Taiwan begins F-16V modernisation effort

[Zarvan]

The F-16V shares the same outer mould-line of the standard Fighting Falcon, but features a number of advanced systems including an AESA radar. Source: Lockheed Martin

Taiwan has begun the process of upgrading its Lockheed Martin F-16 fighting Falcon combat aircraft to the latest F-16V configuration, with the first jets arriving at the Aerospace Industrial Development Corp (AIDC) facility in Taichung, it was reported on 17 January.

The first four of the Republic of China Air Force's (RoCAF's) F-16A/Bs to be retrofitted were flown to the facility in the northwest of the island the day before the disclosure of the commencement of the project, which was made by national media.

Lockheed Martin had not responded to an IHS Jane's request for conformation and additional details at the time of writing.

First unveiled at the Singapore Airshow in 2012, the F-16V features the Northrop Grumman AN/APG-83 active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar (also known as the Scalable Agile Beam Radar [SABR] and derived from the F-16E/F Block 60 AN/APG-80); a new Raytheon mission computer; the Link 16 datalink; modern cockpit displays; an enhanced electronic warfare system; and a ground collision avoidance system.

The F-16 original equipment manufacturer, Lockheed Martin, was awarded USD272 million to install 142 F-16V aircraft upgrade kits that had already been contracted at a cost of USD1.85 billion. In May 2016 it was reported that AIDC was building a hangar at Taichung that could accommodate up to 24 aircraft per year going through the process. Work will be performed in Taiwan and in the United States, and is expected to be complete by 31 May 2022.

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http://www.janes.com/article/67001/taiwan-begins-f-16v-modernisation-effort

 

[Hassan Guy]

We need those.

 

[The Accountant]

No way ... it will cost us around 1.5 billion usd ... in that price we can get a squadron of su35 with weapon package ... we can use it to counter rafael with lot of other options ... either we need 5th generation or some other more hi.tech goodie ...

 

[Akasa]

Impressive and a bit overdue. This will give Taiwanese F-16 fleets a much-needed boost to offset their Chinese counterparts without breaking the bank to purchase new jets.

 

[The Accountant]

Impressive and a bit overdue. This will give Taiwanese F-16 fleets a much-needed boost to offset their Chinese counterparts without breaking the bank to purchase new jets.

I dont think that it will give enough boost to taiwan to face china ... taiwan at minimum needs f35 if not f22 ... j20 china fiwlding in 2020 will provide air superiority to china

 

[Ultima Thule]

We need those.

 

[Akasa]

I dont think that it will give enough boost to taiwan to face china ... taiwan at minimum needs f35 if not f22 ... j20 china fiwlding in 2020 will provide air superiority to china

Taiwan doesn't need to match toe-to-toe with China in order to deter or hamper potential military aggression. F-16Vs would be able to take on newer-generation Chinese jets (i.e. J-10B/C, J-11B, etc.) and would pose a significant challenge on China's ability to quickly establish (and maintain) air superiority.

If the Chinese lose enough assets to these F-16Vs, that is sufficient to undermine any potential action taken against Taiwan, no matter how disproportionate the eventual casualty/strength is.

 

[UKBengali]

Taiwan doesn't need to match toe-to-toe with China in order to deter or hamper potential military aggression. F-16Vs would be able to take on newer-generation Chinese jets (i.e. J-10B/C, J-11B, etc.) and would pose a significant challenge on China's ability to quickly establish (and maintain) air superiority.

If the Chinese lose enough assets to these F-16Vs, that is sufficient to undermine any potential action taken against Taiwan, no matter how disproportionate the eventual casualty/strength is.

You have missed the point as these F-16s will be taken out by J-20s before the J-10/J-11s need to get involved.
Pure waste of money on Taiwan's part.

 

[The Accountant]

Taiwan doesn't need to match toe-to-toe with China in order to deter or hamper potential military aggression. F-16Vs would be able to take on newer-generation Chinese jets (i.e. J-10B/C, J-11B, etc.) and would pose a significant challenge on China's ability to quickly establish (and maintain) air superiority.

If the Chinese lose enough assets to these F-16Vs, that is sufficient to undermine any potential action taken against Taiwan, no matter how disproportionate the eventual casualty/strength is.

China will nott put j10 and j11 for initial sttrike ... Role will be assigned to j20 and j31 (if inducted) ...air superiority will e achieved in couple of days then j10 and j11 will come in for ground attack under strike role ...

 

[Akasa]

You have missed the point as these F-16s will be taken out by J-20s before the J-10/J-11s need to get involved.
Pure waste of money on Taiwan's part.

China will nott put j10 and j11 for initial sttrike ... Role will be assigned to j20 and j31 (if inducted) ...air superiority will e achieved in couple of days then j10 and j11 will come in for ground attack under strike role ...

You are assuming that a "Shock-n-awe"-type attack would be successful in eliminating 100% of Taiwan's air assets. History has shown that such an ideal outcome is very difficult, if not impossible, to achieve. Even shock-n-awe itself failed to destroy 100% of Iraq's air defense systems.

This is why 4th generation aircraft are then used to "mop up" whatever remaining ROCAF fighters there are. This becomes much more difficult when F-16Vs (which will outclass the J-10A, J-11A, and Su-27SKs) come into the equation.

 

[UKBengali]

You are assuming that a "Shock-n-awe"-type attack would be successful in eliminating 100% of Taiwan's air assets. History has shown that such an ideal outcome is very difficult, if not impossible, to achieve. Even shock-n-awe itself failed to destroy 100% of Iraq's air defense systems.

This is why 4th generation aircraft are then used to "mop up" whatever remaining ROCAF fighters there are. This becomes much more difficult when F-16Vs (which will outclass the J-10A, J-11A, and Su-27SKs) come into the equation.

We are talking about knocking out the F-16s and not the SAM systems.

After 2 days of combat, all Taiwanese F-16s will either be shot-down, destroyed on the ground or hidden away to stop the Chinese from destroying them.

Taiwan is just wasting precious resources as even very soon(~2020-2022 onwards), US intervention will be futile to stop a Chinese assault.

 

[Penguin]

No way ... it will cost us around 1.5 billion usd ... in that price we can get a squadron of su35 with weapon package ... we can use it to counter rafael with lot of other options ... either we need 5th generation or some other more hi.tech goodie ...

Rather three or four flights with a total of 12 to 24 Su-35 aircraft than 142 F-16V? In an Air Force fully oriented (logistically) at Western made aircraft. Mmmm, let me ponder the wisdom of that.

 

[The Accountant]

Rather three or four flights with a total of 12 to 24 Su-35 aircraft than 142 F-16V? In an Air Force fully oriented (logistically) at Western made aircraft. Mmmm, let me ponder the wisdom of that.

No ... i was talking about pakistan ... as hassan guy suggested the same upgrade for pakistan ... so these f16s even in V configuration will be slightly lower to rafael ... or even if they match then we will have to separately negotiate for latest version of AIM9 and AMRAAM to come close to rafael ... meanwhile if we opt for AESA in our vipers india will definitly go for upgradation of su30mki so still we will be at backfoot ...

My point is if get one squadron of su35 then we can counter rafael and mki atleast in our own airspace with the help awacs and ground radars ...

Furthermore getting new aircrafts with different will also give much needed flexibility to PAF in terms of loiter time and mission profile ...

 

[Penguin]

No ... i was talking about pakistan ... as hassan guy suggested the same upgrade for pakistan ... so these f16s even in V configuration will be slightly lower to rafael ... or even if they match then we will have to separately negotiate for latest version of AIM9 and AMRAAM to come close to rafael ... meanwhile if we opt for AESA in our vipers india will definitly go for upgradation of su30mki so still we will be at backfoot ...

My point is if get one squadron of su35 then we can counter rafael and mki atleast in our own airspace with the help awacs and ground radars ...

Furthermore getting new aircrafts with different will also give much needed flexibility to PAF in terms of loiter time and mission profile ...

Pakistan has 76 (eventually 84) F-16.
Taiwan: US$1.85 billion/142units= $13,028,169.01 per unit

Assuming all PAF F-16 could technically and economically be brought up to V standard, that's US$0.99 billion for 76, or US$1.09 billion for 84.

The Taiwanese deal doesn't include any missiles either.

Recent AIM-120C-7 (pending) sales, from DSCA (there are some more AIM-120C7 ordered, but rolled into a larger package with either aircraft or avariety of munitions or both, so these are not so price indicative):

Malaysia (2015): 10 AIM-120C7 AMRAAM Missiles and associated equipment, parts and logistical support for an estimated cost of $21 million. Ave.= US$2.1/missile
Japan (2014): 17 AIM-120C7 Advanced Medium Range Air-to-Air Missiles (AMRAAM), 2 Captive Air Training Missiles (CATMs), associated equipment, parts and logistical support for estimated cost of $33 million. Ave.= US$1.74/missile
Norway (2014): 36 AIM-120C-7 AMRAAM Missiles, 8 Captive Air Training Missiles (CATMs), and associated equipment, parts, training and logistical support for an estimated cost of $80 million. Ave.= US$1.82/missile
Turkey (2014): 145 AIM-120C-7 AMRAAM missiles and associated equipment, parts, training and logistical support for an estimated cost of $320 million. Ave.= US$2.21/missile
Singapore (2013): 100 AIM-120C7 Advanced Medium Range Air-to-Air Missiles (AMRAAM) and associated equipment, parts, training and logistical support for an estimated cost of $210 million. Ave.= US$2.1/missile
Switserland (2010): 150 AIM-120C-7 Advanced Medium Range Air-to-Air Missiles (AMRAAM), 6 AIM-120C-7 Telemetry Missiles, and associated parts, equipment, training and logistical support for a complete package worth approximately $358 million. Ave.= US$2.29/missile
Bahrain (2009): 25 AIM-120C-7 Advanced Medium Range Air-to-Air Missiles (AMRAAM) and associated equipment, parts and services at an estimated cost of $74 million. Ave.= US$2.96/missile
Chile (2009): 100 AIM-120C-7 Advanced Medium-Range Air-to-Air Missiles and associated parts, equipment and logistical support worth approximately $145 million. Ave.= US$1.45/missile
Jordan (2009): 85 AIM-120C-7 Advanced Medium Range Air-to-Air Missiles (AMRAAM) and associated equipment, parts and logistical support at an estimated cost of $131 million. Ave.= US$1.54/missile
Finland (2008): 300 AIM-120C-7 Advanced Medium Range Air-to-Air Missiles (AMRAAM), and associated equipment and services. The total value, if all options are exercised, could be as high as $435 million. Ave.= US$1.45/missile

Ave of Ave's: US$ 1.97 million per missile
Note: this gives equal weight to all packages, while it is likely that some states require more 'associated parts, equipment, training and logistics support' than others e.g. because the state of their air forces (negative effect) or because they already operate some AIM-120 variant (positive effect). Also, some states have small orders and others large orders and one could expect large orders to be a bit less expensive than small ones (economies of scale, bargaining positions)

Total missiles=984
Total Value= US$ 1.807 billion
Ave.: US$ 1.84 million per missile
Note: this smooths differences in country support needs.

Average order
missiles= 184
value= US$ 329 million
Ave.: US$ 1.79 million per missile
Note: This smooths differences in order size

Best case: US$0.99b for 76 upgrades to F16V + 184 AIM120C7 missiles at US$1.79m per missile = US$1.32b
Worst case: US$1.09b for 84 upgrade to F16V + 184 AIM120C7 missiles at US$1.84m per missile = US$1.43b

As compared to: "it will cost us around 1.5 billion usd".
Source: https://defence.pk/threads/taiwan-begins-f-16v-modernisation-effort.473018/#ixzz4W6KLtNhE
By comparision, the only Su-35S export thusfar is to China:

November 20, 2015: "China and Russia have finally signed a contract estimated to be worth $2 billion for the purchase of 24 Russian-made Sukhoi Su-35 multirole fighter jets... The purchasing price per aircraft is estimated at $83 to 85 million."
http://thediplomat.com/2015/11/confirmed-china-buys-24-advanced-fighter-jets-from-russia/

AFAIK I don't know if this includes weapons and services but venture a guess that it does (see articles below). It may also include a premium due the fact that Chine seeks to obtain better jet engines and has a record of reverse engineering Russian imports.

Other estimates for this aircraft range from US$40 million to $65 million (estimated).

18/08/2009: The Russian Defense Ministry and the Sukhoi aircraft maker signed on Tuesday a contract on the delivery of 64 Su fighters to the Russian Air Force. The contract, signed during the MAKS-2009 air show in Zhukovsky near Moscow, stipulates the delivery of 48 Su-35 by 2015, and 12 Su-27SM and four Su-30M2 multirole fighters by 2011. The value of the contract was not disclosed, but according to open sources, the cost of a Su-35 fighter, billed as "4++ generation using fifth-generation technology," is estimated at up to $65 million. Russia also plans to export at least 160 Su-35 fighters to several countries including India, Malaysia and Algeria."
https://web.archive.org/web/20090821150710/http://en.rian.ru/russia/20090818/155845491.html

This ties together information from prior article, listed below.

13 August 2009: "Customer fighters were Russian Air Force. They plan to buy 48 Su-35 fighters, four Su-30M2 and 12 Su-27SM. One Su-35 costs more than $ 40 million, and the Su-27 and Su-30 - more than 30 million. Except the aircraft, the Russian Air Force will order additional equipment and weapons, so the contract costs around three billion dollars."
http://lenta.ru/news/2009/08/13/sukhoi/

This is just the aircraft, and do Russian Air Force (not export)

8 Jul, 2008: "Russian fighter maker Sukhoi hoped to impress military officials from Venezuela, Malaysia and China not only with the abilities of its new aircraft, but also by its price....Experts estimate the price of the new Su-35 at around 65 million dollars and predict strong demand"
https://www.rt.com/business/sukhoi-shows-off-its-new-super-agile-fighter/

This may be with additional equipment and/or weapons, as the article is export oriented.

In 2001, Sukhoi partnered with Avibras to submit the Su-27M for the US$700 million tender that would see at least twelve aircraft delivered to the Brazilian Air Force.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhoi_Su-35#Failed_bids
That's US$58 million per SU-27M aircraft.

ANYWAY, given the Chinese deal an amount of between US$1.32b US$1.43b would buy Pakistan 16-17 Su-35. Or 22 at US$65m each. So, the choice is between 1 squadron Su-35 plus or 4-5 squadrons of F-16 asd is, or 4-5 squadrons of F-16V.

 

[jhungary]

We are talking about knocking out the F-16s and not the SAM systems.

After 2 days of combat, all Taiwanese F-16s will either be shot-down, destroyed on the ground or hidden away to stop the Chinese from destroying them.

Taiwan is just wasting precious resources as even very soon(~2020-2022 onwards), US intervention will be futile to stop a Chinese assault.

I assume what you said is based on your numerous hours of experience in battle? Which is none?

You are expecting the F-16V will come up all at once and face the J-20 heads on, Then the J-20 will be able to destroy them all in 2 days, but do you think this is really the case?

What @SinoSoldier said is "deterence" what if Taiwan does not send their F-16 against the Chinese J-20 and force the J-20 to come look for it? It will drawn both number and power away from providing escort for 4.5 gen fighter/bomber and CAS, It will basically force J-20 to either fly each mission protecting the bombers, or have them leave the bomber unguard and go look for the viper.

For every squardon of fighter in the air, you can only have one mission, either your mission sorties is to look for and destroy F-16 on ground or on the air, or you are using the same asset to protect the bomber and control the battlefield on the ground, you cannot do both in a single sorties. By not sending in F-16 like you are expecting, it wil ldrag on the war basically forever, as the goal is not to win a war, but to prolong it until the other side see no point of continuing.

In war, each side responsible to their own tactics, it's a fatal flaw to think the enemy will act like what you thought they will, or this kind of "Wishful" thinking usually lead to diaster.

Plus, J-20 is not even in production mode now, how many J-20 can China produce in 3 years time when they are not even gear toward full rate production? Give you a hint, US prodution for F-35 is 200 at 7 years mark from their IRP (Initial rate Production) in 2010, and US fighter production technology is second to none, how many J-20 can China produce in 2020 when J-20 is not even in IRP and still in Protoype?