SU30MKI profile on Overseas Excercises

[Windjammer]

paf cannot train effectively with those f-7s which dont even have a proper radar to ***** capabilities of other aircraft in the ex.

These are F-7PGs, equipped with the Griffo-7 Radars.
Perhaps not in the same class as the others and albeit PAF was there to analyze and learn, but USAF General openly admitted that the F-7s indeed represented a potent threat.

 

[Windjammer]

PAF has mixed with the best ? Come on.. I expected you to say, USAF has mixed with the best. That would be more appropriate lol. What exactly was your contribution to the exercise ? The almighty F-7s ?

Well let me make it easy for you,
The USAF with their F-22s was the best, the rest including the PAF were rubbing shoulders with it aka mixing with the best.

 

[Donatello]

It is either stealth or no stealth. Small signature, big signature, moderate signature makes no difference. The MKI has a very powerful radar and you dont have any fighter that can evade MKI's radar within it's range. No matter how small your signature, you will still get detected on MKI's radar. At Red Flag the MKI's had not switched on their radars.

So it is Stealth or No Stealth ..rest helps very little.

Sir,

Just like every Indian fanboy you seemed not be ready to accept the fact.

Su-30 MKi is a beautiful machine. Indeed an excellent piece of engineering ( I am myself electrical engineer and i know how to admire the technical aspect of any thing) from a country that build it's military might on totalitarian and forced labor work force. We didn't expect the Russians to come up with such a good plane, i am sure USA too was surprised.

Now back to topic, the Su-30MKI was seen at red flag for aerial combat tactics. The exercise was not about full scale mock war, but air-air and the Americans wanted to see the MKI's close combat performance which indeed was impressive.
Now the fact is that if the MKI was ever at war with USAF in real time, the american f-16s or F-15s having shorter radars wouldn't matter because the AWACs would be tracking and communicating to locate and target Su-30. The MKIs would be shot before they would even get airborne. When you say Su-30 didn't use the radar, the concept was not electronic warfare. That is done by AWACs and AEWACs. the reality would be very different. You don't need radar to evaluate close combat maneuvers, which was the point of red flag.

That's why many in USA believe if the Cobra Maneuvers by Su-30 are of any use or not. Why would The Soviet test pilot Viktor Pugachyov show off Cobra in 1989, if they had intended the Su-30 to be a long range killer? That was to show if a chasing fighter could be shaken lose off the MKIs tail. Which means the chances of interception at close range are quite large.


In case of Pakistan, Pakistan is buying AWACs for a reason. As the ACM recently told that AWACs would be used to detect the type, vector and range of the IAF aircraft before they enter border so that the shorter range mirage/f-16s/f7 are able to scramble accordingly. That's it. Simple. Plus AN-TPS77 radars in service are longer range than SU-30 anyway. Even if the MKIs come for offensive action, they would be tracked long before the Su-30 tracks anything inside Pakistan. Couple that with AWACs and the Chinese KJ-200, the PAF would have ample opportunity to take evasive/defensive actions.

 

[Avatar]

These are F-7PGs, equipped with the Griffo-7 Radars.
Perhaps not in the same class as the others and albeit PAF was there to analyze and learn, but USAF General openly admitted that the F-7s indeed represented a potent threat.

The birds on the runway also pose a potent threat.

 

[Donatello]

These are F-7PGs, equipped with the Griffo-7 Radars.
Perhaps not in the same class as the others and albeit PAF was there to analyze and learn, but USAF General openly admitted that the F-7s indeed represented a potent threat.

F-7s are awesome for close combat hit and run and interception. Other than that, F-16, F-18, Su-27/30 and Mig 29 would certainly overwhelm it.

 

[Avatar]

Well let me make it easy for you,
The USAF with their F-22s was the best, the rest including the PAF were rubbing shoulders with it aka mixing with the best.

Thanks for the clarification, your excellence. Just what I was hoping for !

 

[Avatar]

Sir,

Just like every Indian fanboy you seemed not be ready to accept the fact.

Su-30 MKi is a beautiful machine. Indeed an excellent piece of engineering ( I am myself electrical engineer and i know how to admire the technical aspect of any thing) from a country that build it's military might on totalitarian and forced labor work force. We didn't expect the Russians to come up with such a good plane, i am sure USA too was surprised.

Now back to topic, the Su-30MKI was seen at red flag for aerial combat tactics. The exercise was not about full scale mock war, but air-air and the Americans wanted to see the MKI's close combat performance which indeed was impressive.
Now the fact is that if the MKI was ever at war with USAF in real time, the american f-16s or F-15s having shorter radars wouldn't matter because the AWACs would be tracking and communicating to locate and target Su-30. The MKIs would be shot before they would even get airborne. When you say Su-30 didn't use the radar, the concept was not electronic warfare. That is done by AWACs and AEWACs. the reality would be very different. You don't need radar to evaluate close combat maneuvers, which was the point of red flag.

That's why many in USA believe if the Cobra Maneuvers by Su-30 are of any use or not. Why would The Soviet test pilot Viktor Pugachyov show off Cobra in 1989, if they had intended the Su-30 to be a long range killer? That was to show if a chasing fighter could be shaken lose off the MKIs tail. Which means the chances of interception at close range are quite large.


In case of Pakistan, Pakistan is buying AWACs for a reason. As the ACM recently told that AWACs would be used to detect the type, vector and range of the IAF aircraft before they enter border so that the shorter range mirage/f-16s/f7 are able to scramble accordingly. That's it. Simple. Plus AN-TPS77 radars in service are longer range than SU-30 anyway. Even if the MKIs come for offensive action, they would be tracked long before the Su-30 tracks anything inside Pakistan. Couple that with AWACs and the Chinese KJ-200, the PAF would have ample opportunity to take evasive/defensive actions.

Don't underestimate the Indo-Russian AWACS killer.

The IAF is more intelligent than all of us on this forum. They sure know what to give away and what not to.

India has AWACS as well, and one of the best in the world. The Phalcon can detect low flying missiles and UAV's which have very little RCS, so detecting a fighter jet with a reduced RCS shoud not be a problem.

Combine the AWACS with MKI's long range A2A capability.

USA is not going to war with India anytime soon, so lets not dream about that.

 

[Windjammer]

The birds on the runway also pose a potent threat.

Mind is a beautiful thing, it can ooze with sarcasm or work wonders to it's own advantage.

BTW, In case you missed the gravy train, there wasn't a bird in sight.

 

[Windjammer]

Thanks for the clarification, your excellence. Just what I was hoping for !

Stick around, one day even you may have the ability to mix with the best.

 

[KS]

The birds on the runway also pose a potent threat.

hahaha...well said

 

[Donatello]

Don't underestimate the Indo-Russian AWACS killer.

The IAF is more intelligent than all of us on this forum. They sure know what to give away and what not to.


Agreed. So is PAF. Better look up the 65 war, 71 war and the war against Islraelis who got their planes shot down, while PAF didn't lose any. It's force to be reckoned with.


India has AWACS as well, and one of the best in the world. The Phalcon can detect low flying missiles and UAV's which have very little RCS, so detecting a fighter jet with a reduced RCS shoud not be a problem.


Agreed. Hence you just repeated my point. Modern warfare in sub continent would be unlike any other. The days of figher pilot dog-fighting only are long gone. A lot is in the scenario and a lot is at stake.


Combine the AWACS with MKI's long range A2A capability.

Again, PAF would be adding Spada 2000 soon. The reason is to protect the sites when the planes are busy in air. Earlier, Pakistan SAMs were not good enough because PAF thought all aerial threats could be handled by the aircraft. But now as PAF needs to be on offensive to force IAF to cut back, the ground sites would be vulnerable to attack, hence PAF wants better SAMs. Spada can detect and target cruise missiles as well. More tests coming soon.



USA is not going to war with India anytime soon, so lets not dream about that.[/quote]


The dream would turn into nightmare, so don't even think of it.



cheers mate!

 

[Storm Force]

The Coloured American Air Force Officer summed it for me when he analysed the IAF performance HIS WORDS not mine.

IAF came to red flag with a

World class Fighter
World class Pilots
Ready to run from the outset
They adapted and worked at a pace demanded by a Western/USA battle field Management & demands.

That to me sounds like these indians and their SU30MKIs know wat there doing and WAT THEY WILL HAVE TO DO if the need ever arose.

 

[satishkumarcsc]

Its useless arguing with people who quote Americans when they say F & PG is a threat but debunk when the same Americans call MiG 21 Bison as a threat. Such is their loyality to their airforce that they forgot all rationality.

 

[TaimiKhan]

Its useless arguing with people who quote Americans when they say F & PG is a threat but debunk when the same Americans call MiG 21 Bison as a threat. Such is their loyality to their airforce that they forgot all rationality.

That's news for us, as we never heard Americans say that PGs are a threat. A threat to whom ?? US 4th+ gen air force ??

Who said that, plzz let us know.

 

[All-Green]

PAF has mixed with the best ? Come on.. I expected you to say, USAF has mixed with the best. That would be more appropriate lol. What exactly was your contribution to the exercise ? The almighty F-7s ?

Pray tell how exactly should we contribute to an exercise?

USAF is the best air force in the world, i think most of us do not dispute that.
PAF is a highly motivated and experienced air force, a fact well substantiated by its years of operational excellence if i may add.

An exercise is a mutual learning experience.
The F-7 is used by PAF, only makes sense to use it in exercises and learn from its comparative weaknesses and strengths.

Coming back to the topic.
SU-30MKI is a great aircraft and is better than anything we currently operate in PAF, however it is certainly not the best non stealth fighter currently in service in the world.

Even the F-15s of USAF will hold their own against the SU-30s, also the technological superiority of US avionics industry implies that USAF is upgrading its F-15s further with AESA radars, JHMCS etc. and very much plans to retain around 200 of the air superiority F-15Cs till at least 2025.