Stealth and Tejas

[Anony]

I think LCA is very near to the Miraj and its may help to feel in gap of the MIG-21. but question is arised that whether IAF need a small plane now. Even france now go on Rafale instead Miraj. may Airforces like double engine or a big plane. though LCA and Miraj have their own benifits.

One suggestion. Just add Israel and France and if need Rus to build the AMCA. that would be help in sale this plane and also to compleate very earlier.

On AMCA

Russia and India are already working on one 5th gen plane. As far France & Israel are concerned, some 5th gen technologies will be developed jointly. And most importantly, for next 4-5 years we can stop talking about AMCA. Let specs get finalized first, then it will make some sense on discussing. But yes in my consideration, option for partnering Snecma for 5th gen engine and Israel for a true 5th gen AESA radar should be ideal.

On LCA

Believe me, had LCA been developed by China, even in its present stage they would have inducted more than 100 fighters. It only requires a little more powerful engine and nothing else. Even at this stage, it is way superior than Mig27, Jaguar and Mirage. It's EW suite is better than the one fitted on F-16 C/D which Pakistan has. With a little higher thrust it will prove better than any interceptor IAF has in their entire history. I don't know what is wrong with IAF. They should have ordered 20 LCA mk1 of IOC-1 standard. PAF inducted 40 jf-17 even when they had not reached IOC standard. Next block due now will be of IOC standard. So they will be inducting close to 80 jf-17 of IOC standard.

 

[Srinivas]

True, the role of LCA is in the aircraft museums. As its already outdated.

Not as funny as you, Buckaroo.

Post reported, Unnecessary trolling and worth less comments.

 

[Jayanta]

Then why is India messing around with PAKFA. Just stick with LCA as the stealth aircraft as no one can see it. I'm certainly that India's adversary will never see LCA as its not ready. Once its ready, it would be ready to retire.

Are you nuts...how can you compare FGFA with LCA...they are two different platforms.

 

[uzair ramay]

tejas stealth...really funny

 

[ptltejas]

On AMCA

Russia and India are already working on one 5th gen plane. As far France & Israel are concerned, some 5th gen technologies will be developed jointly. And most importantly, for next 4-5 years we can stop talking about AMCA. Let specs get finalized first, then it will make some sense on discussing. But yes in my consideration, option for partnering Snecma for 5th gen engine and Israel for a true 5th gen AESA radar should be ideal.

I think we need to add those technologies immediately and why to wait china is already developing the fighters, so we also need to develope it once the disign is finalize, I dont think to take more time in developing prototypes. Prototypes are made and examine for the stealthy ness and aerodynamics.after that next stage the radar and other sensors included at later stage. even in fgfa it was done. first prototype neither have powerful engine it will use nor the other radar or avionics. I think we have made nice design as AMCA. no need to waste time like LCA. moreover our collobration is only for the FGFA Indian version of Pak-fa. which is different then AMCA. so first use the design testing and prototypes and then u may add fifth-six generation electronics, avionics suit.

On LCA

Believe me, had LCA been developed by China, even in its present stage they would have inducted more than 100 fighters. It only requires a little more powerful engine and nothing else. Even at this stage, it is way superior than Mig27, Jaguar and Mirage. It's EW suite is better than the one fitted on F-16 C/D which Pakistan has. With a little higher thrust it will prove better than any interceptor IAF has in their entire history. I don't know what is wrong with IAF. They should have ordered 20 LCA mk1 of IOC-1 standard. PAF inducted 40 jf-17 even when they had not reached IOC standard. Next block due now will be of IOC standard. So they will be inducting close to 80 jf-17 of IOC standard.

Recently one member whose relative was in airforce he discussed about it and it was told that LCA has no powerful engine. it has no speedy acceleration. It is need that fighter pick-up is more like 100km within 5 second. moreover one of my relative is also in airforce who told me that LCA is lacking electronics? I think we need to start developing after Rafale as we also have it with TOT. Just transfer tech to private companies and they will built powerful raddar and avionics. but then the garbage politicians could not earn import money in their swiss account.

 

[black_jack]

On AMCA

On LCA

Believe me, had LCA been developed by China, even in its present stage they would have inducted more than 100 fighters. It only requires a little more powerful engine and nothing else. Even at this stage, it is way superior than Mig27, Jaguar and Mirage. It's EW suite is better than the one fitted on F-16 C/D which Pakistan has. With a little higher thrust it will prove better than any interceptor IAF has in their entire history. I don't know what is wrong with IAF. They should have ordered 20 LCA mk1 of IOC-1 standard. PAF inducted 40 jf-17 even when they had not reached IOC standard. Next block due now will be of IOC standard. So they will be inducting close to 80 jf-17 of IOC standard.

IAF is correct , it cannot induct LCA in large numbers unless it is perfected.

Tejas is good fighter(by design) but it is lacking good power plant. Engines don't give enough acceleration (key parameter for dog-fight). Mirage is better than tejas. Tejas is yet to integrate Air-Air missiles.
worst of all HAL can't make more than 8 LCA per year(although build time for Tejas is quiet low ).

 

[Anony]

Recently one member whose relative was in airforce he discussed about it and it was told that LCA has no powerful engine. it has no speedy acceleration.

I know the best because I am the member and that air force personnel is my brother in law. And I think IAF should have inducted LCA mk1 at IOC-1 standard because talking to him I came to know that any new fighter when inducted, the first batch is used generally for training. So I think ,it is well ready to use it for training purpose.

IAF is correct , it cannot induct LCA in large numbers unless it is perfected.

Tejas is good fighter(by design) but it is lacking good power plant. Engines don't give enough acceleration (key parameter for dog-fight). Mirage is better than tejas. Tejas is yet to integrate Air-Air missiles.
worst of all HAL can't make more than 8 LCA per year(although build time for Tejas is quiet low ).

Why you think Mirage is superior than Tejas (I mean without the major upgrades that Mirage is going to receive in near future)

Tejas is not integrated with Air-Air missile because it is still some distance to get FOC. After IOC-2 Air-Air missile will be integrated. Look at the RCS of Mirage, radar of mirage, Thrust to weight, cockfit, pilot friendly displays, EW suite,etc. In each of the above mentioned parameters LCA is ahead of Mirage.

 

[black_jack]

Why you think Mirage is superior than Tejas (I mean without the major upgrades that Mirage is going to receive in near future)

Tejas is not integrated with Air-Air missile because it is still some distance to get FOC. After IOC-2 Air-Air missile will be integrated. Look at the RCS of Mirage, radar of mirage, Thrust to weight, cockfit, pilot friendly displays, EW suite,etc. In each of the above mentioned parameters LCA is ahead of Mirage.

Tejas was supposed to replace Mig 21 as interceptor.
In comparison with mirage it lakes acceleration , tejas needs heavy maintenance while mirage is just awesome for maintenance , Radar for tejas is in testing .

can you give me more info on EW suit of tejas ?

 

[Anony]

Tejas was supposed to replace Mig 21 as interceptor.

It is complete delusion dear. Just because Tejas is gonna replace Mig 21, doesn't mean it is just slightly better than Mig 21.

In comparison with mirage it lakes acceleration

Not quiet. Here look at the following spec:

Fifgters--- Loaded weight--- Maximum take off weight--- Dry Thrust --- Thrust Afterburner

LCA: ------ 9.5 ton -------------- --13.2 ton ------------------ --49KN ------------------- 84KN

Mirage: ------ 13.8 ton --------------- 17 ton ------------------- 64KN -------------------- 95KN

Now compare .

tejas needs heavy maintenance while mirage is just awesome for maintenance

Don't bother yourself with that crap posted in idrw.org. Even DRDO officially denied it saying LSP fly generally to test new developments or look after different parameters. After a successful flight, it need 2-3 days to evaluate results. That doesn't mean that Tejas requires a lot of maintenance.
Moreover, CFC used in Tejas requires least maintenance and don't erodes like the body of Mirage bringing maintenance cost of Tejas very low.

Radar for tejas is in testing .

can you give me more info on EW suit of tejas ?

Elta-2032 MMR is a finished product. Batch production has not started. It is fitted only in LSP-3 I guess. That doesn't mean it is in testing. Upgradation work never stops.

Radar fitted on Mirage has a range of 60km-70km. It's EW suite is of late 1980's era. Compared to it Tejas is fitted with modern EW suite designed by DARE "Mayavi".

 

[rashtriya.rifles]

Are you nuts...how can you compare FGFA with LCA...they are two different platforms.

leave that dumbass ... he is a frustrated kid..

 

[1ndy]

Sorry for off topic but why we are developing these FUTURE fighters? All LCA, AMCA, FGFA? if we can't defend our persent. Will there be anything left to defend in the future?

 

[black_jack]

It is complete delusion dear. Just because Tejas is gonna replace Mig 21, doesn't mean it is just slightly better than Mig 21.

i didn't meant that way . Tejas-mk1 is late by 15 years.
I agree with you ,But we can not induct 4th generation plane , we must be looking towards fifth generation platform Tejas mk-1 can be used for ground support.

Not quiet. Here look at the following spec:

Fifgters--- Loaded weight--- Maximum take off weight--- Dry Thrust --- Thrust Afterburner

LCA: ------ 9.5 ton -------------- --13.2 ton ------------------ --49KN ------------------- 84KN

Mirage: ------ 13.8 ton --------------- 17 ton ------------------- 64KN -------------------- 95KN

Now compare .

Dear it's not about max thrust or TWR , it's about time required to achieve particular thrust mark , where current engine sucks , I'm sure NAL will reshape mk2 with better intake and with GE414 mk2 should be working fine. But again mk2 won't come before 2014-15 and production will

Don't bother yourself with that crap posted in idrw.org. Even DRDO officially denied it saying LSP fly generally to test new developments or look after different parameters. After a successful flight, it need 2-3 days to evaluate results. That doesn't mean that Tejas requires a lot of maintenance.
Moreover, CFC used in Tejas requires least maintenance and don't erodes like the body of Mirage bringing maintenance cost of Tejas very low.

It's not true my sources speaks different story. just compare testing program of LCA with PAKFA , even after having 4 prototypes and 7 LSP's they hardly fly 10 sorties per week .Tejas has not achieved 1500 hours of flying since it was first flown.

Elta-2032 MMR is a finished product. Batch production has not started. It is fitted only in LSP-3 I guess. That doesn't mean it is in testing. Upgradation work never stops.

Radar fitted on Mirage has a range of 60km-70km. It's EW suite is of late 1980's era. Compared to it Tejas is fitted with modern EW suite designed by DARE "Mayavi".

why are u comparing it with 80's specification ?
Has Mayavi been tested against mki's , mirages ?

I am not against LCA Tejas but i feel that we should focus on mk2

 

[sancho]

True, the role of LCA is in the aircraft museums. As its already outdated.

The article is of course BS, but as @Sergi explained, the right term is RCS reductions, since that is all you can do at non stealth designs.
Actual stealth always includes not only airframe shapings, but mainly the internal weapon and fuel carriage, which is not going to happen with such a small, or light class fighters in general.
But to say LCA is outdated is as wrong as the article, because it includes all necessary design, material, tech and weapon features to be a modern 4th to 4.5th gen fighter and that even in the MK1 version. The fact that it has to use highly capable and proven Israeli radar and US engine now, actually makes it only stronger than initially planned. In many fields it would be top of it's class now "IF" it would be in serial production and operational service. That is the real problem so far and is mainly based on the issues between the industry and the forces. So in the longer it takes, the less potential will it have, but for today, it's more than capable.

 

[sancho]

i didn't meant that way . Tejas-mk1 is late by 15 years.
I agree with you ,But we can not induct 4th generation plane , we must be looking towards fifth generation platform Tejas mk-1 can be used for ground support.

That's not correct, if we induct it, MK1 will have good BVR capability, a good HMS and WVR combo for close combats, the capability for strikes and will most likely get anti ship missiles too. It's RCS is definitely very low (which is one of the few parts where the article makes some real points), it's avionics very modern too.
It is late, but not as far as you said and it's potential as a whole is still good, but we must focus on fast induction and not delaying things further with indigenous tech developments.

I'm sure NAL will reshape mk2 with better intake and with GE414 mk2 should be working fine. But again mk2 won't come before 2014-15 and production will

The air intake remains the same, at least externally, only the inlets will be larger to create a higher airflow for the new engine. But yes, the late arrival of MK2 (mainly because of INs changes) is a major downer for the project and completelly unnecessary!

 

[S-DUCT]

There is no way to turn LCA into 5th generation fighter without major structural change.The best DRDO can do is to reduce its RCS by making use of radar absorbent structures (RAS).DMSDRE has developed RAS for AMCA and AURA UCAV.

V shaped and aligned twin tailed vertical stablisers are must for LO platform.