Su-30MKI & JF-17 Air Fight

[zombie:-)]

^^^

su-30mki is NOT PRIMARILY A STRIKE AIRCRAFT

come on man do you know f-15e strike eagle ...its is as capable as f-15 eagle but is also optimized primarily for strike roles...WE ARE NOT AS RICH AS USA TO FIELD SIMILAR AIRCRAFT TYPES TO BOTH ROLES SEPERATELY

SPARES......

su-30 mki is being built in INDIA from 2004 .....why "would you run for milk to your friend when you have a living and healthy cow with you and you know how to milk the cow too"

Please, stop the approach, when you cannot face facts than start acting dumb.

stop assuming things or ask the same question to the person who said to you that half the fleets are grounded due to unavailability of spares WHERE ARE THE FACTS CLAIMED BY YOU ....yes there was a shortage of tyres and it has been solved now

MR.HJ786 PLEASE SHOW ME ONE LINK WHERE ITS SHOWN THAT SU-30MKI FLEW 1 ON 1 ON F-16S OR F-15S IN RED FLAG
as far as i know it was only for strike role

 

[zombie:-)]

Facts for your eyes:

dcDnmOZiVIQ[/media] - JF 17 Thunder Fighter (New Video April 2009) Pak-China Evolution

you show me fanboy compilation and call it fact

 

[BATMAN]

you show me fanboy compilation and call it fact

If you don't accept vedio as a fact than I don't see you expecting the written facts as well.

BTW, what is fact for U?

 

[zombie:-)]

If you don't accept vedio as a fact than I don't see you expecting the written facts as well.

BTW, what is fact for U?

yea tomorrow ill post a video of a mig-21 bis shooting down F-22 in BVR will it become a fact .....long back malymishra had said people saying jf-17 will give a worthy fight to the mki are as good (naive) as Indian fan boys saying that the mki will whoop the f-22.

 

[zraver]

You are contradicting yourself in your post. While you accuse me of having double standards, you are doing the same in the 3rd and the 4th point.

Cope India had Su-30s and F-15/16's employing the same rules laid down. Su-30's were not using many of their capabilities so werent the F-15's. Since both were equally handicapped, the battle was fair, and Su-30s whooped the F-15/16's.

In correct, the USAF was outnumbered 3 and 4-1 there were no SU-30MKI at Cope India.

In the Red Flag, you had Su-30's handicapping themselves. All other fighters including F-15/f-16s were using most of their "necessary" capabilities. Su-30 was blind.

What happened to the Indians at Red Flag was to be expected. The aggressor pilots are the best in the world, the SU-30MKI's were not blind. They tried to do things against pilots who were training against the F-22 it was a recipe for disaster and it was.

Whether or not you want to believe the facts is not my problem, because I am thoroughly convinced about Su-30's superiority. And to add to my claim, the USAF Colonel himself admitted that Su-30s were far better than F-15/16.

The SU-30MKI is superior to anything in the PAF inventory. And in some missions its better than the F-15, in others its not. The F-15C with AESA is a better BVR air dominance fighter and the F-15E is a better bomber but the SU-30MKI is a better dog fighter and interceptor. Its not even a contest v the F-16 as they are dissimilar aircraft. Tha tis not to say that a good pilot in an F-16blk52 with AMRAAAMS won't toast a mediocre pilot or even an exceptional pilot in an SU-30MKI if they get the jump on them that is the nature of A2A combat- see first- shoot first- win.

 

[BATMAN]

yea tomorrow ill post a video of a mig-21 bis shooting down F-22 in BVR will it become a fact .....long back malymishra had said people saying jf-17 will give a worthy fight to the mki are as good (naive) as Indian fan boys saying that the mki will whoop the f-22.

Don't you think that you are going a bit out of context and this is why I hate to debate with indians.
It all started with some ignorant asking about electronics of THUNDER.
Following are his exact words:

At this stage wat the JF17 carries in terms of electronics and armament is conjecture.

People are mixing conjecture and like to have with FACT.

 

[maverick2009]

Su30mki in red Flag flew with Radar switched to training mode only to avoid their signals being picked up by USA Awacs stationed 100 miles away.

Su30 mki pilots had no Awacs link up because the mki IS NOT A STANDARD Nato fighter and could not be intergrated in time for start of the excercise.

Su30 mki where flying in a world class air base against world class pilots of USA WHO HAD advantage of Awacs support and full radar use on their planes. In adittion they are in their own back yard.

The USA airforce pilot in vedio clearly states the SU30MKI is marginally superior to USA legacy fighters ie F15/F16. But is far inferior to F22/JSF...

Living in the UK I CAN CONFIRM the basic Flanker su30k destroyed the Tornado F3 of the RAF in cope india. More importantly the better SU30MKI was a rea handful for even the Typhoon Pilots in waddington UK.

This thread and various posters for months are debating can a JF17 live with and survive on a regular basis against the best combat plane in South Asia as we speak.
For the JF17 TO DO THIS it has be comparable to the USA F15 F16 fighters in terms of radar, weapons, and jamming,,...

 

[BATMAN]

^^ I thought you were asking about 1 to 1 dog fight senario.
No AWACS can help in dog fights and this was what happened to your sooper drooper SU30 every time it got slugish it got roasted.
So it clearly lost in 1 to 1 dog fight.
You may not had data link with AWACS but you were allowed to use radios and where ever you kept your radars off, was at your own will, which you were using to your own advantage.
I'm repeatedly saying that there will be no senario where a fighter jet would be allowed to fly on its own so the advantage of radar goes down to minimal.
In such senarios if THUNDER tackels SU30 no one can say who will come out as winner.
IMO, it will be human factor (over all engagement) which will be decisive element in any future encounters.

What are your reasons for underestimating THUNDER's radar, wepons and ECM suite?

PAF has already shifted to net centric war fare so never under-estimate THUNDER even when its radar is completely off.

 

[godsavetheworld]

^^ I thought you were asking about 1 to 1 dog fight senario.
No AWACS can help in dog fights and this was what happened to your sooper drooper SU30 every time it got slugish it got roasted.
So it clearly lost in 1 to 1 dog fight.
You may not had data link with AWACS but you were allowed to use radios and where ever you kept your radars off, was at your own will, which you were using to your own advantage.
.

Dude wth are you talking. The Su-30 was BLIND. It is impossible to win any air-combat of this age without an active radar unless ofcourse you competing a Sabre against a F-22.

And you can never win a dog fight over a radio!. Imagine a world-class fighter engaging you, and youre asking "Is he friendly?". You'll be toasted before you even reach the word "friendly".

 

[maverick2009]

Batman

The Thunder is not yet operational Yet various threads are being opened up about JF17 needing a new radar, new engine, new weapons, and changing the alloy structure to composites etc etc. They are calling it JF17MK2 or JF18 in some cases.

In particular we seem to believe the French can use Rafale technolgy to improve JF17 in future.

It just seems a bit premature to me.

People really need to give this plane a chance to arrive and perform first

It will never be a SU30MKI or a F18SH or a Rafael because these are twin engined super fighters.

JF17 is single engined low cost low maintance mass production war plane..

It can,t carry the same no of weapons jammers and radar capability. It will never match the flanker for speed and power. But like you people say it is smaller and has less RCS AND COSTS only one third the price of a flanker.

 

[maverick2009]

Batman

The Thunder is not yet operational Yet various threads are being opened up about JF17 needing a new radar, new engine, new weapons, and changing the alloy structure to composites etc etc. They are calling it JF17MK2 or JF18 in some cases.

In particular we seem to believe the French can use Rafale technolgy to improve JF17 in future.

It just seems a bit premature to me.

People really need to give this plane a chance to arrive and perform first

It will never be a SU30MKI or a F18SH or a Rafael because these are twin engined super fighters.

JF17 is single engined low cost low maintance mass production war plane..

It can,t carry the same no of weapons jammers and radar capability. It will never match the flanker for speed and power. But like you people say it is smaller and has less RCS AND COSTS only one third the price of a flanker.

 

[hj786]

But then its only the same people talking about LCA mark 2 when the mark 1 is still not operational yet. So you can't really criticise people for doing it, can you?
The point is that with a new and more powerful engine, radar/avionics, new weapons, advanced light-weight materials etc, the JF-17 mark 2/block 2 would be able to compete with Rafale, F-18 SH, MKI on equal terms (negligible disadvantage in thrust/weight, radar range, weapon capability, etc.) while still being ~half the price.

 

[IceCold]

yea tomorrow ill post a video of a mig-21 bis shooting down F-22 in BVR will it become a fact .....long back malymishra had said people saying jf-17 will give a worthy fight to the mki are as good (naive) as Indian fan boys saying that the mki will whoop the f-22.

While staying out side the line of discussion you and Batman were having, just one bit of something i wanted to comment on, i usually discourage Pakistani people here from underestimating the MKI for obvious reasons and you will find the same in many of my posts and i would agree that certain people do get carried away, patriotism you may call it but however coming back i would say that in a home environment JF-17 will give a worthy fight to the MKI and its not some sort of fan boy thing, you see in an event of conflict, we are not talking about a 1 on 1 thing, there will be numerous factors involved most notably the AWACS which will heavily influence the outcome of any conflict. So to believe that everytime an MKI faces a JF-17, it will come on top is a bit naive because JF-17 is something which is heavily influenced from the experience of our PAF pilots on the F-16 and F-16 was and still is our front line fighter something that IAF still worries about so unless you are completely of no opinion about the F-16 you cannot simply discount JF-17 just like that.

 

[sancho]

The point is that with a new and more powerful engine, radar/avionics, new weapons, advanced light-weight materials etc, the JF-17 mark 2/block 2 would be able to compete with Rafale, F-18 SH, MKI on equal terms (negligible disadvantage in thrust/weight, radar range, weapon capability, etc.) while still being ~half the price.

With all respect but this is more than doubtfull! These fighters are in totally different classes and of course won't stay the same as they are now. They also will get better radars, engines, airframe changes for more internal fuel and less RCS. I am telling it to everybody who compares LCA Mk2 with MMRCA too, different classes and no where near to be a match.
Realisticly LCA and JF 17 can match older Gripen and F16 versions now, with better techs improved versions (Mk2/3, or block 2/3) hopefully can match Gripen NG and F16 block 60, but anything above is just a dream.

 

[Super Falcon]

if jf 17 has a better radar and avionics than SU 30 than there is a chance it can beat SU 30 MKI