T-129 Atak & Turkish Attack Helicopter Programs

[Bilal.]

Apache is a heavy big chopper not suitable for mountains. Apache is a tank killer but used as insurgent killer not really ideal.

Insurgency is almost dead and with the fencing and fortifications being done on western borders it will go down to a level where it won’t require gunships and when on rear occasions it does even a Apache level helicopter can be used. Also we can have a comprehensive upgrade done on AH1Fs like Jordan and hand them to Frontier Corp paramilitary troops like we did with the old Type59 tanks for COIN duties.

The threat now is from eastern front where we will need heavy tank buster.

i dont agree that Apache is not suitable to mountaneous areas. Its maneuverability is more advanced than our Atak.

Operating cost is also a factor if needed on daily basis like what was the situation 5-10 years ago.

 

[Oublious]

i dont agree that Apache is not suitable to mountaneous areas. Its maneuverability is more advanced than our Atak.

It have problems by high ceiling 4000m+ high fully loaded, and expensive maintaining cost.

 

[UkroTurk]

It's all subjective going off pictures - to me it seems like T629 will have higher capacity than ATAK.
View attachment 638493

İt reminds me made in SAR attack heli which Türkiye considered to purchase. Both t629 and rooivolk are ugly as hell.

İts MTOW 8500kg as T629.

 

[-------]

İt reminds me made in SAR attack heli which Türkiye considered to purchase. Both t629 and rooivolk are ugly as hell.

İts MTOW 8500kg as T629.

You take that comment back! Rooivalk will always be a gorgeous babe for me, it should have won the ATAK competition, fackin frenches!

 

[Bismarck]

design may be ugly but it may also be more stealthy. Reminds me a bit of the Comanche

Comanche RAH-64 is an awesome aerodynamic stealth helicopter with a different rudder. I cant see similarities with the turkish one, which looks damn bulky and ugly.

From all angles still shit

I would redesign fuselage/Cockpit to curved not edged.

 

[mjting01]

Seems like T-129 will not have a long production run once the heavier more capable attack helicopters become operational.

There will always be a market for cheaper/lighter but almost as capable attack helicopter. I do not think that is the case. Else Cobras would have died long ago.

 

[Saithan]

Battleproven helicopters are appreciated. It would be stupid to trash what we’ve gained with Atak.

 

[Glass]

:/

 

[Khagan1923]

T-629 is being made for export by TAI not for the TSK. It is supposed to be a cheap, ITAR free alternative for countries looking to buy Helicopters but don't either have the budget to buy from the US, Europe(LOL) or Russia or are looking for a ITAR free product (which means no threat of not being able to repair and maintaine the choppers if you fall out of grace with certain countries) and maybe even both.

There is a reason Temel Kotil mentioned ITAR-free when he mentioned the T-629 for the first time late last year.

The TSK has no use for it, T-129 does already an wonderful job in COIN operations. It will continue to this job even after ATAK 2 has entered the inventory of the Land Forces, because one is more suited for COIN Operations in high and hot weather, like the South-East of Turkey or even Iraq, while the other is a heavy Attack Helicopter meant to hunt and destroy tanks and other armored vehicles in an conventional war equipped with MILDAR and UMTAS/MIZRAK Missiles (8-16) and a 30mm Cannon.

There is no use for T-629 in Turkey's inventory, because it is not made for the TSK, TSK has no input in the project. There is no contract for the project, but there is one for ATAK 2 (10t-12t).

So arguing about looks of a cheapish (cheaper than an AH-64, AH-1Z, Tiger) helicopter meant to be advertised to potential export destinations, which one those may be, is ridiculous, those countries don't care how it looks as long as it performance up to their standards and costs less then what the americans or russians offer them. And it is free of the threat of sanctions.

T-629 packaged with Mildar will still cost less than one single AH-1Z and especially way less then an AH-64 with Longbow radar.

There are dozens of countries who need to modernize their helicopter fleet but can't either pay the money, or don't have access to the hardware, or just plain don't wan't to pay the money or have a sword hang over them everytime they make a decision that might anger the country of origin (US,Russia, Europe).

 

[xbat]

T-629 is being made for export by TAI not for the TSK. It is supposed to be a cheap

i dont think so, it is a new platform that have everything what t129 has. so why needed a new platform? because licence agreement between italy and turkey addresses italy as a source of transmission and other rotor parts(may be some others) . there are some restrictions to install new equipment on ATAK because of its small air frame.
so problem would be solved with this new heli.

 

[Armchair]

I wonder if Turkey can pull off the T-629 or Atak with local engines by the Pakistan contract deadline. PA really needs helis ASAP given what is happening at the borders.

 

[Khagan1923]

i dont think so, it is a new platform that have everything what t129 has. so why needed a new platform? because licence agreement between italy and turkey addresses italy as a source of transmission and other rotor parts(may be some others) . there are some restrictions to install new equipment on ATAK because of its small air frame.
so problem would be solved with this new heli.

If this was the case the orders for further T-129 would have stopped, to my knowledge deliveries are still on going. Another 24 T-129B2 will be delivered over the next 2 years with further orders likely (Option package). T-129 will probably reach around 90-100 Helicopters in the Fleet (Army,Jandarma, Police) atm we have 57(+1 crashed in Syria through engine failure), which means around until those orders are fullfilled ATAK-2 will be close. Until you make that switch on the production line from T-129 to T-629 months if not even years will pass, combined with testing, weapons testing, TSK testing. Let us also not forget TS-1400 is not even ready yet for production, not a single flight test was done.

There is no reason to dilute our fleet with three different Helicopters, the T-629 has no purpose for the Army, T-129 is excellent at COIN which was the reason it was choosen in the first place, ATAK-2 will be primarly focused on Anti-Armor duties. So what will the T-629 do? Other than be a waste of money, don't forget this a TAI project not an Government issued one, there is no contract like there was one for T-129 and Heavy Attack Helicopter.

And Akar's reaction tells me enough, he wasn't even aware that the T-629 existed when he first saw it(you can pretty much understand it from his words).

Nor was the T-629 ever mentioned by Government officials, why not? Because they don't want it. Because they don't need it. Because they know until the T-629 becomes even serial production ready to make a impact for the TSK, ATAK 2 will be around the corner. Why waste resources on an Helicopter that in 12-24 months will have no real purpose and will become obsolete.

That is my opionion on the matter, until I see a Government official utter the words T-629 and TSK from their mouths together in a sentence I'm going to stand by my position.

 

[xbat]

TS1400 engine will fly in this year with T625 utility heli, T629 will fly within this year too, may be T629 will fly with TS1400, who knows?

 

[Saithan]

I wonder if Turkey can pull off the T-629 or Atak with local engines by the Pakistan contract deadline. PA really needs helis ASAP given what is happening at the borders.

Wouldn’t 40-50 tb2 help solve the problem ?

 

[Armchair]

Wouldn’t 40-50 tb2 help solve the problem ?

No, it doesn't fulfill the role PA is looking to fill. Mountain warfare against an enemy with SAMs and an air force. But I can sure find use for TB-2s in other places.