Sukhoi PAK-FA / FGFA: Updates,News & Discussions

[SR-91]

Russia, India to Begin Construction of Test T-50 Fighter Jets

Russia and India are moving into the phase of constructing the first models of the Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA) with stealth capabilities, based on the Russian T-50 prototype jet, the deputy head of Russian state arms exporter Rosoboronexport said Tuesday.
“The agreements on the contract are currently at their final stages, which include the development of construction documentation, building the test models, trials, and certification,” Sergei Goreslavsky told RIA Novosti in an interview ahead of the Aero India-2015 exposition in Bangalore, India, that will open on February 18.

The first stage of the Russian-Indian project has already been finalized. The first test aircraft is scheduled to be created after 2018.

The Sukhoi T-50, or PAK FA, is the Russian Air Force’s first stealth fighter, designed to succeed the Sukhoi Su-27, as well as the Mikoyan MiG-29 fighter jets. The aircraft conducted its first test flight in 2010.

The FGFA, developed jointly by Russia’s Sukhoi and India’s Hindustan Aeronautics Limited, is a derivative from the T-50. Unlike the Russian version, the Indian version of the aircraft will be a two-seater.


Read more: http://hindi.sputniknews.com/south_asia/20150217/1013470596.html#ixzz3Sccfe9Pu

So we r getting a two seater.
Everything is highly automated now these days, why IAF, the only ones, wants two seater on a 5th generation fighter. This is beyond me???

 

[CONNAN]

So we r getting a two seater.
Everything is highly automated now these days, why IAF, the only ones, wants two seater on a 5th generation fighter. This is beyond me???

I too always wonder with the advancement in automation why i think we are the largest operators of 2 seater fighter jets. 2 seaters really good of intercepting and aerial reconnaissance at same time I think we should have the combination of both love to see su35 bm or su 30mki single seat fighter

so most of the time the answer is Need? Not really. To be more efficient? YES...

well I remember in one interview IAF saying fundamentally, in a single-seat fighter/attack aircraft the pilot is overloaded while in a two-seater the pilot is free to simply fly the airplane to its maximum limits

 

[SR-91]

I too always wonder with the advancement in automation why i think we are the largest operators of 2 seater fighter jets. 2 seaters really good of intercepting and aerial reconnaissance at same time I think we should have the combination of both love to see su35 bm or su 30mki single seat fighter

so most of the time the answer is Need? Not really. To be more efficient? YES...

well I remember in one interview IAF saying fundamentally, in a single-seat fighter/attack aircraft the pilot is overloaded while in a two-seater the pilot is free to simply fly the airplane to its maximum limits

Next generation is all bout stealth and greater dependance on avionics. Enemy shouldn't see u and avionics doing the rest of the job.
I would've rather see them making FGFA more stealthier and get more expertise in stealth than waste their time in a two seater outdated design in two seater.

 

[CONNAN]

Next generation is all bout stealth and greater dependance on avionics. Enemy shouldn't see u and avionics doing the rest of the job.
I would've rather see them making FGFA more stealthier and get more expertise in stealth than waste their time in a two seater outdated design in two seater.

good points but The problem is when it comes to stealth , Avionics , radar , ECM no one beats the khan in the present market and coming to 2 seater or single seat well its upto the IAF only god Knows what they want the FGFA to be. last time there was this news in 2013 posting it below the below piece of information was given on the bottom of the article

India had initially pitched for 166 single-seat and 48 twin-seat fighters, but the IAF now plans to stick with single-cockpit fighters to reduce costs and protect stealth features.

India Concerned About FGFA Work Share With Russia | AWIN content from Aviation Week

 

[sancho]

So we r getting a two seater.
Everything is highly automated now these days, why IAF, the only ones, wants two seater on a 5th generation fighter. This is beyond me???

Who said they are the only one? USN wanted twin seat F22 varients, Israel and other customers prefered twin seat F35s and the success of the twin seat Su 30 at exports over the single seat Su 35, should make clear what export countries wants.
Also look at the EF and Rafale, 2 of the most modern fighters today, with the most advanced avionics and the French purposly go for more twin seaters than single seaters, while we saw how RAF EF pilots found it difficult to do self designated strikes in Libya in the initial stages (although the lack of training might had been a reason too), which resulted in twin seat Tornados supporting them.
Modern avionics makes it easier for a single pilot to operate a multi role fighter, while pilots in the past were specialised for A2A or A2G, but that doesn't mean a 2nd pilot / WSO wouldn't add advantages. Be it strike, recon, EW or the mini AWACS, or buddy refuelling roles, it always helps to have a 2nd pilot on board. That's why the F15 strike Eagles, the F18 Growlers, all Israeli F16 SUFAs are twin seaters too, or why Russia use the Su 34 for EW or most attack roles, not the Su 35.
The only reason why most stealth fighters are produced in single seater versions is simple costs. Re-designing and development of the twin seater adds costs, to an already expensive development and that's the same reason why Russia and India earlier compromised on buying single seat fighters first, to keep costs under control and add the twin seater later, when costs went down a bit, after the first 100 to 200 fighters were produced.

 

[Major Shaitan Singh]

SU T 50 FIGHTER PROJECT GETS A THRUST


A fan art of Two seat FGFA


FGFA or PMF shown by HAL in Aero India 2015

With the number of operational fighter squadrons dipping to an alarming 25 as against the required 42 squadrons the Government of India has felt a strong need for new fighter jets and in a rapid induction phase. Keeping the future moves of the hostile countries GOI has accelerated the process to induct the best in class 5th gen Fighters for the Indian Air Force. The project has been slated as the SU T50 being jointly developed with the Russians .With the last government showing very less progress in this regard it’s a uphill task for the present government to induct these jets in a rapid succession. Though the deal was discussed with the Russian counterpart during the last government’s tenure no head way was made in the talks and a formal agreement in this regard remained a dream to be realized. From the day the new government took over office the modernization of the armed forces and ramming up the capabilities of the forces has been the top priority. With China running ahead with its very own Fifth generation fighter project the government is surely concerned. China has always been waiting to strike back at India. The present government seems to have realized the real threat to India if any is not “Pakistan “but the “China”. Chinese having established two entirely different projects have joined the elite club of having access to two entirely different Stealth aircrafts platforms and its only after The United States of America. With increased co-operation between China and Pakistan fears of these sophisticated aircrafts being operated in a two front attack against India seems to be a real possibility. And the depleting operational fighter squadron’s numbers of the air force has surely alarmed the government. With no new induction on chart to the air force and faced with only retirement schedules of the 60's era fighters the government has been forced to fast track the “FGFA project”.


The Su T 50, PAK FA 4th Prototype in Testing


With the new government finalising the contract with the Russian counterpart the long waited Fifth Generation aircrafts can soon be seen patrolling the Indian skies with a IAF tag on them. The Indian and Russian government have now officially signed contracts to produce the first test models for the 5th gen fighters benefiting for both Russian and Indian Air force. The Indian delegation has demanded for minute modifications than to the model being developed for the Russian forces. The Russian Variant has been formally named as PAK FA (Prospective Airborne Complex of Frontline Aviation), and the Indian variant being named as PMF (Perspective Multi-role Fighter). The main developing parties for the Fighter have been finalised with Russian based Sukhoi being theajor investor and developer for Russia and the Indian side’s development and manufacturing process being headed by HAL. With both the state owned companies having a good rap out and past experiences in the SU 30 project the companies have made significant steps to materialize the long pending projects. Finally the disputes in regard to various issues regarding the “Technology sharing” and financial worries with Sukhoi and HAL has crossed the turbulent waters and has finally sailed in to a calmer portion promising a bright future for both the forces.


Even though the first T 50 made its first public appearance in Jan 2010 very less has been know of the aircraft’s capabilities and with just the test models ready it’s a very long way for the induction of these force multiplying fighters into the respective forces. The FGFA project now stands for a testing time where the capabilities the role of the aircraft is time and again tested. With various demands to be met the Russians are sticking to field their first Squadron of SU T 50 by 2017 even though it’s really asking. The first fully fledged prototype model to be handed over to HAL is being awaited in a year to follow. HAL would then be charged with the responsibilities to fine tune the capabilities of the aircraft and to start the process of modifications for Indian conditions. The first Indian version is scheduled to be delivered and inducted by 2019. Indian Air Force has scheduled to field at least a few squadrons of these sophisticated fighters by the year 2021. But with very less ground work being completed it’s a very demanding schedule the IAF has set-up for the HAL. With the time frame being too tight the Indian Government may opt for various other options. To stick to the demanding nature India is facing the government may end up with a totally new contract to procure a few squadrons of T 50 directly from Russia.


Though rumors have been for quite some time nothing has been officially confirmed till date. IAF has time and again felt the need to operate these stealth capable fighters for quite some time if the present government does sign a deal for a direct procurement IAF may boost of these ultra-tech fighters which will surely serve as a mega force multiplier for the IAF. Sources close to Russian agencies said have deferred the dates for these T 50 to around the planned induction time of 2020.

The major modifications being demanded by the IAF is to have capacities for the fighter to operate with a two manned stations. The present and under development fifth gen fighters of other nations actually have been developed around a one manned station. Starting from F 22, J 31 to the F 35 all have been provided and developed for a single operating crew. The mother design T 50 itself is being developed around a single manned station. The only ones who seem to be following the IAF path are the Israeli's who have had plans to modify their F 35 to be manned by two operating crews. And the change in this very basic design demands a very skilled team to work for flawless perfection to be mastered.

To boost the dipping squadron numbers and the need for deep strike operations increasing IAF initially planned to procure some 250 FGFA but faced with short runs in various fields the final number was trimmed to 150 FGFA’s. Former IAF chief Browne was quoted saying to have initially went for 150 two manned FGFA and 50 T 50 from Russia but later to be trimmed down to 150.

If the fact is to be believed IAF can boost of 6-7 operational FGFA squadrons by 2021. And if the government does go ahead with the plans to procure a few T 50 directly from Russia in fly away condition IAF can boost of stealth capable fighters joining their forces by 2020. Hope the all crucial FGFA project rolls in the top gear and the expected deadlines are met and the IAF is given a major booster for strategic deep penetrating bombing missions in the near future.

 

[sancho]

 

[PARIKRAMA]

Want immediate delivery of 5th-gen fighter: India to Russia

Ajay Banerjee
Tribune News Service
New Delhi


Faced with a dwindling fleet of fighter jets, India is pressing its military ally Russia for immediate delivery of the fifth generation fighter aircraft (FGFA).

New Delhi has suggested to Moscow that the T-50 fighter jet (being built as an FGFA) can be supplied to the Indian Air Force (IAF) while the research to improve upon the aircraft can carry on simultaneously. The same formula of graded improvements was applied in the case of Sukhoi-30 MkI jets.

Top government sources told The Tribune that Russians have been insisting on a $ 11-billion R&D contract for the FGFA project. India, on its part, says since the plane is already flying, such a contract can be inked along with simultaneous deliveries of the plane to the IAF. Russia is yet to decide on India’s request.

Bulk deliveries of the T-50 jet for Russian forces will commence in 2016. India wants Russia to deliver 144 jets. Russian go-ahead will give the IAF necessary number of planes to phase out ageing MiG-21s and MiG-27s. In a war scenario with China, an aircraft such as the T-50 would be ideal for missions deep into Tibet. Beijing has a very good border infrastructure that poses threat to India.

Indications of a breakthrough in the deadlock over FFGA deal had come at the just-concluded Aero-India. Both sides separately acknowledged they were close to finalising the T-50 deal for the PAK-FA (Prospective Airborne Complex of Frontline Aviation) programme being run by Russia.

IAF Chief Air Chief Marshall Arup Raha had last week said: “The future belongs to fifth-generation fighters. Pending issues with Russia will be resolved soon and we will have a compressed timeline for deliveries”.

From the Russian side, the state-owned United Aircraft Corporation's (UAC) president Yuri Slyusar had said: “The Russian and Indian parties have reached a consensus on the work share of each party”.

Want immediate delivery of 5th-gen fighter: India to Russia

Saurav Jha ‏@SJha1618

New glide path - some Su-50 MKI, then full blown FGFA, then Russkis adopt FGFA. Then improved FGFA for both India & Russia post 2028.

Saurav Jha ‏@SJha1618

The matter is simple. Commence deliveries of the Su-50 to India concurrently with deliveries to the RuAF. And then send them to NE bases.


Saurav Jha ‏@SJha1618
Border infra, new EW systems, Agni-V, K-4, early Su-50 deliveries. The grounds for detente with China are being put in place.

 

[sancho]

Interestingly the only new pics coming in, are from the 2nd prototype.

 

[Gessler]

Interesting note about PAK-FA engine "Type-30" -

Russia ups stakes in hypersonic race | Russia & India Report

Thanks to Vritra at the other forum

 

[he-man]

Want immediate delivery of 5th-gen fighter: India to Russia

Ajay Banerjee
Tribune News Service
New Delhi


Faced with a dwindling fleet of fighter jets, India is pressing its military ally Russia for immediate delivery of the fifth generation fighter aircraft (FGFA).

New Delhi has suggested to Moscow that the T-50 fighter jet (being built as an FGFA) can be supplied to the Indian Air Force (IAF) while the research to improve upon the aircraft can carry on simultaneously. The same formula of graded improvements was applied in the case of Sukhoi-30 MkI jets.

Top government sources told The Tribune that Russians have been insisting on a $ 11-billion R&D contract for the FGFA project. India, on its part, says since the plane is already flying, such a contract can be inked along with simultaneous deliveries of the plane to the IAF. Russia is yet to decide on India’s request.

Bulk deliveries of the T-50 jet for Russian forces will commence in 2016. India wants Russia to deliver 144 jets. Russian go-ahead will give the IAF necessary number of planes to phase out ageing MiG-21s and MiG-27s. In a war scenario with China, an aircraft such as the T-50 would be ideal for missions deep into Tibet. Beijing has a very good border infrastructure that poses threat to India.

Indications of a breakthrough in the deadlock over FFGA deal had come at the just-concluded Aero-India. Both sides separately acknowledged they were close to finalising the T-50 deal for the PAK-FA (Prospective Airborne Complex of Frontline Aviation) programme being run by Russia.

IAF Chief Air Chief Marshall Arup Raha had last week said: “The future belongs to fifth-generation fighters. Pending issues with Russia will be resolved soon and we will have a compressed timeline for deliveries”.

From the Russian side, the state-owned United Aircraft Corporation's (UAC) president Yuri Slyusar had said: “The Russian and Indian parties have reached a consensus on the work share of each party”.

Want immediate delivery of 5th-gen fighter: India to Russia

Saurav Jha ‏@SJha1618

New glide path - some Su-50 MKI, then full blown FGFA, then Russkis adopt FGFA. Then improved FGFA for both India & Russia post 2028.

Saurav Jha ‏@SJha1618

The matter is simple. Commence deliveries of the Su-50 to India concurrently with deliveries to the RuAF. And then send them to NE bases.


Saurav Jha ‏@SJha1618
Border infra, new EW systems, Agni-V, K-4, early Su-50 deliveries. The grounds for detente with China are being put in place.

I TOLD EVERYONE THE SAME THING IN LAST 2 YEARS

 

[Agent_47]

Internal weapon bays

The PAKFA has two tandem main internal weapon bays each approximately 4.6 m (15.1 ft) long and 1.0 m (3.3 ft) wide and two small triangular-section weapon bays that protrudes under the fuselage near the wing root. The internal carriage of weapons preserves the aircraft's stealth, reduces aerodynamic drag and improves performance compared to external stores. The T-50's high cruising speed is expected to substantially increase weapon effectiveness compared to its predecessors. Vympel is developing two ejection launchers for the main bays: the UVKU-50L for missiles weighing up to 300 kg (660 lb) and the UVKU-50U for ordinance weighing up to 700 kg (1,500 lb). The aircraft has an internally mounted 9A1-4071K (GSh-301) 30 mm cannon near the right LEVCON root.

For air-to-air combat, the T-50 is expected to carry up to six beyond-visual-range missiles in its two main weapons bays and two short-range missiles in the wing root weapons bays. The primary medium-range missile is the active radar-homing R-77M (izdeliye 180), an upgraded R-77 variant with AESA seeker and conventional rear fins; the short-range missile is the heat-seeking R-74M2 (izdeliye 760), an upgraded R-74 variant with reduced cross-section for internal carriage. For longer ranged applications, two large R-37M (Izdeliye 810) beyond-visual-range missiles can be carried in each main weapons bay.

The main bays can also accommodate air-to-ground missiles such as the Kh-38M, as well as multiple 250 kg (550 lb) KAB-250 or 500 kg (1,100 lb) KAB-500 precision guided bombs. The aircraft is also expected to carry further developed and modified variants of Kh-35UE (AS-20 "Kayak") anti-ship missile and Kh-58UShK (AS-11 "Kilter") anti-radiation missile. For missions that do not require stealth, the T-50 can carry stores on its six external hardpoints. There is a possibility of the installation of BrahMos supersonic cruise missile on the PAK FA and its FGFA derivative; only one or two such missiles may be carried due to heavy weight of the BrahMos.

 

[sancho]

 

[Gessler]

View attachment 200172
View attachment 200173
View attachment 200174

052 again!

 

[sancho]

052 again!

Sadly, that's the only recent pics, not sure what that means.