Swat Valley excavations - Aryans?

[xairhossi]

Protohistoric graveyards of the Swat Valley, Pakistan: new light on funerary practices and absolute chronology

• Massimo Vidale (a1) and Roberto Micheli (a2)
• • DOI: https://doi.org/10.15184/aqy.2017.23
  • Published online: 04 April 2017

"The protohistoric graveyards of north-western Pakistan were first excavated in the 1960s, but their chronology is still debated, along with their relationship to broader regional issues of ethnic and cultural change. Recent excavation of two graveyards in the Swat Valley has provided new dating evidence and a much better understanding both of grave structure and treatment of the dead. Secondary burial was documented at Udegram, along with the use of perishable containers and other objects as grave goods. The complexity of the funerary practices reveal the prolonged interaction between the living and the dead in protohistoric Swat."

https://www.cambridge.org/core/jour...e-chronology/12E80F85D723D017F17D4B5EAB2CD71E

The University of Padua in Italy have also released an academic paper on it, but it's in Italian.
http://www.unipd.it/download/file/fid/51323

Apparently they have also managed to extract ancient DNA samples from the Late Bronze Age and Iron Age and also may publish a paper on them. Would be very interesting for the history of the region, especially the Aryan invasion.

@save_ghenda @Kambojaric @Talwar e Pakistan

 

[Kabira]

Likely to be early aryans with little local ancestry. Only thing is they take way to much to release results after extracting DNA, hopefully this year.

 

[kathiyawadi khamir]

Likely to be early aryans with little local ancestry. Only thing is they take way to much to release results after extracting DNA, hopefully this year.

Funny, whenever i mention Aryan on Any Indian forum i get bombed by posts aaying Aryan drividian theory is fake lie created by British people.

 

[Spring Onion]

Funny, whenever i mention Aryan on Any Indian forum i get bombed by posts aaying Aryan drividian theory is fake lie created by British people.

I ALWAYS SAY THAT Dravidian history is far richer than Aryans so why on earth Indians still carry this Aryan phobia and are shy of owning Dravidian roots.

 

[PaklovesTurkiye]

@Max @Kaptaan @xxx[{::::::::::::::::::>

 

[xairhossi]

Likely to be early aryans with little local ancestry. Only thing is they take way to much to release results after extracting DNA, hopefully this year.

True, the time period also coincides with the Rig Vedic age.
And even the ones extracted from Yamnaya could be modeled as almost half Eastern Euro and half Pakistani (HGDP Pathan, Sindhi, Balochi etc.) based on their mixed mode oracles on gedmatch. Expect these ones to be even more 'local' shifted.

Btw does anyone know what happened to the Rakhigarhi samples? A Korean team was given the task of extracting ancient DNA from the Rakhigarhi site and they were going to publish a paper on it last year, but a year has passed and nothing has been published. Some are saying that the Indian government is deliberately withholding the samples, since it would disprove the OIT (Out of India theory) and would be a blow to Hindu nationalist ideology.
Does any Indian member have any information about this?

 

[Kambojaric]

True, the time period also coincides with the Rig Vedic age.
And even the ones extracted from Yamnaya could be modeled as almost half Eastern Euro and half Pakistani (HGDP Pathan, Sindhi, Balochi etc.) based on their mixed mode oracles on gedmatch. Expect these ones to be even more 'local' shifted.

Btw does anyone know what happened to the Rakhigarhi samples? A Korean team was given the task of extracting ancient DNA from the Rakhigarhi site and they were going to publish a paper on it last year, but a year has passed and nothing has been published. Some are saying that the Indian government is deliberately withholding the samples, since it would disprove the OIT (Out of India theory) and would be a blow to Hindu nationalist ideology.
Does any Indian member have any information about this?

This was the last I heard about the Rakhigarhi site dna testing (http://eurogenes.blogspot.se/2016/03/rakhigarhi-ancient-dna-paper-probably.html). I wouldnt be surprised if the Indian authorities do however withhold the info if it proves counter productive to the "OIT".

On the OP super interesting, thanks for sharing. We can learn so much from this site, especially in this day and age when our neighbour to the east is on full "claim every bit of South Asian history as ours" mode, the most recent example of which is demanding the Indus Valley Civilization as it is known throughout the world be changed to Saravasti. It would also be interesting to see how the Kalash fit in, in all of this. Given their isolation in the mountains of the north, and their proto indo-iranic religion, sites like these may provide greater insight into their history.

 

[Mamluk]

A Korean team was given the task of extracting ancient DNA from the Rakhigarhi site and they were going to publish a paper on it last year, but a year has passed and nothing has been published. Some are saying that the Indian government is deliberately withholding the samples, since it would disprove the OIT (Out of India theory) and would be a blow to Hindu nationalist ideology.
Does any Indian member have any information about this?

That's not very unlikely. They are completely silent on the issue!

 

[adil_minhas]

I ALWAYS SAY THAT Dravidian history is far richer than Aryans so why on earth Indians still carry this Aryan phobia and are shy of owning Dravidian roots.

You know why Jana G.

 

[xairhossi]

This was the last I heard about the Rakhigarhi site dna testing (http://eurogenes.blogspot.se/2016/03/rakhigarhi-ancient-dna-paper-probably.html). I wouldnt be surprised if the Indian authorities do however withhold the info if it proves counter productive to the "OIT".

On the OP super interesting, thanks for sharing. We can learn so much from this site, especially in this day and age when our neighbour to the east is on full "claim every bit of South Asian history as ours" mode, the most recent example of which is demanding the Indus Valley Civilization as it is known throughout the world be changed to Saravasti. It would also be interesting to see how the Kalash fit in, in all of this. Given their isolation in the mountains of the north, and their proto indo-iranic religion, sites like these may provide greater insight into their history.

Apparently it was supposed to come out in a "few weeks" back in December 2015 according to the Guardian, its May 2017 now and still no news. Definitely something fishy going on.

Regarding the Kalash, they are an interesting people indeed. The Kalasha language, along with Khowari of the Chitral Valley, is supposed to be the closest language to ancient Sanskrit.

This is a nice short documentary on them. Their culture/religion is very close to Rg Vedic one as well.

Funny, whenever i mention Aryan on Any Indian forum i get bombed by posts aaying Aryan drividian theory is fake lie created by British people.

It seems as if British people (Cambridge Uni) are doing a number on them again

 

[Mian Babban]

Likely to be early aryans with little local ancestry. Only thing is they take way to much to release results after extracting DNA, hopefully this year.

Is there any specific clue they found that they are associating the skeletons with Aryans?

 

[Kabira]

Is there any specific they found that they are associating the skeletons with Aryans?

They are not 100% sure. Only DNA test will prove if they are aryans or IVC people. But more then likely aryans.

 

[xairhossi]

Is there any specific clue they found that they are associating the skeletons with Aryans?

The period/age (Iron Age/Late Bronze Age) of the site is that of the Rg Vedic one, hence Aryans. Swat features as a very important place in the Rg Veda as well.

They are not 100% sure. Only DNA test will prove if they are aryans or IVC people. But more then likely aryans.

It's unlikely that it would be an IVC site, given the time period. The researchers also would've mentioned it being an IVC site if it was.

Btw @save_ghenda , mixed mode oracle of sample from Yamnaya (proto-Indo-Iranian site in Pontic steppe) in HarappaDNA.

60.6% finnish (1000genomes) + 39.4% sindhi (hgdp) @ 18.97

 

[Kabira]

The period/age (Iron Age/Late Bronze Age) of the site is that of the Rg Vedic one, hence Aryans. Swat features as a very important place in the Rg Veda as well.


It's unlikely that it would be an IVC site, given the time period. The researchers also would've mentioned it being an IVC site if it was.

Btw @save_ghenda , mixed mode oracle of sample from Yamnaya (proto-Indo-Iranian site in Pontic steppe) in HarappaDNA.

60.6% finnish (1000genomes) + 39.4% sindhi (hgdp) @ 18.97

I meant skeleton in grave could be from IVC era even if Harappan site was not found. It's confirmed that burials were like aryans in steppe?

I ALWAYS SAY THAT Dravidian history is far richer than Aryans so why on earth Indians still carry this Aryan phobia and are shy of owning Dravidian roots.

Nomadic barbaric Aryans elite imposed themselves on Harappans and introduced language. But they were not that civilised as evident by the fact that all those great men like Panini etc came much later when they would have learned many things from locals. But it's not like we find any evidence of civilisation in south asia apart from in indus valley.

 

[xairhossi]

I meant skeleton in grave could be from IVC era even if Harappan site was not found. It's confirmed that burials were like aryans in steppe?

The Swat cemeteries have always been associated with Aryans but I think the burials are different from Kurgan steppe burials.

Swat Valley "early Indo-Aryans" at the lab

"For a while now I've been hearing rumors that the Reich Lab was working on Late Bronze Age and Iron Age samples from Pakistan's Swat Valley for a new paper on the Indo-Europeanization of South Asia. This has now been confirmed officially in a newsletter released by Padova University. See here.

Anyone want to guess how they'll turn out? I'm betting they'll be modeled as well over 50% Steppe_EMBA or Yamnaya-related. In other words, similar to the Kalasha people of the Hindu Kush, but even more Yamnaya-like. Exciting times ahead.

The archaeological paper mentioned in the newsletter is available behind a paywall here. I skimmed through it and didn't really understand it. But the authors seem to agree with the general consensus that these samples represent some of the earliest Indo-Aryan speakers in South Asia; likely descendants of recent migrants from the Central Asian steppes.

Abstract: The protohistoric graveyards of north-western Pakistan were first excavated in the 1960s, but their chronology is still debated, along with their relationship to broader regional issues of ethnic and cultural change. Recent excavation of two graveyards in the Swat Valley has provided new dating evidence and a much better understanding both of grave structure and treatment of the dead. Secondary burial was documented at Udegram, along with the use of perishable containers and other objects as grave goods. The complexity of the funerary practices reveal the prolonged interaction between the living and the dead in protohistoric Swat.
Massimo Vidale and Roberto Micheli, Protohistoric graveyards of the Swat Valley, Pakistan: new light on funerary practices and absolute chronology, Antiquity, Published online: 04 April 2017, DOI: https://doi.org/10.15184/aqy.2017.23"
http://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2017/04/swat-valley-early-indo-aryans-at-lab.html