Stop maligning the military

[SparklingCrescent]

No. I'm not questioning you as to why Pakistan Army did not take action, but Why did they have strong links with Taliban? Did you not get my point? The day my cousin told an Army personell that Taliban were at this location, that same night an Army of Taliban came and killed the whole family.

yours was not the only incident that was highlighted in the media and criticized.

Yes, I can share a million stories similar to mines, when Pak Army backfired its own innocent people.

 

[MyPakistan1947]

I had, not ever trusted or relied on the horrific stories my friends and close ones in Swat once informed me about; that Taliban in Swat were freed in numbers despite their cruel and murderous backgrounds.

In my personal opinion, every Taliban member who is caught should be beheaded A.S.A.P.

But even if the Pak Army does decide to behead every memeber of the Taliban they have caught, then what? Alot of people will start complaining the PA is being careless and killing innocent people indiscriminately, ethno-nationalists will blame other ethnicities, how about if the PA accidentally behead an innocent man because they feel he has a connection with Taliban? Of course realisticly thinking there have been/are going to be many cases where PA has punished innocent men because they mistook him for a Talib. PA are only HUMANS after all.

There is no way on this Earth Pakistani Army can please everybody.

There will always be people complaining, moaning, criticising, judging no matter how hard we try.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

No. I'm not questioning you as to why Pakistan Army did not take action, but Why did they have strong links with Taliban? Did you not get my point? The day my cousin told an Army personell that Taliban were at this location, that same night an Army of Taliban came and killed the whole family.

You are assuming the Army told the Taliban that your family were informers - there are several ways the Taliban could have found out. Someone in your own family aware of what had happened might have been sympathetic to the Taliban. The Taliban might have had locals on their payroll who reported that your family went to see the military. The FC, police and other local para-militaries were also routinely deployed with the Army. Anyone from amongst them could have been a Taliban sympathizer.

Without evidence it is not appropriate to simply blame the Army. If the Army was really that sympathetic to the Taliban, they would never have been as successful as they have been in Swat, and Swat would be nowhere close to as stable as it has been since the Mil Operation.

 

[SparklingCrescent]

Yara Agno Mulsim your useless explanations go no where. You say Taliban could've recognized my cousin talking to an Army personal, since when did they learn any spying role? comman man, you would go that far as to blame the FC and call them Taliban sympathizers? The FC (with spare ammo and cheap weapons that hardly worked) served along with the Police that had sticks as weapons were deployed way before the Army and let me assure you, the FC are considered the real heroes in Swat. Just like local Pakistanis were slaughtered right in front of Pak Army, so were FC and police.

Is that not enough information, Pakistan Army seeing with their own eyes my uncle and cousins along with 10 others getting killed? All this happening in a 2 hour duration with bombs exploding, guns firing, 200 Taliban cheering? They are only a few meters away from a checkpost, and over a hundred soldiers were packed in that post.

But whatever Agno Muslim. I dont need no more of your explanations. Thank you I know my facts.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Yara Agno Mulsim your useless explanations go no where. You say Taliban could've recognized my cousin talking to an Army personal, since when did they learn any spying role?

For a local sympathiser to recognize another local and pass on information about him visiting the Army does not require any training in a 'spying role'. It is simple identification and information about who the individual visited. Do you really think the Taliban did not have their own 'spies' keeping an eye on Pak Military activities? How much training does that take?

comman man, you would go that far as to blame the FC and call them Taliban sympathizers? The FC (with spare ammo and cheap weapons that hardly worked) served along with the Police that had sticks as weapons were deployed way before the Army and let me assure you, the FC are considered the real heroes in Swat. Just like local Pakistanis were slaughtered right in front of Pak Army, so were FC and police.

FC troops (though not as many of late) were often reported to be Taliban sympathisers, because of tribal and family connections with some Taliban groups. The Army has made it a much more discipline force in the last few years though, and weeded out the traitors.

Is that not enough information, Pakistan Army seeing with their own eyes my uncle and cousins along with 10 others getting killed? All this happening in a 2 hour duration with bombs exploding, guns firing, 200 Taliban cheering? They are only a few meters away from a checkpost, and over a hundred soldiers were packed in that post.

But whatever Agno Muslim. I dont need no more of your explanations. Thank you I know my facts.

Again, if the Army had orders not to engage unless attacked, because of the peace negotiations, they would not have attacked, no matter how much they wanted to.

I am sorry for your loss, but almost all of Pakistan was against military operations at that time, and almost all of Pakistan wanted to try dialog with the militants.

Heck, Imran Khan and the JI are still going around calling for 'dialog', despite what clearly happened in Swat.

 

[Mutee]

@Agno sir I don't think army has any soft corner for taliban as u suggested in your post but please talk about how the army is acting as a slave to the usa ?

 

[SparklingCrescent]

^^^

Ok, I guess Pakistan Army had to start some day and work its way to gain support. Unfortunately my family and many other lives had to be a part of it.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

@Agno sir I don't think army has any soft corner for taliban as u suggested in your post but please talk about how the army is acting as a slave to the usa ?

Do you want representative government or martial law?

If you want representative government, then please tell me whether the PPP led government has asked the Army or PAF to take any action against the US drones? Please tell me if the PPP and PML-N told the Army to kill Davis or find some way to keep him in jail?

If the PPP and PML-N did not do the above, then what do you expect the Army to do? We are trying to move away from the Army interfering in politics, but it seems that people just keep asking for more and more Army involvement.

Pakistanis need to hold their elected representatives responsible - kick out the PPP and PML-N, and if a new leadership chooses to end drone attacks, I am sure the Army will act on their orders. If it doesn't, I'll support you in abusing it.

---------- Post added at 08:41 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:41 PM ----------

@Agno sir I don't think army has any soft corner for taliban as u suggested in your post but please talk about how the army is acting as a slave to the usa ?

Do you want representative government or martial law?

If you want representative government, then please tell me whether the PPP led government has asked the Army or PAF to take any action against the US drones? Please tell me if the PPP and PML-N told the Army to kill Davis or find some way to keep him in jail?

If the PPP and PML-N did not do the above, then what do you expect the Army to do? We are trying to move away from the Army interfering in politics, but it seems that people just keep asking for more and more Army involvement.

Pakistanis need to hold their elected representatives responsible - kick out the PPP and PML-N, and if a new leadership chooses to end drone attacks, I am sure the Army will act on their orders. If it doesn't, I'll support you in abusing it.

 

[Mutee]

good answer Mr Agno !!!! I do agree nawaz and zardari are the most useless and corrupt persons in Pakistan

 

[Mutee]

But when it comes to the style of govt that should be imposed in Pakistan u and I will disagree there so I will stop at a point where we both are in agreement !!!! nawaz zardai should be kicked out of Pakistan asap

 

[Muhammad-Bin-Qasim]

No. I'm not questioning you as to why Pakistan Army did not take action, but Why did they have strong links with Taliban? Did you not get my point? The day my cousin told an Army personell that Taliban were at this location, that same night an Army of Taliban came and killed the whole family.



Yes, I can share a million stories similar to mines, when Pak Army backfired its own innocent people.

I agree with all the above... There are a lot of serious issues left unanswered in the crazy mess that people faced in Swat operation and elsewhere... I have tried to come to grips with all this and I have come to the conclusion that like the civilian government sector where we have traitors and Munafiqeen... we have the same in Pakistan Army at various levels... Allah swt has a way of exposing all such people... People will know who their enmies are inshaAllah...

 

[Vinod2070]

lol - And not a surprise that it is Farhat Taj, whose credibility and bias on this issue is severely compromised given her past opinions and positions.

I expect Kamran Shafi and Ayesha Siddiqa to not be far behind in parroting this line, which lacks any substantiation whatsoever.

I expected this.

No problem. Will Hoodbhoy or Irfan Husain fare any better? Ahmed Rashid?

Anyway, more details will emerge on this that will remove the last vestiges of doubt about who did it.

To me, it was a quid pro quo between CIA and ISI/PA. Plain and simple.

 

[khurasaan1]

Army cannot please everyone.People who think Army should have taken actions etc don't know the consequences of these actions.It's in our enemies interest that we go to war with Super Power which can destroy our country in matter of days.Probably take us back to 1947 and of course the so called Jamats who have so much ghairat are in their homes when Taliban kill twice as much in fact 9x people every weak.Why the double standards and hypocrisy?

So this means we will alwayz be at the merci of these f*ckng so called super powers who kill innocent humans all the time...
we should leave the faith in Allah SBWT that he can save us...
we need to get ready for the decisive fight with this f*kng world only evil power...US....
I guess we need to get ready for the martyrdom...cuz in anyway they gonna kill us if we believe in Allah SBWT (that is clearly written in Quran)... so we need to die at least with self respect and dignity...not like stupid Jackals...

 

[Muhammad-Bin-Qasim]

lol - And not a surprise that it is Farhat Taj, whose credibility and bias on this issue is severely compromised given her past opinions and positions.

I expect Kamran Shafi and Ayesha Siddiqa to not be far behind in parroting this line, which lacks any substantiation whatsoever.

Farhat Taj is downright stupid... I dont need proof to state that Kayani and Pasha are involved in all this BUT... just quoting Farhat Taj should be some sort of a crime...

 

[khurasaan1]

For a local sympathiser to recognize another local and pass on information about him visiting the Army does not require any training in a 'spying role'. It is simple identification and information about who the individual visited. Do you really think the Taliban did not have their own 'spies' keeping an eye on Pak Military activities? How much training does that take?

FC troops (though not as many of late) were often reported to be Taliban sympathisers, because of tribal and family connections with some Taliban groups. The Army has made it a much more discipline force in the last few years though, and weeded out the traitors.

Again, if the Army had orders not to engage unless attacked, because of the peace negotiations, they would not have attacked, no matter how much they wanted to.

I am sorry for your loss, but almost all of Pakistan was against military operations at that time, and almost all of Pakistan wanted to try dialog with the militants.

Heck, Imran Khan and the JI are still going around calling for 'dialog', despite what clearly happened in Swat.

I guess we dont need the blame game here....
Very soon the time will come within our country and around the world that nobody will be able to save his a*s neither the Govts and the Armyz top brass pplz. and that will really be the curse of Allah SBWT...insha-Allah
just my 2 cents..bro.