Surge in religious extremism must be blamed on West – Kremlin official

[ravi kiran]

not my view... and we are off-topic... so please allow me till tomorrow for me to post you my view on socialism, in the "whatever" thread.

okey bro good night

 

[Steve781]

Events in Chechnya and Dagestan were direct consequences of Western flirting with religious fanatics, posing themselvs as Muslims.

Russia wants to believe it was foreign supported because it's embarassing how long it took a supposedly mighty army to defeat a bunch of rag tag militias in a tiny republic.

 

[jamahir]

Russia wants to believe it was foreign supported because it's embarassing how long it took a supposedly mighty army to defeat a bunch of rag tag militias in a tiny republic.

is that the same in syria too??

 

[Steve781]

is that the same in syria too??

Rebels in Syria were openly supported by foreigners from the beginning. Most NATO countries supported Russia's actions in Chechnya against the rebels.

 

[jamahir]

Maudoodi, IMHO was an ignorant person much like Muhammad Ibn Abd al Wahhab

correct.

in the case of Mirza of Qadiyan had actual potential to bring about the next evolution in Muslim thought,

didn't he assign himself the title of prophet?? i don't know much about him.

you will remember our previous conversation about muammar gaddafi... muammar called himself only as "imaam of all muslims"... as far as i know, that title did not exist before him but it is more simpler and democratic... unlike the monarchy-invoking "khalifa".

The result was that all three dismiss the rest of the Muslim community(and each other) as heretics.

the irony being that maudoodi and wahab themselves should be categorized as heretic.

Zakir Naik is another quasi Mufti in my opinion. If you are familiar with the age old hierarchy(from the days of the Baghdad Caliphate and its much more comprehensive knowledge and research base) of Islamic Scholars.. the Aalim were the proverbial PhD cum Judges of the order.. and the Mufti..which was a very low level title.. was nothing more than a Oath commissioner in terms of a Judicial system.

Sadly , today we have Muftis acting out the role of Aalims and everyone below them including those on the internet who just picked up the Quran three days ago becoming Muftis.

yes, zakir naik is a fake, like those tele-evangelicals from usa.

and in my humble opinion, the early and true islam differed from other religions because it removed the "priest class"... the quran was not meant to be worshiped but to be read... without any agent or interpreter called "priest"... the only sanctioned authority is the qazi ( local judge, for legal matters )... as for interpretation of quran, it was only meant to be done in the initial phase of adoption in gathering of people with common sense, through ijtehad... or through self-learnt scholars... intelligent people... and not through some mullah school like deoband ( in uttar pradesh, india ).

Most NATO countries supported Russia's actions in Chechnya against the rebels.

so where did the rebels have their support base for funding, training and armament?? there were of course the "afghan arabs" ( so-called mujahideen ) who must have been transported to within chechnya... besides, it is chechens who form the chechen government, yes??

@vostok

 

[Steve781]

correct.





so where did the rebels have their support base for funding, training and armament?? there were of course the "afghan arabs" ( so-called mujahideen ) who must have been transported to within chechnya... besides, it is chechens who form the chechen government, yes??

@vostok

View attachment 164160

And?

 

[SQ8]

correct.



didn't he assign himself the title of prophet?? i don't know much about him.

you will remember our previous conversation about muammar gaddafi... muammar called himself only as "imaam of all muslims"... as far as i know, that title did not exist before him but it is more simpler and democratic... unlike the monarchy-invoking "khalifa".



the irony being that maudoodi and wahab themselves should be categorized as heretic.



yes, zakir naik is a fake, like those tele-evangelicals from usa.

and in my humble opinion, the early and true islam differed from other religions because it removed the "priest class"... the quran was not meant to be worshiped but to be read... without any agent or interpreter called "priest"... the only sanctioned authority is the qazi ( local judge, for legal matters )... as for interpretation of quran, it was only meant to be done in the initial phase of adoption in gathering of people with common sense, through ijtehad... or through self-learnt scholars... intelligent people... and not through some mullah school like deoband ( in uttar pradesh, india ).

He did apparently although his current followers deny that vehemently. The issue with the whole non-muslim declaration started with the Prophet issue, otherwise there have been many who called themselves the "mahdi" and really not much was done upon them as the Qadiyanis have had to suffer.

I do not agree with Gaddafis ideals since he himself was no model "Imam" or anything of the sort. rather him and Saddam along with all other Arab strongmen were generally best categorized as monsters in my view and nowhere near ideals to follow. Sure, one or two good ideas might have flown but the age old adage of "practice what you preach" is important.

I disagree with the complete self taught scholar idea, because there is where you are led to people like Maududi. What is needed are intellectual scholars.. people from well exposed(focus on the idea that exposure to the world is different from education or intelligence)...who are aware of what the requirements of the time are. These people need mentors who have in-depth knowledge of the subject(here I will admit a bias towards Tasawwuf or Sufi teachers.. and I do not mean the musical or whirling dervesh aspect of it which is nothing more than localized methods for pulling towards religion, but rather the method of teaching). There is a requirement for curriculum as too much nonsense exists on the information highway and it must be sorted it out from the original oldest teachings closest to the scripture.

It is these people who will be able to implement good ijtehad along with those from certain schools. Again, Deoband of today is not the Deoband of pre-47.. nor the Deoband of pre-1857... so Deoband like many schools has had brain drains and loss of good faculty so to speak.

 

[vostok]

@vostok

View attachment 164160

rear base for militants were located in Georgia. Training camps - in those countries where terrorists are usualy preparied by Western instructors, as well as by earlier trained by West Mujahideen. Money for terrorists came from abroad almoust on 100%.

 

[jamahir]

And?

the answer is in vostok's post, #38.

 

[he-man]

I agree,,i blame pakistan.
It is located west of india

 

[Steve781]

the answer is in vostok's post, #38.

He has no proof. Just the usual Putinist bullshit.

 

[jamahir]

He has no proof. Just the usual Putinist bullshit.

and what is this proof you seek... satellite photos?? radio recordings?? telephone recordings?? interrogations??

what is the point... western governments will deny all anyway... didn't russia present to uno the satellite photos of benghazi as real proof that libyan airforce were not bombarding civilians in early 2011??

what proof would you need to now believe in 2014 that the libyans were really fighting nato proxies in form of qaeda/ikhwaan/taliban/shabaab etc??

we must trust in our own common sense.