solutions to extending range/loiter time than CFTs
http://defense-update.com/products/c/F-16-CFT.htm
http://defense-update.com/products/f/f-16-fuel.htm

3) No matter what we say most of our F16s are almost 30 years old and now we have extracted too much out of them ... if we do not switch to another high-end 4th generation platform than there is a risk that we might come to situation where we do not have any fighter other than JF17 .... If we start negotiations on SU35 now then it will take atleast 5 years of induction and even more time for complete training ... so at that time our F16 might become too old ...

True, the aircraft are old. But what matters is how many hours they have actually flown and under what conditions, as well as how well they were maintained. New aircraft invariably are more expensive and so fewer can be had. Consider that Su-35 total production thus far is 58, so it may take some time for enough aircraft are delivered, even if they can be afforded. More JF-17, upgrades thereof, or various alternatives - likely including Chinese aircraft - need to be looked at as well. By the time Su-35 deliveries could occur, you would simply ride out the F-16s remaining life expectancy and replace it. If you do not choose Su-35, there is no reason to wait with F-16 upgrade, and you ride out the remaining life expectancy with more aircraft that have greater credibility. And then replace it.

4) The biggest hurdle is unpredictable attitude of USA ... They always left us in middle of battle ... they did it 90s at the time of pessler ammedment ... they did in 1971 at the time of Bagladesh ... They did it during war on terror ... So we can't keep on relying on them for long ...

And yet, dispite all friendliness with China, Pakistan keeps relying on the US... if only because some important portions of its inventory are US produced and will need US support to remain viable. IMHO China still has to prove itself as friend to Pakistan in similarly dire situations as you mentioned. And, clearly, there are also things that Pakistan itself can do to promote it being seen are a worthwhile and reliable military partner, or to do business with.

 

[UKBengali]

I assume what you said is based on your numerous hours of experience in battle? Which is none?

You are expecting the F-16V will come up all at once and face the J-20 heads on, Then the J-20 will be able to destroy them all in 2 days, but do you think this is really the case?

What @SinoSoldier said is "deterence" what if Taiwan does not send their F-16 against the Chinese J-20 and force the J-20 to come look for it? It will drawn both number and power away from providing escort for 4.5 gen fighter/bomber and CAS, It will basically force J-20 to either fly each mission protecting the bombers, or have them leave the bomber unguard and go look for the viper.

For every squardon of fighter in the air, you can only have one mission, either your mission sorties is to look for and destroy F-16 on ground or on the air, or you are using the same asset to protect the bomber and control the battlefield on the ground, you cannot do both in a single sorties. By not sending in F-16 like you are expecting, it wil ldrag on the war basically forever, as the goal is not to win a war, but to prolong it until the other side see no point of continuing.

In war, each side responsible to their own tactics, it's a fatal flaw to think the enemy will act like what you thought they will, or this kind of "Wishful" thinking usually lead to diaster.

Plus, J-20 is not even in production mode now, how many J-20 can China produce in 3 years time when they are not even gear toward full rate production? Give you a hint, US prodution for F-35 is 200 at 7 years mark from their IRP (Initial rate Production) in 2010, and US fighter production technology is second to none, how many J-20 can China produce in 2020 when J-20 is not even in IRP and still in Protoype?

The point is that China has won if the F-16 is hiding in shelters/forests in the ground or not engaging the attacking planes.

If the F-16 does not engage the J-20, why should the J-20 go looking for it at all? J-20 will stay and protect the strike aircraft like J-11/FC-1. The F-16 will either play no part in the war as Taiwan is pummelled by China or will have to engage the J-11-FC-1 that are attacking Taiwan. When it comes to face them it will be taken out by the J-20.
Let us not even talk about the destruction of the shelters and airfields by Chinese missiles and planes to give the F-16 some hope.

So how on earth did you get the "Professional" tag as you clearly have little idea what you are talking about?

PS - Please get your facts straight as regards status of J-20 There are currently 12 LRIP planes around. Expect 12-24 LRIP more to be produced this year before J-20 goes into full production mode. Anything from 36-72 a year will be produced between 2018-2020.

 

[jhungary]

The point is that China has won if the F-16 is hiding in shelters/forests in the ground or not engaging the attacking planes.

How do you get to this conclusion?

You do know what you are saying right? What you are saying is that China can afford to ignore the F-16 Viper. Does that make sense?

If the F-16 does not engage the J-20, why should the J-20 go looking for it at all? J-20 will stay and protect the strike aircraft like J-11/FC-1. The F-16 will either play no part in the war as Taiwan is pummelled by China or will have to engage the J-11-FC-1 that are attacking Taiwan. When it comes to face them it will be taken out by the J-20.
Let us not even talk about the destruction of the shelters and airfields by Chinese missiles and planes to give the F-16 some hope.

lol, do you know how fighter escort works?

You do know you don't just send a single J-20 to escort a flight of J-11 or whatever you use to bomb the Land based target. Unless you have similar amount of J-20 for your bomber, then you will have to limit your bombing mission because everytime your bomber goes up, you will need to chop a team or more than 1 team of J-20 to escort them.

And you don't think it will drag on the war?

Also, how many J-20 you are planning on using to escort a flight of bombers? Do remember this, China can only send up a certain amount of J-20 to try to escort the bombers (As you will need to send both Bomber and Fighter up from the same base), but Taiwan can put up as much as their airfield allowed, For example, if a single aerodome can hold and send 40 planes in one sortie, Then for China, you will have at most 20 J-20 and 20 assorted bomber, while Taiwan can put up 40 F-16. Do you think 20 J-20 can win over 40 F-16 with SAM?

AIr War does not fight according to your own plan, this is why the German lost the Battle of Britain, they keep thinking they can push the Brits by overcoming and overwhelming their fighter, but in reality, a combination of airloss, aircrew loss and logistic . it's not like what you said When it comes to face them it will be taken out by the J-20.

When the F-16 do come out, the fight will be by their term, I don't know what will actually happen, I just know they will not simply be taken out by the Chinese J-20, it's quite stupid to send something to a known failure. Nobody in the sane mind does that. When the two met, you either know you have enough number to win an engagement, or you know for sure the other side does not have the number, in anyway, you only ever send your plane up when you know there is a chance you can win. So, basically, your "F-16 will all get shot down by J-20 when they met" is quite honestly, stupid comment, because if it would the Taiwanese would not send up the F-16 in the first place.

So how on earth did you get the "Professional" tag as you clearly have little idea what you are talking about?

That's because you know NOTHING about Air War. Or war in general.

You are even more crazy than the people saying China can rush and conquer New Delhi in 48 hours, just by looking at what you said.

PS - Please get your facts straight as regards status of J-20 There are currently 12 LRIP planes around. Expect 12-24 LRIP more to be produced this year before J-20 goes into full production mode. Anything from 36-72 a year will be produced between 2018-2020.

Dude, you are the one to have to get the fact right, currently there are 8 prototype and 4 LRIP J-20, LRIP (Limited/Low Rate Initial Production) is designed to test the plane throughtly. Meaning they are still in the testing phase and most LRIP at this stage seldom exceed 10 planes per year . This phase is very different than the IRP status, which IRP goes up to equip squadrons for Initial Operation Capability

You do know even F-35 reaches IOC back in 2015, they are still making 50 IRP per year, right? And China is 2 steps behind (IOC and IRP) regarding the Production development and you are thinking you can get 72 J-20 in 3 years? LOL.

 

[jhungary]

None is enough for Mr. Bengali.


This is similar to what happened back in Desert Storm.

We were sent to hunt mobile SCUDs and the entire effort was fruitless. Completely wasted. Those mobile SCUD launchers were so poorly manned that they were tactically useless, but because they were politically explosive, we had to waste time arming/re-arming our fighters for that mission.

Granted, an F-16 is not a vehicle designed to be mobile on desert soil. The mobile SCUD launcher can pretty much go wherever it want while the F-16 is confined to places such as an airbase or a long road such as a highway/interstate type of road.

Still, an F-16 configured for air-ground sortie do not require a lot of runway or highway to operate...

In the F-16 community, we call our jet the perfect guerrilla fighter of air combat. Small, agile, and lethal just enough to make life difficult for the enemy.

lol, you are really expecting these people to understand the true situation we experienced in combat? I don't think they will ever, EVERY know..........lol.

For them, fighting a war is easy, they dictate the term on what the enemy is going to do, I will kill this, I will destroy that, if only war is actually this easy.

Warfighting 101 - NEVER expect your enemy to behave like you expecting them to be. You are fighting with another human being, and man do unexpected thing when they are desperate situation human behavior is unpredictible.

But for them, fighting a war is like fighting in a computer games, lol. That is they way they thing about war...........

If only PLA think like them, but maybe that's too much to ask.

 

[Penguin]

So how on earth did you get the "Professional" tag as you clearly have little idea what you are talking about?

To all: a substantive debate - in which discussants differ in their opinions, for else there would not be a debate - should not include personal remarks. Tags are awarded here by forum, individuals have little say over that. If you have a problem with someone's tag, go complain with management but please refrain from low blows.

So, basically, your "F-16 will all get shot down by J-20 when they met" is quite honestly, stupid comment, because if it would the Taiwanese would not send up the F-16 in the first place.

That's because you know NOTHING about Air War. Or war in general.

You are even more crazy than the people saying China can rush and conquer New Delhi in 48 hours, just by looking at what you said.

Could we please avoid the namecalling?

Thank you all for your cooperation and effort to keep this a fine forum.

 

[jhungary]

To all: a substantive debate - in which discussants differ in their opinions, for else there would not be a debate - should not include personal remarks. Tags are awarded here by forum, individuals have little say over that. If you have a problem with someone's tag, go complain with management but please refrain from low blows.


Could we please avoid the namecalling?

Thank you all for your cooperation and effort to keep this a fine forum.

Well, that's the definition of the word "Crazy" when you have an absurd idea about something, otherwise known as unrealistic and detach from reality, I don't see calling a person who call his own fantasy being "crazy" is a name calling. This is the exact definition of the word "Crazy", ie unrealistic or crazy idea, this is in no way demeaning.

 

[Penguin]

Well, that's the definition of the word "Crazy" when you have an absurd idea about something, otherwise known as unrealistic and detach from reality, I don't see calling a person who call his own fantasy being "crazy" is a name calling. This is the exact definition of the word "Crazy", ie unrealistic or crazy idea, this is in no way demeaning.

You catch my drift, don't you ;-)

 

[UKBengali]

Well, that's the definition of the word "Crazy" when you have an absurd idea about something, otherwise known as unrealistic and detach from reality, I don't see calling a person who call his own fantasy being "crazy" is a name calling. This is the exact definition of the word "Crazy", ie unrealistic or crazy idea, this is in no way demeaning.

Please learn to write English without spelling and grammatical errors if you want to be taken seriously.

 

[jhungary]

Please learn to write English without spelling and grammatical errors if you want to be taken seriously.

lol, this isthe ultimate loser talk, and my English is fine, unlike yours.

 

[UKBengali]

lol, this isthe ultimate loser talk, and my English is fine, unlike yours.

You can neither spell or use grammar correctly.

I am guessing that you have had enough exposure to English to not have an excuse, and so this only leaves one conclusion about your abilities.

 

[jhungary]

You can neither spell or use grammar correctly.

when you use "Neither" you need to use "Nor", you cannot use a negative follow by a positive.

http://thewritepractice.com/how-to-use-either-neither-or-and-nor-correctly/

Maybe someone need to take some grammar lesson himself before comment on someone's else. not that I care, as I am not a Grammar Nazi

I am guessing that you have had enough exposure to English to not have an excuse, and so this only leaves one conclusion about your abilities.

and it should be

I am guessing that you have had enough exposure to English (I would have said "you had exposed to enough english tho) to not have an excuse, so (no and, can also down with so too.) this only leave (not purals, you use "this" instead of "these") one conclusion about your ability. (My ability as a whole, not my many abilities)

That only mean I do not spell/proof read, I can do them if I want to, as I said, I can proof read all your post here and see who had it worse? But seeing I am posting here, not taking an English Exam, I don't feel the need to.

But then I am not the one that attack some one else grammar and itself wrote crap English, I cannot think of another word but "hypocrite" to describe you.

And that show how trust worthy your words are. Let me leave you with a proverb.

"Those who live in glass house should not throw stone" I never said I wrote perfect English, but if you are pointing out (or rather try to point out) someone else's mistake, be sure that you are several grade better than the man before you speak. And not make this many mistake yourself.

 

[gambit]

Please learn to write English without spelling and grammatical errors if you want to be taken seriously.

This is a military oriented forum.

If you are going to be childish enough to criticize someone's English ability, those of us who are veterans will rip you for your lack of military service.

Regarding Taiwan's F-16s...

If the F-16 does not engage the J-20...

Source: https://defence.pk/threads/taiwan-begins-f-16v-modernisation-effort.473018/page-2#ixzz4WIecwlVS

This is where your ignorance is evident. Ignorance of military history and warfare in general.

Taiwan's F-16s do not have to engage the J-20. The Taiwanese can fight an air guerrilla warfare the way the North Vietnamese Air Force did against the Americans back in the Vietnam War. For convenience's sake, we will use the acronym NVAF.

The NVAF had a small fleet of MIG-21s. What the NVAF did was conduct 'slash and dash' attacks against heavily bomb laden fighter-bombers who cannot maneuver as configured. But as soon as a few of these fighter-bombers were attacked, the entire flight discarded their bombs so they could maneuver to survive. That was all the NVAF needed.

China do not have the bombardment capability of the US vis-a-vis Rolling Thunder and Linebacker I and II. All the Taiwanese F-16 have to do is fight the way the NVAF and the RAF did.

 

[UKBengali]

This is a military oriented forum.

If you are going to be childish enough to criticize someone's English ability, those of us who are veterans will rip you for your lack of military service.

.

Not only is the dude @jhungary unable to write English to an acceptable level, he starts talking about air warfare like he is some sort of expert. From what I gather he was in the army and now should stick to that area.

He seriously thinks that Taiwanese F-16s will present any more than a tiny nuisance to China. If this is not going to get you mocked, then I do now know what will.

How will the F-16 engage the SU-30/FC-1 that are obliterating it's military assets?
They will be picked up by AWACs as soon as they take off and will soon have a
ramjet powered AAM from a J-20 heading their way.