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Su-57 Program Cancelled

LAVCON has discontinuities, LAVCON is not part of main wing, its a modified version of Canards, at extreme agility/maneuverability slight changes in LAVCON angles will exposed Su-57 to enemy radars in dogfights

And as for leading edge root extension does increase maneuverability/agility but not that much like Canards/TVC its basically high lift device to improve lift, get out of your falsehood kid @ptldM3 :sick::enjoy:


You sound like a parrot. I have been saying that the LEVCON had discontinuities for ages. I also said every aircraft has discontinuities, for instance a slat which every aircraft has-- is a discontinuity. Now that Gambit says what I said about the LEVCONS, you start repeating it.

And no, the LEVCON moving slightly will not "expose" anything, this is not a video game were "fighters" teleport out of thin air once a LEVCON moves slowly. If that were the case all aircraft would be exposed once a rudder, flap, aileron, ext would move. Distance and angle is also extremely important in "stealth" aircraft, the closer an aircraft gets to an enemy the more likely it is to be detected especially if its more vulnerable hemispheres are exposed such as rear or lower sides.

In war time carefull mission planning to avoid or have a favorable advantage over radar stations, aircraft and SAMs is a priority. Many support aircraft such as AWACS, drones, EW aircraft are used to fully exploit weaknesses and give fighters or bombers aircraft the extra advantage. So once again no magic fighter will teleport to attack the SU-57 if it's LEVCONs move. Even a conventional aircraft can hit targets and go undetected if ample mission planning and or assets are used.
 
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Very few orders outside America.

This is the definition of few
Australia
Belgium
Denmark
Israel
Italy
Japan
Netherlands
Norway
South Korea
Turkey

a lot better than zero

673 is very tiny number. Guess how many planes were built in WW2? Just Germany alone built more than 50,000 no?

aircraft technology changes. i thought you like to know
 
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UK: 138 F-35B
Australia: 100 F-35A
Turkey: 100 F-35A
Italy: 60 F-35A & 30 F-35B
Norway: 52 F-35A
Israel: 50 F-35I
Japan: 42 F-35A
ROK: 40 F-35A
Netherlands: 37 F-35A
Denmark: 27 F-35A

673 international orders, not counting future options and potential buyers such as Canada.

The Su-57/35, on the other hand...

Israel will get 75, not 50
Belgium will get 34
That makes 734 for total

Turkey asks for 16 F-35B in addition to 100 F-35A
 
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Not relative to technology of the day. A P-40 was as complex for its time as an F-35 is for today.
I have always thought the Chinese in this forum were hilarious whenever it comes to technical issues, but you are a circus of clowns all by yourself. That is actually impressive.
 
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Yes, they are-- at least from the point of being an active control surface--not moving to keep the aircraft stable like other flight control surfaces.
No, the -57's levcons are not fixed.

To be 'fixed' is not the same as being 'stationary'. While the two words are synonymous, they do not have the same context. To be 'fixed' means cannot move AT ALL. To be stationary means a temporary condition of not moving. The distinction is beyond mere words.

The -57's levcons are MOVEABLE structure. They are not connected to the fuselage but to the wings and displace when there is a need for it.

They don't dehave like conards or stabalizers...
They do not need to.

Let me entertain your claim and pretend the LEVCONS behave like conards or stabalizers--which they obviously do not. The challenge engineers face is controlling radiators, however for some, LEVCONs have become the subject of trolling. The designers blended the LEVONS as to minimize returns, they used platform alignment and to some extent absorbers.
Regarding the highlighted, the three rules are:

- Control of QUANTITY of radiators
- Control of ARRAY of radiators
- Control of MODES of radiation


At timestamp 00:59 this is what we see...

y0LXVUG.jpg


The levcons are leading edge (LE) down. Not fully deflected down as we have seen some images when the jet is on the ground. But in the above in-flight video at that timestamp, they levcons are LE down just enough to create a gap from the fuselage that is unacceptable for the F-22, F-35, F-117, and B-2. Those gaps falls under Rule 2: Control of ARRAY of radiators.

The LEVCON behave very much like a slat as apposed to a active flight congrol surface.
Opposed? No.

I learned how to fly before I got my driver's license, so when I say 'active', based upon my yrs of aviation experience, in and out of the military, the -57's levcons are ACTIVE flight controls elements. They move and affect aerodynamics? Then they are ACTIVE. There is no 'opposed' about it.

Above you mentioned control of radiators. Do the following now bend the rules of physics?

All of the following are discontinuities and the challenge now becomes controlling those radiators, which are present on all aircraft including F-22/35.

-Elevator
-Aileron
-Slats
-Flaps
-Rudder
I do not dispute the items you listed as having negative effects on controlling total RCS on any aircraft. However, they are necessary flight controls elements. Not only that, they are MAJOR structures. One major item missing from your list: fins

Of all the major structures, the F-22 have two wings, two vertical stabs, and two horizontal stabs. Total of six structures.

Of all the major structures, the Su-57 have two wings, two vertical stabs, two horizontal stabs, and the two levcons. Total of eight structures.

This make the -57 LESS OBEDIENT to Rule 1: Control of QUANTITY of radiators.

We have seen visual evidence of the levcons being physically distinct from the wings and the fuselage. Those gaps from the fuselage maybe a few mm but they are just enough to raise the jet's total RCS to the point where the jet is more detectable than the F-22/35 at the same distance and same aspect angle.

I said 'are'. I did not say 'maybe'. I am that confident of my argument.

If the smallest possible RCS is the goal, in the perfect world a "stealth" aircraft would have no engines, intakes, flaps, or panels because all created "radiators". All aircraft including the SU-57 have compromise that balance kenetic performance, cost and stealth.
I agree to everything.

You cannot simply say all aircrafts have compromises. Of course all have compromises. However, the issue is the degree of obedience to the three rules. All of the items you listed contributed to the decreasing obedience to the rules. Some design will be less obedient than others.

I only claimed it was good enough to satisfy the RuAF requirements and Sukhoi. The engineers are pleased with the overall performance in which they clearly made sacrifices in 'stealth' to create an all around good platform that satisfies their requirements and not some imaginary stealth standards set by PDF armchair generals.
In military history, there are points where there is no turning back, meaning a certain tactic or technology cannot be missing from a military. If that tactic or technology is missing, that military will be defeated.

The machine gun, or more accurately, the repeating firearm is one such point. If an army does not have repeating firearm, it will lose.

So, if you are satisfied with the single shot rifle, does that mean you will win against an army that have machine guns?

The Su-57 may satisfy the Russian Air Force's requirements, but in a fight, how does that guarantee victory? This is not Russians against Russians. It could be Russians against Americans. And if our jets are less radar observable, you will lose.

Yes, they do, I was specifically speaking about what leading edge extensions do in regards to lift and maneuverability as well as the similar platform alignment and shape the F-22s leading edge extensions as well as the SU-57s "LEVCONS" have/provide.
No, the F-22 do not have the same LE flight controls structures like the -57.

r20OLUj.jpg


In the above image, on the -57's port wing, there are two PHYSICALLY DISTINCT ACTIVE flight controls elements: the LE flaps and the levcons. Energy wise, there WILL be two spikes on port side, one from the levcon and one from wing's LE flap.

The F-22 have nothing similar. The F-22 do have LE extensions, but they are truly fixed and blended with the fuselage.
 
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This is not Russians against Russians. It could be Russians against Americans. And if our jets are less radar observable, you will lose.

If anyone invades Russia land, Russia nukes their capital. Russians don't even bother with conventional warfare. Russian lives are precious. You want conventional warfare and bully Russians with population advantage? Russians don't even give you that luxury. You won't even have that luxury.
 
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So, if you are satisfied with the single shot rifle, does that mean you will win against an army that have machine guns?

Single shot rifles is way more accurate than machine guns. Reason why snipers use bolt action rifles, not machines guns. Duh.

Stones are still the best material and the most expensive material for construction despite being used for hundreds of thousands of years.
 
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