Su 30 sm . VS an Israeli F15 strike eagle in Syria

[Desertfalcon]

Israel is not stupid enough to shoot down a Russian fighter. Russia and Israel co-operate very closely. Russia crossed into Israeli airspace a few times with no action taken by the Israelis. this is due to close communication.
also i thin bringing in the su-30sm specifically referencing Iran vs Israel. l as Iran is looking to buy the su30-sm.
the sm model is loosely based of mki from India so Israel can quiet easily train with India and learn the fighters weaknesses and use it to their advantage when necessary.

You may be right and I don't believe the story anyway. I was pointing out in my previous post however, that Israel DID shoot down several Soviet fighters so that she wouldn't shoot down a Russian one today, would have more to do with the reasons you state, than any fear on Israel’s part.

 

[Blue Marlin]

You may be right and I don't believe the story anyway. I was pointing out in my previous post however, that Israel DID shoot down several Soviet fighters so that she wouldn't shoot down a Russian one today, would have more to do with the reasons you state, than any fear on Israel’s part.

that was back in the old days. today things work out differently. also it depends who shoots down what. in most cases war is avoided and relations drop. turkey and turkey is a prime example. but Israel is not even stupid to even shoot down a Russian jet but if it was Syrian or even an Iranian fighter then their finger may just slip and hit the lock-on and fire switch.

 

[Desertfalcon]

that was back in the old days. today things work out differently. also it depends who shoots down what. in most cases war is avoided and relations drop. turkey and turkey is a prime example. but Israel is not even stupid to even shoot down a Russian jet but if it was Syrian or even an Iranian fighter then their finger may just slip and hit the lock-on and fire switch.

I don't know if you missed my post to the other fellow, but in his similar assertion my response was...

"In 1970, the Soviet Union was vastly more militarily powerful with far greater reach and sphere's of control than today's Russia, and Israel was far less militarily powerful then than she is in 2016. As well, the dangers and potential consequences of Operation Rimon in 1970 were, in the midst of a global Cold War, far greater than a clash between Israel and Russia would be today."

 

[Blue Marlin]

I don't know if you missed my post to the other fellow, but in his similar assertion my response was...

"In 1970, the Soviet Union was vastly more militarily powerful with far greater reach and sphere's of control than today's Russia, and Israel was far less militarily powerful then than she is in 2016. As well, the dangers and potential consequences of Operation Rimon in 1970 were, in the midst of a global Cold War, far greater than a clash between Israel and Russia would be today."

nope i saw that

 

[Syed Hussain]

Russia may not have the strength it once had but it's still a hundred years early for a country like Israel to meddle with it on its own. And if it was just about dog fights than labour a bit to dig your memories a little on the fact that PAF has downed 10 Israeli jets in dog fights with zero losses. And same Mig-21 flown by a PAF pilot "Sattar Alvi" shot down both the Mirage-3's and F-4's of the IAF.

 

[vizier]

There were several bombings inside Syria after Russia already stationed there. Even after S400 was in place there was a surgical strike that killed about 10 hezbollah members in Damascus. Before that there was a strike as well. Maybe S300 Pantsyr and Buk batteries were jammed as they seem to be vulnurable to latest ecm systems of israel like pre-Russian presence attacks but one thing is for sure there was no word from Russian side after the Israeli attacks.

I doubt that Su 30 would be ordered to intercept any israeli plane anytime soon unless it directly threatens operations or a major attack targeting Syrian government officials. If it is an attack against Hezbollah members or ammunition used by Hezbollah for example nothing will happen. Also about Iran and Hezbollah side this should not be reacted emotionally yes it shows that alliance is not current Russian leaderships prior aim but these things happen and tides can change. Major issue Iranian side needs to work on to improve in these matters and in general is to keep calm and self control and play colder not emotional bursts that would block future gain.

It is interesting that without any resources to offer to Russia or size,location or anything else Israel has that much influence over Russia compared to Iran for example. There is this Putins aim of getting relations back to normal with west and regain their approval after Ukraine issue and maybe israel as an influential player about relations with west keeps Putin silent. Another reason might be technology transfer as most of their weapons other than the newest ones were hacked by Israel at least once throughout 4 years.

But I think approval seeking moves should be limited or preferably not made as they seem to not to change the tide with west and Russia. Also it is counterproductive. For example who would choose to be a member of Sco other than its economic benefits if they have the Nato option if Russia accepts demands and conditions that would turn Syria the next Libya within several years. It is better to give up this cold war mentality of thinking two major players and others as cards to play with. Usa seems to play this new game better eventhough speaks with the old language with Putin.

 

[Penguin]

Israel can't make any planes. The ones Israel have won't last a week in war.

Oh really? Against who? 6 Russian Su-30?

Russia may not have the strength it once had but it's still a hundred years early for a country like Israel to meddle with it on its own. And if it was just about dog fights than labour a bit to dig your memories a little on the fact that PAF has downed 10 Israeli jets in dog fights with zero losses. And same Mig-21 flown by a PAF pilot "Sattar Alvi" shot down both the Mirage-3's and F-4's of the IAF.

During the opening attacks of the 1967 Six-Day War, Egypt lost around 100 out of about 110 MiG-21s they had, almost all on the ground; Syria lost 35 of 60 MiG-21F-13s and MiG-21PFs in the air and on the ground.

Between the end of the Six-Day War and the start of the War of Attrition, IDF Mirage fighters had six confirmed kills of Egyptian MiG-21s, in exchange for Egyptian MiG-21s scoring two confirmed and three probable kills against Israeli aircraft.

During the War of Attrition itself, Israel claimed 56 confirmed kills against Egyptian MiG-21s, while Egyptian MiG-21s claimed 14 confirmed and 12 probable kills against IDF aircraft. During this same time period, from the end of the Six Day War to the end of the War of Attrition, Israel claimed a total of 25 Syrian MiG-21s destroyed; the Syrians claimed three confirmed and four probable kills of Israel aircraft.

In September 1973, a large air battle erupted between Syria and Israel; Israel claimed a total of 12 Syrian MiG-21s destroyed, while Syria claimed eight kills scored by MiG-21s and admitted five losses.

During the Yom Kippur War, Israel claimed 73 kills against Egyptian MiG-21s (65 confirmed). Egypt claimed 27 confirmed kills against Israeli aircraft by its MiG-21s, plus eight probables. However, according to most Israeli sources, these were exaggerated claims as Israeli air-to-air combat losses for the entire war did not exceed five to fifteen.

On the Syrian front of the war, 6 October 1973 saw a flight of Syrian MiG-21MFs shoot down an IDF A-4E and a Mirage IIICJ while losing three of their own to Israeli IAI Neshers. On 7 October, Syrian MiG-21MFs downed two Israeli F-4Es, three Mirage IIICJs and an A-4E while losing two of their MiGs to Neshers and one to an F-4E, plus two to friendly SAM fire. Iraqi MiG-21PFs also operated on this front, and on that same day destroyed two A-4Es while losing one MiG. On 8 October 1973, Syrian MiG-21PFMs downed three F-4Es, but six of their MiG-21s were lost. By the end of the war, Syrian MiG-21s claimed a total of 30 confirmed kills against Israeli aircraft; 29 MiG-21s were claimed (26 confirmed) as destroyed by the IDF.

Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-21 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[mike2000 is back]

I don't know if you missed my post to the other fellow, but in his similar assertion my response was...

"In 1970, the Soviet Union was vastly more militarily powerful with far greater reach and sphere's of control than today's Russia, and Israel was far less militarily powerful then than she is in 2016. As well, the dangers and potential consequences of Operation Rimon in 1970 were, in the midst of a global Cold War, far greater than a clash between Israel and Russia would be today."

Agree 100%. terror group Hezbollah and its Iranian patron seem to be living in a delusional world where they think Russia is in Syria to do their bid. lol They also think Russia will be willing to go to war against Israel for their sake. lol
What they forgot is that Israel has quite normal relations for a long time now(irregardless of the fact that Israel is a strong western ally). Granted the conflict in Syria might have strained those relations, but surprisingly they still maintain quite good relations and cooperate even in Syria.
Israel has no reason to shoot down a Russian fighter in Syria(not because they are scared per se), but simplysimply because it won't really change much. Israeli planes still patrol Syrian skies when they think its necessary. So WIN-WIN for both countries.

 

[Penguin]

Besides, Israeli's are Russian ;-)

'Jews and Others' Born Abroad by Country of Birth

Source: Central Bureau of Statistics. 2005 Press Release Eve of 57th Independence Day.
Note: The figures in the chart do not include 1.4 million Arabs.

Israel: Balancing Demographics in the Jewish State | migrationpolicy.org

Jews have been moving to Israel in large numbers since well before the United Nations recognized it as a state in 1948, and Europe has consistently been the main origin of emigres.
More than three-quarters of the nearly 500,000 people who migrated between the end of World War I and 1948 came from Europe, according to the Israel Central Bureau of Statistics. Since then, more than half of people to make use of the country’s policy allowing Jews to move there have come from Europe.
Historically, Eastern Europe has dominated the European migration to Israel. Of the nearly 1.9 million people to emigrate from Europe to Israel between 1948 and last November, the latest available date, 92 percent moved from or were born in Bulgaria, Hungary, Poland, Romania or the European countries that were formerly part of Czechoslovakia, the Soviet Union and Yugoslavia. '

The flow from former Soviet Europe to Israel is even more dramatic when considering the size of the source population.

A Historical Look At The Immigration Of French Jews To Israel | FiveThirtyEight

 

[banvanaxl]

Israel can't make any planes. The ones Israel have won't last a week in war.

The neighbors tried and tried again .. and look where they are now ..

Egypt .. Poof ..
Syria .. Poof
Lebanon Poof
PLO Poof
Iraq Poof ..


Bottom line is .. YOU DO NOT MESS WITH ISRAEL

 

[SecularNationalist]

Well those Israelis definitely don,t afford to poke a big brown Russian bear But as far the training goes Israeli pilots are very well trained and are capable of giving russian pilots a hard time.But again at the end they will lose.

 

[Oublious]

Well those Israelis definitely don,t afford to poke a big brown Russian bear But as far the training goes Israeli pilots are very well trained and are capable of giving russian pilots a hard time.But again at the end they will lose.

Explain why they will lose? Israel have much better missiles, missile what can turn 180° when they mis the target. Ther EW suite is much much better, and ther radar ther is no much differences. Su30 can make circus tricks but in the end they will lose.

 

[SecularNationalist]

Explain why they will lose? Israel have much better missiles, missile what can turn 180° when they mis the target. Ther EW suite is much much better, and ther radar ther is no much differences. Su30 can make circus tricks but in the end they will lose.

I know these days turkey and Russia have really bad relations but your hate for each other does not change the facts.
Russians have a numerical and technical superiority over Israel.Russia can sustain war for much longer time period because their resources are huge.Shooting a plane or firing a missile one time or even three times does not decide who is a winner or who is a loser.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

I know these days turkey and Russia have really bad relations but your hate for each other does not change the facts.
Russians have a numerical and technical superiority over Israel.Russia can sustain war for much longer time period because their resources are huge.Shooting a plane or firing a missile one time or even three times does not decide who is a winner or who is a loser.

And how do You expect Russia to fight a war against Israel?
Logistics will be a nightmare, US/NATO certainly wont be helpful there,
and no way, Russia can project the full power of its military.
It would be no surprise if the U.S. would replenish Israel.

It is anyway not in the interest of Russia nor Israel to fight a war,
so even discussing it, is a waste of time.

 

[bidonv]

This syrian war has been a showcase for russian arms, the setbacks of T-72 and APC being destroyed by RPG and AT missile have been compensated by aircraft prouesses..........................