Taiwan Armed Forces

[TheTruth]

Absolutely.

‘Taiwanese’ identity hits record level - Taipei Times

I can tell you as Taiwanese, this is due to fear and angst at a perceived PRC threat. We know what language we speak and write, and our history.

Our main interest is in keeping peace in East Asia, and it's constantly frustrated by Japan's attempts to enrage Korea and the Mainland.

 

[Aepsilons]

US analyst urges Japan to sell Taiwan submarines


A US defense expert is urging Japan to sell Soryu-class submarines equipped with US communications and weapons systems to Taiwan.

“Washington should make Taiwan’s submarine program a priority for the bilateral security relationship,” American Enterprise Institute defense policy analyst Michael Mazza said.

In a study published this week by institute, Mazza said US President Barack Obama’s administration should directly inform Beijing that it views China’s military modernization “with great concern.”

He said the nature of the buildup makes it a central national security concern for the US.

The buildup, Mazza said, is largely focused on enabling the Chinese People’s Liberation Army to defeat the US military in battle, to subjugate democratic neighbors like Taiwan and to deny the US free access to the Western Pacific and Asian waters.

“Chinese military modernization threatens to undermine an Asian order that has been key to prosperity and security in both Asia and the US,” he said.

Mazza said he believes China is threatening the peace in the South China Sea on which US economic and security interests depend.

In the East China Sea, Mazza said, China is showing a “reckless disregard” for the maintenance of peace and is challenging the US’ most important regional alliance.

Mazza said the US must adopt a more robust regional posture and contain the Chinese military within the first island chain.

“Doing so will minimize the Chinese military’s ability to pose a direct threat to the US and effectively threaten the US’ allies,” he said.

Mazza made the case for two strategies in particular that he considers worth pursuing.

First, he said that US partners South Korea, Japan, Taiwan, Australia and India all want to upgrade their submarine fleets.

US strategists, Mazza said, should consider the value of an allied submarine “picket line” that would allow for enhanced tracking of Chinese subs exiting and re-entering the South China Sea, and position the allies to more easily close strategic chokepoints in the event of conflict.

“Partner nations could divide geographic responsibilities, with Taiwan taking primary responsibility for patrolling waters in and around the Taiwan Strait and the US doing so in the South China Sea itself,” he said.

To encourage greater interoperability, Mazza said the US should support Japan’s efforts to sell its submarines abroad and lobby for US industrial participation in indigenous submarine programs.

In particular, he said, Washington should assist Taiwan with its indigenous production plans or push Tokyo to sell Soryu-class submarines to Taipei.

“Where direct cooperation might be too sensitive — between Southeast Asians and Taiwan for example — the US can abet implicit coordination,” Mazza said.

Mazza’s study followed testimony by US Under Secretary of Defense for Acquisition, Technology and Logistics Frank Kendall before a hearing of the US House Armed Services Committee that China’s military modernization had undermined US superiority.

“We’re at risk and the situation is getting worse,” Kendall said.

Earlier this week, the former intelligence chief of the US Navy’s Pacific Fleet, Captain James Fanell, said in Honolulu that Beijing was “rejuvenating” and preparing for a military conflict.



US analyst urges Japan to sell Taiwan submarines - Taipei Times

 

[Carlosa]

Yet you said they see themselves as Taiwanese because China threatens them.

Not really, what I said, which is different, was: "The more noise that China makes, the stronger the Taiwanese feel about their Taiwanese identity."

I can tell you as Taiwanese, this is due to fear and angst at a perceived PRC threat. We know what language we speak and write, and our history.
.

Hmmmm that's not what I read about the reasons for the Taiwanese identity. I think that's your personal opinion, which of course I respect, but I think is not shared by most Taiwanese.

US analyst urges Japan to sell Taiwan submarines


A US defense expert is urging Japan to sell Soryu-class submarines equipped with US communications and weapons systems to Taiwan.

“Washington should make Taiwan’s submarine program a priority for the bilateral security relationship,” American Enterprise Institute defense policy analyst Michael Mazza said.

In a study published this week by institute, Mazza said US President Barack Obama’s administration should directly inform Beijing that it views China’s military modernization “with great concern.”

He said the nature of the buildup makes it a central national security concern for the US.

The buildup, Mazza said, is largely focused on enabling the Chinese People’s Liberation Army to defeat the US military in battle, to subjugate democratic neighbors like Taiwan and to deny the US free access to the Western Pacific and Asian waters.

“Chinese military modernization threatens to undermine an Asian order that has been key to prosperity and security in both Asia and the US,” he said.

Mazza said he believes China is threatening the peace in the South China Sea on which US economic and security interests depend.

In the East China Sea, Mazza said, China is showing a “reckless disregard” for the maintenance of peace and is challenging the US’ most important regional alliance.

Mazza said the US must adopt a more robust regional posture and contain the Chinese military within the first island chain.

“Doing so will minimize the Chinese military’s ability to pose a direct threat to the US and effectively threaten the US’ allies,” he said.

Mazza made the case for two strategies in particular that he considers worth pursuing.

First, he said that US partners South Korea, Japan, Taiwan, Australia and India all want to upgrade their submarine fleets.

US strategists, Mazza said, should consider the value of an allied submarine “picket line” that would allow for enhanced tracking of Chinese subs exiting and re-entering the South China Sea, and position the allies to more easily close strategic chokepoints in the event of conflict.

“Partner nations could divide geographic responsibilities, with Taiwan taking primary responsibility for patrolling waters in and around the Taiwan Strait and the US doing so in the South China Sea itself,” he said.

To encourage greater interoperability, Mazza said the US should support Japan’s efforts to sell its submarines abroad and lobby for US industrial participation in indigenous submarine programs.

In particular, he said, Washington should assist Taiwan with its indigenous production plans or push Tokyo to sell Soryu-class submarines to Taipei.

“Where direct cooperation might be too sensitive — between Southeast Asians and Taiwan for example — the US can abet implicit coordination,” Mazza said.

Mazza’s study followed testimony by US Under Secretary of Defense for Acquisition, Technology and Logistics Frank Kendall before a hearing of the US House Armed Services Committee that China’s military modernization had undermined US superiority.

“We’re at risk and the situation is getting worse,” Kendall said.

Earlier this week, the former intelligence chief of the US Navy’s Pacific Fleet, Captain James Fanell, said in Honolulu that Beijing was “rejuvenating” and preparing for a military conflict.



US analyst urges Japan to sell Taiwan submarines - Taipei Times

There is no doubt that its vital for Japan that Taiwan stays independent because once China takes over Taiwan, the Ryukiu islands are next, plus, it breaks the first island chain, so its imperative that both Japan and USA will intervene and if USA hesitates, Japan's intervention will surely push USA to intervene, at least that's my take.

 

[Aepsilons]

Hmmmm that's not what I read about the reasons for the Taiwanese identity. I think that's your personal opinion, which of course I respect, but I think is not shared by most Taiwanese.

Look at Taiwan's perception of Japan, its at 76% favorability. One of the highest.

There is no doubt that its vital for Japan that Taiwan stays independent because once China takes over Taiwan, the Ryukiu islands are next, plus, it breaks the first island chain, so its imperative that both Japan and USA will intervene and if USA hesitates, Japan's intervention will surely push USA to intervene, at least that's my take.

Precisely, mi amigo. Taiwan has been independent of the 'Mainland' since Japan took over Taiwan in 1894. That's over 121 years of independent identity from the 'mainland'. Taiwan, in my opinion, is truly independent of China mainland, and will remain so in the indefinite future.

 

[Carlosa]

Look at Taiwan's perception of Japan, its at 76% favorability. One of the highest.

Of course, like I said, Japan is the role model for Taiwan. If Taiwan were to not be constrained by the chinese threat, there would be an immediate and very close military and economic alliance, no doubt about that.

Precisely, mi amigo. Taiwan has been independent of the 'Mainland' since Japan took over Taiwan in 1894. That's over 121 years of independent identity from the 'mainland'. Taiwan, in my opinion, is truly independent of China mainland, and will remain so in the indefinite future.

Absolutely !!!!!!

 

[Aepsilons]

Absolutely !!!!!!

I can understand if Taiwan was only independent for say 5 years, or 10 year. But come on, amigo, the mainlanders are just a wee bit unpractical in saying that Taiwan will be forced to be united with Mainland? Taiwan hasn't been part of Mainland since 1894, and even then they didn't really have full control of Taiwan in the first place only in the coastal areas. In fact, it was when Taiwan was under Japanese rule that the whole of the island was conquered and the Imperial Japanese Army crushed the defeated the Aborigines in Taiwan, and encouraged complete development of the island --- from a provincial backwater to a world-class Imperial crown colony, and an industrial state, doubled the population, had a literacy rate of 96% all within just 40 years of being a Japanese colony. Impressive yes?

Taiwan , in my eyes, is independent, has been independent, and will remain independent. And China will not have the means to seize it by force without drawing in international intervention.

 

[TheTruth]

I can understand if Taiwan was only independent for say 5 years, or 10 year. But come on, amigo, the mainlanders are just a wee bit unpractical in saying that Taiwan will be forced to be united with Mainland? Taiwan hasn't been part of Mainland since 1894, and even then they didn't really have full control of Taiwan in the first place only in the coastal areas. In fact, it was when Taiwan was under Japanese rule that the whole of the island was conquered and the Imperial Japanese Army crushed the defeated the Aborigines in Taiwan, and encouraged complete development of the island --- from a provincial backwater to a world-class Imperial crown colony, and an industrial state, doubled the population, had a literacy rate of 96% all within just 40 years of being a Japanese colony. Impressive yes?

Taiwan , in my eyes, is independent, has been independent, and will remain independent. And China will not have the means to seize it by force without drawing in international intervention.

That's a little too simple. Loyalty to Chinese civilization has never died in Taiwan.

 

[Carlosa]

I can understand if Taiwan was only independent for say 5 years, or 10 year. But come on, amigo, the mainlanders are just a wee bit unpractical in saying that Taiwan will be forced to be united with Mainland? Taiwan hasn't been part of Mainland since 1894, and even then they didn't really have full control of Taiwan in the first place only in the coastal areas. In fact, it was when Taiwan was under Japanese rule that the whole of the island was conquered and the Imperial Japanese Army crushed the defeated the Aborigines in Taiwan, and encouraged complete development of the island --- from a provincial backwater to a world-class Imperial crown colony, and an industrial state, doubled the population, had a literacy rate of 96% all within just 40 years of being a Japanese colony. Impressive yes?

Taiwan , in my eyes, is independent, has been independent, and will remain independent. And China will not have the means to seize it by force without drawing in international intervention.

Absolutely, and only 14% of the island's population are mainland chinese, as per Wikipedia: the ethnic groups of Taiwan may be roughly divided among the "Taiwanese" (84%, including Hakka), mainland Chinese (14%), and indigenous peoples (2%),

That's a little too simple. Loyalty to Chinese civilization has never died in Taiwan.

The Singaporean chinese also have loyalty to chinese civilization from a cultural perspective, but politically they are happy to be an independent country.

 

[TheTruth]

The Singaporean chinese also have loyalty to chinese civilization from a cultural perspective, but politically they are happy to be an independent country.

Singapore's history is different. They were a diaspora group who founded an incredible country. The ROC has always considered itself to be a part of China.

 

[yoshi.oda]

US analyst urges Japan to sell Taiwan submarines


A US defense expert is urging Japan to sell Soryu-class submarines equipped with US communications and weapons systems to Taiwan.

“Washington should make Taiwan’s submarine program a priority for the bilateral security relationship,” American Enterprise Institute defense policy analyst Michael Mazza said.

In a study published this week by institute, Mazza said US President Barack Obama’s administration should directly inform Beijing that it views China’s military modernization “with great concern.”

He said the nature of the buildup makes it a central national security concern for the US.

The buildup, Mazza said, is largely focused on enabling the Chinese People’s Liberation Army to defeat the US military in battle, to subjugate democratic neighbors like Taiwan and to deny the US free access to the Western Pacific and Asian waters.

“Chinese military modernization threatens to undermine an Asian order that has been key to prosperity and security in both Asia and the US,” he said.

Mazza said he believes China is threatening the peace in the South China Sea on which US economic and security interests depend.

In the East China Sea, Mazza said, China is showing a “reckless disregard” for the maintenance of peace and is challenging the US’ most important regional alliance.

Mazza said the US must adopt a more robust regional posture and contain the Chinese military within the first island chain.

“Doing so will minimize the Chinese military’s ability to pose a direct threat to the US and effectively threaten the US’ allies,” he said.

Mazza made the case for two strategies in particular that he considers worth pursuing.

First, he said that US partners South Korea, Japan, Taiwan, Australia and India all want to upgrade their submarine fleets.

US strategists, Mazza said, should consider the value of an allied submarine “picket line” that would allow for enhanced tracking of Chinese subs exiting and re-entering the South China Sea, and position the allies to more easily close strategic chokepoints in the event of conflict.

“Partner nations could divide geographic responsibilities, with Taiwan taking primary responsibility for patrolling waters in and around the Taiwan Strait and the US doing so in the South China Sea itself,” he said.

To encourage greater interoperability, Mazza said the US should support Japan’s efforts to sell its submarines abroad and lobby for US industrial participation in indigenous submarine programs.

In particular, he said, Washington should assist Taiwan with its indigenous production plans or push Tokyo to sell Soryu-class submarines to Taipei.

“Where direct cooperation might be too sensitive — between Southeast Asians and Taiwan for example — the US can abet implicit coordination,” Mazza said.

Mazza’s study followed testimony by US Under Secretary of Defense for Acquisition, Technology and Logistics Frank Kendall before a hearing of the US House Armed Services Committee that China’s military modernization had undermined US superiority.

“We’re at risk and the situation is getting worse,” Kendall said.

Earlier this week, the former intelligence chief of the US Navy’s Pacific Fleet, Captain James Fanell, said in Honolulu that Beijing was “rejuvenating” and preparing for a military conflict.



US analyst urges Japan to sell Taiwan submarines - Taipei Times

Taiwan is friendly partner for Japan no reason why Japan and Taiwan cannot be allily partners. Japan and Taiwan were together in past, together again in future as partner and ally! I think the best way.

That's a little too simple. Loyalty to Chinese civilization has never died in Taiwan.

It is TheTruth.

 

[Gufi]

Number is important, you just pick the wrong number to focus on.

Actually infrastructure you pointed out is not what would be targeted. Shore batteries and runways, weapon depots and areas where tanks, transports, and other military related targets will be neutralised. With superior long range weapons you neutralise any major threats before your first boots land.
The main objective would be to target most air force targets to achieve air superiority before the first plane can fly. For that runways as well as planes would be targeted in a concentrated effort to reduce any air defence capabilities.
Also special forces and tactical strikes will follow long range missile strikes, further crippling the defensive abilities of Taiwan.
This part of the discussion you have clearly ignored in your analysis, and akin to the American invasions the lesson learnt is long range weapons can cripple armies before the first boot lands. And with the relatively short distance between the Mainland and Taiwan not much reaction time to do anything once things start. And troops landings can even be by sea and air because of the relatively short distance between the two.
I am in no way saying there should be war, but one should be realistic in their analysis.

 

[TheTruth]

Taiwan is friendly partner for Japan no reason why Japan and Taiwan cannot be allily partners. Japan and Taiwan were together in past, together again in future as partner and ally! I think the best way.

We just want peace in East Asia. PRC and Japan need to sort out their differences.

 

[Aepsilons]

Taiwan is friendly partner for Japan no reason why Japan and Taiwan cannot be allily partners. Japan and Taiwan were together in past, together again in future as partner and ally! I think the best way.

It may prove beneficial to both Japan and Taiwan to consider a quasi-defense pact, or at least one in which gives Japan ample room to consider the right of intervention in the event Taiwan is attacked or threatened by an enemy state.


There was an article on this opportunity via The Diplomat several months ago, it might benefit you to read it, perhaps you have read it already, perhaps not, but just read it. And maybe you can share your input later? Arigadou gozaimasu @yoshi.oda .


-----



Taiwan and Japan’s Collective Self-Defense


Having the chance to read up more on the subject, I am unsurprised to learn that Clint was correct (after all, he is our resident Japan expert). First, unlike Article 51 which provides nations with the inherent right to come to the aid of allies even if the states themselves are not directly threatened, the reinterpretation of Article 9 only allows Tokyo to come to the defense of allies if it can be tied directly to its own defense. As the vice president of New Komeito, LDP’s coalition partner, Kazuo Kitagawa explained: “Collective self-defense under international law means defending other countries without considering if that would infringe on one’s own security, but we see this as part of the self-defense of Japan.”

Second, because of pressure from New Komeito, the revision doesn’t explicitly give Japan the right to collective self-defense, but rather says that some actions that are permitted could be construed as collective self-defense.

The other point of disagreement was over where Japan would apply it. We all agreed that it would be applied to its alliance with the U.S., and possibly in certain actions related to the Korean Peninsula, such as shooting down North Korean ballistic missiles headed for the United States (South Korea once again reiterated after this revision that it opposes Japan intervening on the Korean Peninsula without its explicit approval).

I argued, however, that one of the unsaid aims of the revision was to give Japan the ability to intervene on behalf of Taiwan if the People’s Republic of China ever sought to seize the island by force. Clint and Ankit were highly skeptical that this was the case.

After reading up more on the new revision, I still believe that this is the case. For example, the Japan Times explains that under the reinterpretation, three conditions must be met to allow Japan to come to the aid of a partner nation:

“The attack on that country poses a clear danger to Japan’s survival or could fundamentally overturn Japanese citizens’ constitutional rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

“There is no other way of repelling the attack and protecting Japan and its citizens.

“The use of force is limited to the minimum necessary.”

Previously it reported that the final draft of the Cabinet document said Japan could intervene militarily “when an attack on a country that ‘has close relations’ with Japan ‘poses a clear danger of threatening our country’s existence and fundamentally overthrowing our people’s lives, freedom and right to pursue happiness.’”

This seems to apply to Taiwan. As The Diplomat has noted, no country in Northeast Asia has as close and friendly of relations with Japan as Taipei. Secondly, China conquering and occupying Taiwan would present about as clear a danger to Japan’s survival as any event short of an attack on Japan itself. The Senkaku Islands are roughly half the distance from Taiwan as they are from mainland China, which would allow Beijing to bring far more force to bear in an attack on them. It would also allow Beijing to approach the islands from roughly two different directions. Furthermore, Taiwan’s strategic location would greatly enhance China’s ability to interdict maritime shipping to and from Japan.

Thus, China’s occupation would be a threat to both Japan’s territorial integrity as well as the “lives, freedom and right to pursue happiness” of the Japanese people. If the PLA was in the midst of an invasion of Taiwan, it’s hard to imagine any other way of repelling the attack then through intervening in support of Taiwan. In any case, one of the examples openly being espoused as an example of when Japan would exercise collective self-defense is when a U.S. ship came under attack on the high seas. This would almost certainly happen if America intervened in support of Taiwan, which would allow Japan to join the fight.

Thus, I think at the very least Japan’s right of collective self-defense is meant to apply to a Chinese invasion of Taiwan, even if this is left unsaid for obvious diplomatic reasons.


Taiwan and Japan’s Collective Self-Defense | The Diplomat

 

[CCP]

We just want peace in East Asia. PRC and Japan need to sort out their differences.

Well, erase japan from the planet earth is one of our available option to sort out the difference/peace in East Asia. ( In my opinion it is the beast one)

japanese should really hope the US not to force China to choose that option.

 

[Aepsilons]