Su-57 Program Cancelled

[nahtanbob]

Su-57 ain't for sale. Not to India. Not to anyone. There's gonna be so much backlog for the next few decades anyway. 200 Su-27 are reaching the end of their fuselage lifespan. These will be replaced by new build Su-35 and Su-57. Syria air force gets about 50 ex Russian Su-27 and another 50 ex Russian MiG-29.

the russians can speak for that.
the su-57 was first variant of the PAK-FA project

 

[polanski]

Wow. You are so smart you are smarter than Sukhoi engineers. NOT!

Woow Sukhoi has employed engineer? How did they build this Su-57 Sh$t?

Su-57 ain't for sale. Not to India. Not to anyone. There's gonna be so much backlog for the next few decades anyway. 200 Su-27 are reaching the end of their fuselage lifespan. These will be replaced by new build Su-35 and Su-57. Syria air force gets about 50 ex Russian Su-27 and another 50 ex Russian MiG-29.

Hey Dumbo, India withdrew from the PAK-FA program which introduced T-50 Prototype AKA su-57. It was joint venture between India and Russia. Then Russia stole money from India and refused to provide information on progress of the Su-57. You are begging to Turkey to revive the project. You begged Indian again to return to the project.
Stop your BS. Stop making things up. You have no clue what you talking about.

 

[gambit]

Because Su-57 levcon can be put in stealth mode in such a way that there will be no difference whether it exist or not at all.

If the levcons are ACTIVE flight control surfaces, then there is no such thing as a 'stealth' mode for them.

A ventral fin is a flight control surface. A PASSIVE flight control surface. It is fixed. Not moving.

If the levcons on the -57 are ACTIVE flight control surfaces, meaning the flight controls system requires their movements in order to maintain stable flight, then switching them into inactive state would limit the jet's maneuverability.

Putting some flight control surfaces into certain states is not new and not controversial.

On the F-16, when the pilot put the landing gear handle down, the wings' leading edge (LE) flaps are lowered into a fixed position. But putting the landing gear handle down means a unique flight state: take-off and landing.

On the F-111, when the landing gear handle is down and there is weight-on-wheels (WOW), the wings' spoilers deploy, killing lift and create drag.

So there is nothing unusual about putting the flight controls surfaces into certain positions or states. I used those two jets because I was on them when I was active duty. You are not talking to the usual fanboy here. I am a fanboy but one with actual military and aviation experience. I learned how to fly in high school, before I got my driver's license. When I joined the USAF, when it came to aviation, I was already ahead of my class.

That said...Is it possible to put the -57's levcons into a fixed position to reduce its EM radiation output? Yes, it is possible, but so far, this so called 'stealth' mode for the levcons have not been OFFICIALLY confirmed. Maybe I am not up to date on what Su published. In that case, you MUST correct me.

If the -57's levcons can be put into a fixed state to reduce EM radiation output, under what flight condition(s)? We are asking about the combination(s) of altitude, airspeed, and attitude, the three most crucial flight parameters required by the flight controls computer (FLCC). If the levcons can be manually fixed, meaning at will, and if the pilot does it while under a maneuver like a simple aileron roll, it can put the jet into uncontrolled flight because those three flight parameters are used by the FLCC to calculate flight controls surface displacement, including that of the levcons.

I know what I am talking about here...

Take the simple pitch up maneuver. When the pilot pull back on the stick, a closed loop operation occurs inside the FLCC. The control stick commands the rear horizontal stabs to displace leading edge (LE) down, or trailing edge (TE) up. As the jet responds, the pitch rate gyro and the pitch rate accelerometer inputs into the FLCC on what the jet is actually doing. The FLCC calculate the current airspeed, altitude, and attitude to make adjustments to how much the rear stabs actually move. Any disruption to this closed loop operation and the jet WILL depart from controlled flight.

Now take this simple pitch up maneuver and multiply 10x for complex maneuvers as in a fight. If the -57's pilot MANUALLY put the levcons into a fixed position, the jet will depart from controlled flight. The FLCC does not know when the pilot will do that. Putting the levcons ABRUPTLY into a fixed position will disrupt airflow throughout the jet's aerodynamic envelope in that particular maneuver.

Stop your BS. Stop making things up. You have no clue what you talking about.

He is nothing but a low IQ troll.

I graduated from University of Waterloo.

More like you graduated from the University of The Loo where you learned only how to spew crap.

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

Stealth ain't everything. Russians don't play hide and seek. Americans don't dare fight Russia. Not before. Not now. Not ever.

 

[Ultima Thule]

Stealth ain't everything. Russians don't play hide and seek. Americans don't dare fight Russia. Not before. Not now. Not ever.

Same for russia they also not dare to fight against might of US arm forces, you can't predict the future kid there isno Future wars between superpower @undertakerwwefan

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

Same for russia they also not dare to fight against might of US arm forces, you can't predict the future kid there isno Future wars between superpower @undertakerwwefan

What do you mean I can't predict the future? The sun rises tomorrow. Probability 100%. America Russia war probability 0 unless America is no longer a republic and leader does not care about casualty.

The LEVCONs are not an issue. During cruise they are blended into LERX. They only deflect during dogfight maneuvers at which point stealth is irrelevant.

 

[ptldM3]

You're spreading a nonsense here not me, if you add extra surface on air frame (LAVCON) then its give extra surface area to the radar its simple physics isn't Mr, TROLLER @zzzz

You are as ignorant as they come and making a fool out of yourself, I explained to you about LEVCONs, what you are claiming is defying all known physics. The LEVCONs are not extra anything, they are leading edge detentions, they are part of the airframe and they stay in a fixed position. Every aircraft is a complex design with dimensions varying greatly. Lets look at the F-22, it has larger vertical stabilizers thus it has "more surface" or at the least that's what a subject person would claims if they had the same talking points as you. What about the B-2? It would be even worse since its airframe is one large wing surface.

Every aircraft is complex, the challenge is controlling EM energy by redirecting it and to an extent absorbing it. Throwing out wild claims about surface area and LEVCONs makes you a dishonest troll since you arnt even trying to be fair or subject.



Whatever you want to call it--LEVCON or leading edge extension, both aircraft have it.

Here is a close up, the LEVCON don't move, not in stable flight, and not during maneuvers. While you can clearly see the horizontal stabalizers constantly working to keep the aircraft stable. The only logical argument that can be made about the LEVCON is that it's a discontinuity, however other aircraft such as the F-35!have plenty of those as well.

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

Throwing out wild claims about surface area and LEVCONs makes you a dishonest troll since you arnt even trying to be fair or subject.

LEVCON is not canards. They blend into LERX when they are not used. They are not deflected during cruise. They are only deflected to increase agility during dogfight at which point RCS is not important. That's why Su-57 retains rear flaps. LEXCONS are bonus. They are not canards which by definition replace rear flaps.

 

[Ultima Thule]

What do you mean I can't predict the future? The sun rises tomorrow. Probability 100%. America Russia war probability 0 unless America is no longer a republic and leader does not care about casualty.

The LEVCONs are not an issue. During cruise they are blended into LERX. They only deflect during dogfight maneuvers at which point stealth is irrelevant.

you can't predict future what will happen tomorrow let alone after 5/10/20 years why your'e so 100% confident that's their is no wars in the future in between superpowers, you can't predict the future only god knows what haapen in the future @undertakerwwefan

as for LAVCON they are useless at cruise because you're crap jet is in friendly airspace, but in dogfight its matters because enemy jets can't detect your crap jet earlier, without LAVCON its slight chance your jet don't detect/engage by enemy, with LAVCON you have slight chance to be detected and destroyed by the your enemy first, that main disadvantages LAVCON @undertakerwwefan

You are as ignorant as they come and making a fool out of yourself, I explained to you about LEVCONs, what you are claiming is defying all known physics. The LEVCONs are not extra anything, they are leading edge detentions, they are part of the airframe and they stay in a fixed position. Every aircraft is a complex design with dimensions varying greatly. Lets look at the F-22, it has larger vertical stabilizers thus it has "more surface" or at the least that's what a subject person would claims if they had the same talking points as you. What about the B-2? It would be even worse since its airframe is one large wing surface.

Every aircraft is complex, the challenge is controlling EM energy by redirecting it and to an extent absorbing it. Throwing out wild claims about surface area and LEVCONs makes you a dishonest troll since you arnt even trying to be fair or subject.



Whatever you want to call it--LEVCON or leading edge extension, both aircraft have it.


View attachment 520850


Here is a close up, the LEVCON don't move, not in stable flight, and not during maneuvers.

Yeah mythical Russian physic, carry on @ptldM3

 

[ptldM3]

you can't predict future what will happen tomorrow let alone after 5/10/20 years why your'e so 100% confident that's their is no wars in the future in between superpowers, you can't predict the future only god knows what haapen in the future @undertakerwwefan

as for LAVCON they are useless at cruise because you're crap jet is in friendly airspace, but in dogfight its matters because enemy jets can't detect your crap jet earlier, without LAVCON its slight chance your jet don't detect/engage by enemy, with LAVCON you have slight chance to be detected and destroyed by the your enemy first, that main disadvantages LAVCON @undertakerwwefan


Yeah mythical Russian physic, carry on @ptldM3

Says the kindergarter that can't spell the word physics

You have yet to disprove anything I said and I am still waiting for that quote that proves I could not provide sources as you claimed. So were is it liar?

You want to keep making false accusations?

 

[Ultima Thule]

LEVCON is not canards. They blend into LERX when they are not used. They are not deflected during cruise. They are only deflected to increase agility during dogfight at which point RCS is not important. That's why Su-57 retains rear flaps. LEXCONS are bonus. They are not canards which by definition replace rear flaps.

you're knows nothing, at cruise phase you're in friendly airspace and thus it useless, but matters in dogfights, in aviation especially in military aviation the term use "SEE FIRST SHOOT FIRST" and it modified form of CANARD, in dogfight you're illuminated by multiple source (enemy ground based radars, enemy AWACS,enemy fighter jet radars, enemy IR sensors and other ISR plate forms etc etc) think logically and use the commonsense @undertakerwwefan

Says the kindergarter that can't spell the word physics

You have yet to disprove anything I said and I am still waiting for that quote that proves I could not provide sources as you claimed. So were is it liar?

You want to keep making false accusations?

Yeah, its a Russian mythical physics , Carry on @ptldM3

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

you can't predict future what will happen tomorrow let alone after 5/10/20 years why your'e so 100% confident that's their is no wars in the future in between superpowers

Because now they are all democratic. Democratic countries can't afford wars because 1 casualty = lose election.

Says the kindergarter that can't spell the word physics

You have yet to disprove anything I said and I am still waiting for that quote that proves I could not provide sources as you claimed. So were is it liar?

You want to keep making false accusations?

That's right. LEVCON only activates in dogfights. They are not replacements of rear flaps. Planes that have canards don't have rear flaps.

you're knows nothing, at cruise phase you're in friendly airspace and thus it useless, but matters in dogfights, in aviation especially in military aviation the term use "SEE FIRST SHOOT FIRST" and it modified form of CANARD, in dogfight you're illuminated by multiple source (enemy ground based radars, enemy AWACS,enemy fighter jet radars, enemy IR sensors and other ISR plate forms etc etc) think logically and use the commonsense @undertakerwwefan

Shut up. Nobody cares about your war mongering.

 

[Ultima Thule]

Because now they are all democratic. Democratic countries can't afford wars because 1 casualty = lose election.

what bogus logic you have @undertakerwwefan democratic or Communist it doesn't matters, if wars is/will come certain global geopolitical situation is/will throw you into war, like USA did in WW2 @undertakerwwefan

That's right. LEVCON only activates in dogfights. They are not replacements of rear flaps. Planes that have canards don't have rear flaps.

So you mean Su-57 have a rear flaps this means, Rear flaps + LAVCON, rear flap has own radar returns+ LAVCON has own radar returns, which means increase in RCS, rear flaps+LAVCON, this means you will be detected and shot by the enemy first @undertakerwwefan

Shut up. Nobody cares about your war mongering.

where is the war mongering comes in my this post i just telling you the concepts and ideas behind the Stealth jet survivals in dogfights and overall@undertakerwwefan

 

[nahtanbob]

Stealth ain't everything. Russians don't play hide and seek. Americans don't dare fight Russia. Not before. Not now. Not ever.

TRANSLATION: I cannot figure out how to make a stealth aircraft work

 

[ptldM3]

you're knows nothing, at cruise phase you're in friendly airspace and thus it useless, but matters in dogfights, in aviation especially in military aviation the term use "SEE FIRST SHOOT FIRST" and it modified form of CANARD, in dogfight you're illuminated by multiple source (enemy ground based radars, enemy AWACS,enemy fighter jet radars, enemy IR sensors and other ISR plate forms etc etc) think logically and use the commonsense @undertakerwwefan


Yeah, its a Russian mythical physics , Carry on @ptldM3

The leading edge extension (LAVCONs as you call them) are NOT canards, and do not behave like them. They are not an active flight control surface like stabilizers are. I have posted video evidence that you continue denying.


Notice the shape of the SU-57s leading edge extensions are similar to that of the F-22.

Notice how both aircraft have their leading edge extensions line up parallel to leading edge flaps as well as other areas. Having something there like a LEVCON/leading edge extension doesn't mean it will magically make the aircraft appear on radar. The SU-57 designers clearly incorporated platform alignment.

It is however clear both you and @nahtanbob are trolls, and extremely challenged/mentally delayed.