State Duma chief suggests trying US for WWII nuke attacks

[MilSpec]

The high end estimate of those killed during the Tokyo bombing may equal the totals of both Hiroshima and Nagasaki put together.

Can you shed some light on American civilian reaction to back during the day and then the subsequent reaction in today's time.

 

[Aepsilons]

Tokyo was the real tragedy of the war.

There was no delineation of military and civilians. The Fire Bombing of Tokyo resulted in the loss of much of the civilian areas. However the casualties of Hiroshima and Nagasaki exceeded 300,000. The point is that most of Japanese cities were targeted , the Americans did not care if cities were filled with military industry or not, all major urban areas were targeted.

 

[Developereo]

The high end estimate of those killed during the Tokyo bombing may equal the totals of both Hiroshima and Nagasaki put together.

How do the numbers compare to Dresden?
Edit: never mind. looked it up (< 30K). not comparable...

 

[Aepsilons]

How do the numbers compare to Dresden?
Edit: never mind. looked it up (< 30K). not comparable...

The Great Tokyo Fire , a result of the March 9-10 , 1945 carpet bombing had resulted in over 100,000 deaths in a single strike. This does not count the thousands that were killed from American bombings from 1942 onward till the end of the war. All in all, we're looking at over half a million Japanese civilian deaths in around Tokyo.

The Americans even dared to target the Imperial Palace, in an attempt to hurt His Imperial Majesty the Showa Emperor. Luckily for us that His Imperial Majesty was protected by bomb shelters.

If The Emperor had been injured...

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

Can you shed some light on American civilian reaction to back during the day and then the subsequent reaction in today's time.

Horrible things happen during a world war.

Cologne, Germany

Hamburg, Germany

London

Stalingrad

Warsaw, Poland

Lots of other flattened cities.

 

[Aepsilons]

Horrible things happen during a world war.

Cologne, Germany
View attachment 179698

Hamburg, Germany
View attachment 179700

Lots of other flattened cities.

Besides human toll, the bombing raids had reduced much of Germany's precious cultural centers and works of art. The war was truly a travesty for all.

In Japan, many of our temples , cultural centers were devastated by fire. In my city, Saporro, much of our infrastructure were targetted, and much of the areas struck were densely packed civilian areas.

 

[Developereo]

All in all, we're looking at over half a million Japanese civilian deaths in around Tokyo.

Just goes to show you.

History -- as in what's a crime against humanity and what's a justifiable military campaign -- is written by the victor.

 

[Aepsilons]

Just goes to show you.

History -- as in what's a crime against humanity and what's a justifiable military campaign -- is written by the victor.

I could say more, but I will refrain. Many members in my family died during American bombing of Sapporo. My great grandfather hated Americans till his death. Even my own grandfather , tho he respected the Americans, he always had reservations agains them, as he served in the Imperial Navy. And I'm sure his feelings were justified.

 

[MilSpec]

Horrible things happen during a world war.
.

I understand that, But what do people in your circles think of dropping atomic weapons in theatre of war against Civilians? That is precisely my question. Also if you could fill in what people in 40's and 50's thought about the same and how (if any) change has crept into the actions of Truman.

 

[SarthakGanguly]

Horrible things happen during a world war.

Cologne, Germany
View attachment 179698

Hamburg, Germany
View attachment 179700

London
View attachment 179703

Stalingrad
View attachment 179704
Lots of other flattened cities.

London looks intact to me.

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

Just goes to show you.

History -- as in what's a crime against humanity and what's a justifiable military campaign -- is written by the victor.

I'm sure the Russian's as a victor aren't feeling they somehow ended up ahead.

 

[Developereo]

I'm sure the Russian's as a victor aren't feeling they somehow ended up ahead.

Not sure what you mean: is there some Russian narrative that is losing out over the German narrative?

Besides, the Russians are the victors only to the cognoscenti. I would wager that, to the vast majority around the world, the saviors were the Americans, with the Russians playing an "also fought" role.

 

[SarthakGanguly]

??

More than half a million killed in standard carpet bombing missions from Saipan and later from Iwo Jima.

Nagasaki was chosen because it was an industrial hub and a major city. Hiroshima was chosen because it was a refugee center and home to many wooden buildings. Japan was not all steel and concrete as it is today. From the American point of view the nuclear bomb was used on Japan to primarily force Japan to surrender to the US instead of the Soviet Union(what???*). And also to show the power of the bomb to the other superpower. Most of the Americans considered Japanese to be sub human rat like race anyway, so it was unlikely for them to feel any genuine remorse. Wartime propaganda always showed the Japanese as savage rats.

* The Kwantung Army was shredded by the Soviets in 1945 and the US was worried that the ever hungry Stalin might set his eyes on Japan proper. Japan was defeated by 1944 itself, after the routes to the South East Asia was cut - because they had no more fuel. Even their fleet was mostly docked in 45. (Refer U-Go) Japan would have surrendered, it was but a matter of time. But that time would have allowed the Soviets a presence - as the US knew from the European experience. So, they decided to buy the surrender with Japanese lives.

 

[gambit]

How do you personally feel about the Bombings? It must have been known to US that it would mark the largest civilian attack in the history of the mankind, if it was to make japan surrender, why wasn't the attack on coast line to minimize civilian casualties? What kind of reactions were observed in the US wrt to th bomb?

I believe that no US general or admiral took any glee from the nuclear bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. But by the time the bombs were ready and as the war progressed, I believe the US decision to use nuclear weapons was a difficult one to make and that Truman felt it was a necessity to swiftly bring the war to a real end.

If by 'feel' you mean in the emotional sense, then I say I am sad about it, but at the same time, I also believe Imperial Japan must be absolutely beyond any reasonable doubt convinced that any continuation of the war would be futile and more costly. War brings out the worst of human nature, even when those natures are supposedly tempered by our intellect. The nuclear bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki were the worst things the US done in WW II, but we cannot judge them as standalone events. As with anything in history, every event have a cause and if there is a cause, there is a context. And the context here is that Hiroshima and Nagasaki were cosmic justice for what Imperial Japan did to the rest of Asia.

That's unfair, US didn't do much better, I'm not sure the US definitely went in with better intentions, though maybe it did, hard to say.

But name something the US has done in the cold war that has had a positive impact, or recently.

Is Africa any less messed up? Is the Arab spring making any Arab countries better? Is South America the beacon of the prosperous and free? Other than Japan and Korea that were empires in their own right before European contact.

Even looking at China, Chang was a crook, what about your Vietnam? Democratic Vietnam's president, was just as bad as his communist buddies in the North. How can someone get 600,000 votes from 450,000 votes?!

Now, I'm obviously not saying the Soviets did any better, but that's how the game is played, and calling the Soviets the evil empire for playing the great power game, is like calling double dribble on the special Olympics basketball while playing the same game.

I saw the graves of East Germans who were shot while trying to escape to West Germany. How about you ?

The moral equivalency argument failed with the reality of those graves.

 

[Genesis]

I saw the graves of East Germans who were shot while trying to escape to West Germany. How about you ?

The moral equivalency argument failed with the reality of those graves.

I didn't see it, but I did see the Chinese Korean war graves, the Vietnamese war graves(Vietnamese ones), and I watched on the news the Iraqi, Afganistan and Pakistani graves.

If the dead could talk, would these guys like the US and better than the dead Germans with the Soviets?


Now obviously, America is better in terms of living condition, but the argument was evil empire and your reasons were as follows.

Exported Violence, check

exported ideology without moral restraint, if communism were to be actually implemented, or good social policies it's suppose to be pretty good. North Korea at one point was head and shoulders above the South and China in terms of living condition.

While America exported Democracy, the result have been more or less the same. The only difference is you see communism as evil and not democracy.

But just like the no huddle offence of Manning, it doesn't suck, but only Manning can do it. I in no way support communism because it cannot ever work on earth, but if it could it's great.


Poverty follows the Soviet, here's the big difference, US is rich, Soviet is not, but in terms of being followed by poverty to other countries, America is about as hot a girl as the Soviets, if poverty's a stalker.



Again, what the US or Soviet does is none of my business, but at least be somewhat objective. So you seen some graves, Go to the graves of the ones killed by the US and see if you feel the same way.