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Sukhoi PAK-FA / FGFA: Updates,News & Discussions

Martian words

One word for martian... Definitely you are fan boy.. you accepted it as a prototype... A prototype doesnt need stealth coatings and protruding stuff also works fine.. Even the Americans havent doubted much of the T-50 stealth as you have been doubting.. I guess Russians are following a good approach to test there aircraft.. it is not necessary to have all things while testing the aerodynamics.. definitely which the Chinese are lacking ...dont you think Russians are definitely intelligent than you guys? ;)
 
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Citation: HowStuffWorks "How does stealth technology work?"

"How does stealth technology work?
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Most conventional aircraft have a rounded shape. This shape makes them aerodynamic, but it also creates a very efficient radar reflector. The round shape means that no matter where the radar signal hits the plane, some of the signal gets reflected back:

TmmzY.jpg


If we take your own sources to account, these rounded shapings are efficient radar refletors and working against the general stealth shapings:

jt35yfbf.jpg



Compared to:


wa4eqgis.jpg



And as you pointed out with your second source, the size plays a big role as well and what offers a bigger surface for radar reflections?


ixleraak.jpg

txnx3zrp.jpg



:disagree: Simply hilarious how your own sources constantly prove your claims to be wrong.

Can any Mod please stop this now? It's getting ridiculous!
 
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dge9fj6oz


The round structures are covered by the intakes.
Though still there are orbs under the wings.

No, they are slightly in front of them to direct the airflow and improve the engine performance, that's why the round form is useful, but from the the frontal point of view (similar to T50s IRST), they are perfectly visible and according to Martian2s sources, will increase radar reflections.
 
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No, they are slightly in front of them to direct the airflow and improve the engine performance, that's why the round form is useful, but from the the frontal point of view (similar to T50s IRST), they are perfectly visible and according to Martian2s sources, will increase radar reflections.

From the side, the visible part is not round. Though the round structure is visible from the front, the curvature doesn't faces forward.
 
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If we take your own sources to account, these rounded shapings are efficient radar refletors and working against the general stealth shapings:

jt35yfbf.jpg



And as you pointed out with your second source, the size plays a big role as well and what offers a bigger surface for radar reflections?


:disagree: Simply hilarious how your own sources constantly prove your claims to be wrong.

Can any Mod please stop this now? It's getting ridiculous!

Those big spheres under wing reminds us that Chinese engineering capability has hit the limit and are no more capable of producing compact and powerful actuators for their stealth plane and compromising the whole purpose of it's existence.
 
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Vertical stabilizers are canted and reflect radar away from the emitter. Your argument is not relevant.
The vertical stabs are canted to avoid the 90 deg corner reflector structure when they are in the same section (tail) as the horizontal stabs. An aircraft is a dynamic body so every surface on this complex body have a potential of being a direct reflector, and angled reflector, or a surface wave inducer, depending on the incident angle. But it is because of the 90 deg corner reflector structure that is the reason for canting the vertical stabs. Your argument is completely wrong.
 
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T-50/Pak-Fa IRST is not stealthy.

Do you see the giant radar return (see top diagram below) from a one-foot metal sphere? The T-50/Pak-Fa IRST is approximately a foot in diameter and should have a similar radar return.


It's about half that, get your eyes checked. This is a rediculous as you claiming that the canards on the J-20 are 3 feet long. And you cute picture tells us nothing. Any object will have a spike in rcs--especially a polished metal one.

How far away do you think an AWACS can detect the T-50/Pak-Fa IRST? The IRST is clearly not stealthy and it is terrible stealth design to have a round sphere on the T-50/Pak-Fa nose.

How far can a awacs detect the J-20 with all those round spheres? Unlike the pak-fa those round pods under the wings are at least one foot in diameter, probably close to two feet.





If we take your own sources to account, these rounded shapings are efficient radar refletors and working against the general stealth shapings:

jt35yfbf.jpg



Compared to:


wa4eqgis.jpg



And as you pointed out with your second source, the size plays a big role as well and what offers a bigger surface for radar reflections?


ixleraak.jpg

txnx3zrp.jpg



:disagree: Simply hilarious how your own sources constantly prove your claims to be wrong.

Can any Mod please stop this now? It's getting ridiculous!

This is why he can not be taken seriously, it was bad enough when he claimed that the J-20 canards were only 3 feet long, but even worse when he claimed that the pak-fa's irst is 1 foot in diameter, and now (as usual) his comments backfired on him, just like they backfire many times before.
 
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T-50/Pak-Fa IRST is not stealthy.

Do you see the giant radar return (see top diagram below) from a one-foot metal sphere? The T-50/Pak-Fa IRST is approximately a foot in diameter and should have a similar radar return.

How far away do you think an AWACS can detect the T-50/Pak-Fa IRST? The IRST is clearly not stealthy and it is terrible stealth design to have a round sphere on the T-50/Pak-Fa nose.
How is it 'giant'? At what distance from the radar? Your argument failed spectacularly when it is well known that RCS is a variable figure based upon distance, power, and freq employed. From this respect, the RCS value is a 'fictitious' argument.

The reason why a sphere is usually used as a calibration body is because the sphere produce the most consistent reflected energy level regardless of incident angle, not because it set some kind of standard for 'stealth'.

Here is something way back in 1967 to support my argument...

Radar Signature Analysis, February 1967 Electronics World - RF Cafe
Radar Signature Analysis February 1967 Electronics World

Since a sphere looks like a sphere no matter how you view it, its radar cross-section will be a constant level with no variation because of different aspect angles. The cone and cylinder have more complicated returns because the strength of the echo will depend on the angle or aspect at which the beam strikes the object.

If the transmission is changed in anyway, such a change in freq or amplitude, the sphere is brought back in again to establish a new baseline.

But there is something call the '10-lambda rule' that will completely invalidate the calibration if the tester is not careful...

sphere_wave_behav_1.jpg


REGARDLESS of the freq employed, if the sphere's diameter is less than 10 lambda (wavelength) then the 'creeping wave' effect occurs. What happens is that a portion of the surface wave travels around the sphere and added its energy to that of the initial specular reflection. If the sphere is further smaller, we can have a pulsating radar echo from the sphere due to alternating constructive and destructive interference because the creeping wave continues to wrap around the sphere.

If the sphere is greater than 10-lambda, meaning its diameter is 11 or 12 times the wavelength under test, then there is no creeping wave effect, only leaky waves whose energy will be absorbed by the chamber walls that are lined with absorbers. This is why the 1 ft sphere is usually used, because its diameter is much larger than most wavelengths employed by civilian and military radars, enabling the tester to rapidly changes freqs without much cost.

So if a much more complex body than a sphere is introduced, rotating the complex body will reveal which aspect angle will produce a matching reflected energy level as the sphere's, which aspect angle produce the highest, and which aspect angle will produce the lowest. The sphere is used to establish a reference point for a COMPLEX body, not to establish a threshold for 'stealth'.

Just in case anyone think I made up this '10-lambda rule'...

radar_creeping_wave_yan-xu.jpg


Look at the 'Introduction' paragraph. Look at the authors' names and where they came from.

Measuring radar cross sections in an anechoic chamber is a fundamental part of validating radar measurements.
So have YOU done any? I have.
 
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Those big spheres under wing reminds us that Chinese engineering capability has hit the limit and are no more capable of producing compact and powerful actuators for their stealth plane and compromising the whole purpose of it's existence.

jt35yfbf.jpg
 
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He uses the trusty eyeball test, remeber the J-20 looks like an F-22 so it has to have the same rcs and the pak-fa has to have a higher rcs than the Rafale because of its engines.


I am pissed off of Pak-FA vs J20 argument, hence stopped participating in such posts. What I got to know that PAK-FA is not stealth coz
1. Its russian
2. It doesn't come in black
3. It has visible Engine blade


and the funniest part is
4. It doesn't look like stealth
 
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Pak-FA just a plane for cheating Indian money by Russia, wake up Indian friends


OHH are you james bond-007... how you got that information....mate

---------- Post added at 01:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:38 PM ----------

Pak-FA just a plane for cheating Indian money by Russia, wake up Indian friends


OHH are you james bond-007... how you got that information....mate
 
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