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Sri Lanka Guity of Tamil Genocide, India guilty of Complicity in Genocide

how can you now deny your own glorious history when it turn unpalatable ?

the Mahavamsa makes the following claims
1)Sinhala are chosen people
2) Sinhalas are Aryan
3) Sri Lanka is the glorious pure land for preserving Theravada Buddhism
4) Tamils are invaders and pose a threat to Sinhala Buddhism


The Mahavamsa - Great Chronicle - History of Sri Lanka - Mahawansa

The Mahavamsa "The Great Chronicle" otherwise known as "The Great Dynasty" is the single most important work of Lankan origin (written in Pali language). It describes the life and times of the people who forged our nation, from the coming of Vijaya in 543 BCE to the reign of King Mahasena (334 – 361) (6th Century BC to 4th Century AD). A companion volume, the Culavamsa or Choolavansha ("lesser chronicle"), covers the period from the 4th century to the British takeover of Sri Lanka in 1815.

where do i deny the mahavamsa? You dont accept or deny books you just read them :)
Mahavamsa is a historicl record written in 5 AD. So, it is naturally a source of history. And how do you think historians get infor from these books? Do you think they read them and treat them with religious devotion? They analyse them and take the historical facts from the mythical facts.

If Mahavamsa monk treat sinhala people as a chosen people that is his problem. It doesnt make sinhala a chosen people. The reality is sinhala is an amalgamation of natives and immigrants into SL. History books are not taken literally.

I think you are suffering from Mahavamsa mentality. Get out of it.
 
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Where was 100000 people killed in SL? do you find the 40,000 figuer not sex enough?

And why ignore the article by wikileaks that US ambassodar was sure that people did not die so much in SL war and that SL army did everything to safeguard people's lives!

Tha fact that more than 300,000 people reached SL army and took refuge just blows your propaganda away. There is an injured to death ratio. In SL's case this ratio would put the number of deaths (both civilian and LTTE cadre) less than 8000. That too because the LTTE pussies hid behind civilians.

The fact is number of people who died is much less than the propaganda figure. That too because terrorists hid behind civilians and shot at fleeing civilians

so why are the neo Nazis hesitant and afraid to allow international investigation or even independent journalist into the war zone ?
My source is from UN and much more reliable than your fictitious claim to white wash your war crimes ..

The allegation of human shield used by LTTE is a Neo Nazi lie, witness account is that people living in non LTTE areas were ordered and forced to move into the designated No Fire Zone by the military which also had LTTE combatants.
 
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so why are the neo Nazis hesitant and afraid to allow international investigation or even independent journalist into the war zone ?
My source is from UN and much more reliable than your fictitious claim to white wash your war crimes ..

The allegation of human shield used by LTTE is a Neo Nazi lie, witness account is that people living in non LTTE areas were ordered and forced to move into the designated No Fire Zone by the military which also had LTTE combatants.

So pls do post verified links from those UN sources you claim, Where it mentions 100,000 were killed ???.. Manwoman, So far all we have seen from you are excerpts from Tamilnet, Ch 4 and a multitude of third grade Tiger propaganda material.. Have some shame..:lol:

Or is it too much to ask for
 
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If Mahavamsa monk treat sinhala people as a chosen people that is his problem. It doesnt make sinhala a chosen people. The reality is sinhala is an amalgamation of natives and immigrants into SL. History books are not taken literally.

I think you are suffering from Mahavamsa mentality. Get out of it.

Dont cherry pick issues to suit your agenda, and you cant speak on behalf Mahanana and Neo Nazis, to them Mahavamsa is gospel truth. And the skin head clergy has a control over the masses and politics. Drawing the parallels in Mahavamsa the war between Ellalan and Dutu Gemunu, the Sinhala Neo Nazis found justification in butchering Tamils .


So pls do post verified links from those UN sources you claim, Where it mentions 100,000 were killed ???.. Manwoman, So far all we have seen from you are excerpts from Tamilnet, Ch 4 and a multitude of third grade Tiger propaganda material.. Have some shame..:lol:

Or is it too much to ask for

Neo Nazi, check all my post in this thread , I have included the relevant sources , learn to click on the links and they are not C4 or pro Tamil sources.. BTW why silent on international investigation ? IS India going to rescue you again from Uncle Sam's wrath ?

The Indian government seems to have been successful in watering down the proposed second US resolution against Sri Lanka at the UNHRC.

The revised US draft, which was tabled on Monday, is much softer and “there is a lot of evidence to clearly show the imprint of Indian influence,” said G Ananthapadmanabhan, Chief Executive of Amnesty International in India.

“There is a significant downgrading of the international community’s concerns regarding human rights violations in Sri Lanka,” he said. Compared to the original draft, the demand for an international investigation has been given up and now the onus to set up a mechanism for investigation in on Sri Lanka.
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Has India watered down UN resolution against SL yet again? - Rights Now

Criminals are allowed to conduct their own investigation , bravo India !!!!!
 
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so why are the neo Nazis hesitant and afraid to allow international investigation or even independent journalist into the war zone ?
My source is from UN and much more reliable than your fictitious claim to white wash your war crimes ..

The allegation of human shield used by LTTE is a Neo Nazi lie, witness account is that people living in non LTTE areas were ordered and forced to move into the designated No Fire Zone by the military which also had LTTE combatants.

The reason countries do not allow internl investigation is because that is a violation of its sovereignity. If UN to conduct invesigations here they would have to finish their business in American war crimes in Iraq, japan, Vietnam, Cambodia and afgan and come here. A country that routinely targets civilians via drone attacks cant talk about SL. Just because some body some where thinks investigations should be done in SL, SL is not bound to do that.

What UN reports do you point at? and using? Read the UN reports and you will find a this in paragraph 53 that "This account should not be taken as proven facts and any effort to determine specific liabilities would require a higher threshold."
This is a para in UN reports regarding SL war.
So it means UN itself is not sure of things in its reports. So how can you or anybody be sure of it?

And you say you rely on UN reports. It is the UN reports that says LTTE hid behind civilians. More evidence?
1. HRW, ICRC will give you infor on that.
2. Video records. SLAF has video evidence
3. evidence from civilians.

All these things prove LTTE hiding behind civilians and even shooting at them.

And no fire zone was declared by gov for the civilians to stay. Are you saying army declared NFZ where LTTE cadres stay? Do you think SLA was crazy to declare where LTTE is as NFZ, we wanted to kill the LTTE not to protect them.
Also LTTE positioning weapons in NFZ and attacking from NFZ is having evidance.

And LTTE didnt accept NFZ it was a unilateral thing by SLA. So NFZ has no legal value.

Dont cherry pick issues to suit your agenda, and you cant speak on behalf Mahanana and Neo Nazis, to them Mahavamsa is gospel truth. And the skin head clergy has a control over the masses and politics

I am not selecting things from mahavamsa. DO you want me to treat Mahavamsa as gospel truth? is it a problem to you that i dont :D?

If these monks or sinhala extremists think Mahavamsa as gospel truth,still it doesnt make mahavamsa gospel truth. It is simple as that and easy to grasp.
 
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Sri Lanka may or may not have done it.

But what I do know is this. Sri Lanka is currently leading the way in economic development in South Asia, and it's not close. What happened happened, American civil war was not one of no casualties either.

We can either bitch about it like a little girl and maybe impose sanctions that would affect the LIVING population, or be a man and get over it, while helping Sri Lanka go full speed ahead with its developments.
 
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WikiLeaks: It’s Not Genocide, Army Could Have Won The Battle With Higher Civilian And Less Army Casualties – ICRC To US Mission To UN
After a meeting with Jacque de Maio, ICRC Head of Operations for South Asia on July 9, 2009, just two months after the war, the ambassador wrote; “The army was determined not to let the LTTE escape from its shrinking territory, even though this meant the civilians being kept hostage by the LTTE were at increasing risk. So, de Maio said, while one could safely say that there were ‘serious, widespread violations of IHL,’ by the Sri Lankan forces, it did not amount to genocide.
He could site examples of where the army had stopped shelling when ICRC informed them it was killing civilians.
In fact, the army actually could have won the military battle faster with higher civilian casualties, yet chosen a slower approach which led to a greater number of Sri Lankan military deaths.
He concluded however, by asserting that the GSL failed to recognize its obligation to protect civilians despite the approach leading to higher military casualties. From his standpoint, a soldier at war should be more likely to die than a civilian.”
 
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The reason countries do not allow internl investigation is because that is a violation of its sovereignity. If UN to conduct invesigations here they would have to finish their business in American war crimes in Iraq, japan, Vietnam, Cambodia and afgan and come here. A country that routinely targets civilians via drone attacks cant talk about SL. Just because some body some where thinks investigations should be done in SL, SL is not bound to do that.

where was your concern of sovereignty when you allowed Pakistan, China, India, Iran, Israel as "external accomplices' on your war against Tamils ?

So cut the crap, Nazi India has her own agenda and need to protect her bloody neo Nazi 'cousin's rear as her own rear will be on fire ..
 
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Sri Lanka may or may not have done it.

But what I do know is this. Sri Lanka is currently leading the way in economic development in South Asia, and it's not close. What happened happened, American civil war was not one of no casualties either.

We can either bitch about it like a little girl and maybe impose sanctions that would affect the LIVING population, or be a man and get over it, while helping Sri Lanka go full speed ahead with its developments.

The reality is most of the figures given by propaganda organs are false and spread by media. So currently SL faces a media war while have to develop its war torn places

where was your concern of sovereignty when you allowed Pakistan, China, India, Iran, Israel as "external accomplices' on your war against Tamils ?

So cut the crap, Nazi India has her own agenda and need to protect her bloody neo Nazi 'cousin's rear as her own rear will be on fire ..

Are you high on drugs or pathetically running out of arguments. The coorperation and collaberation between countries and different armies is something that every country is do. Calling it an attack against soveregnity is laugbhable. These military agreements were not forced upon SL but ones SL looked for and built for its own advantages.

idiot!
 
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He could site examples of where the army had stopped shelling when ICRC informed them it was killing civilians.

BS, there were no ICRC as the government had ordered all aid workers and the UN to evacuate their last few international workers the war zone in Sept 2008.


One of the UN staff, communications Officer Benjamin Dix, recalls

“I remember feeling pretty disgusted by that party. I didn't see that there was anything there to celebrate. What we had actually done was complete abandonment of our duty of protection of civilians in a conflict situation,” he said.

The next day Dix resigned from his post. But even he had no idea just how catastrophic that abandonment was, how awful was the disaster that was about to befall the people left behind.
With the UN out of the region, with international media excluded and local journalists and critics silenced, exiled, disappeared or in fear of their life, the government felt ready to launch the final offensive.

BBC News - UN 'failed Sri Lanka civilians', says internal probe
 
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Making sense of the killing that unfolded in Sri Lanka in the last days of the Eelam War isn’t easy: we don’t know how many lives it claimed or, indeed, whether a genocide took place at all. Estimates for civilian fatalities, produced by the United Nations and human rights groups, range all the way from 20,000 to 1,47,000. There is no expert consensus on whether civilians were targeted on purpose, and, if so, when. There are indeed several well-documented cases of extrajudicial executions, but these are not the same as a genocide.

The numbers
It is important to understand why so many different numbers exist, what they mean, and what they imply.
The methodology behind these figures was first proposed by the University Teachers for Human Rights, a Jaffna-based human rights group. In essence, the UTHR proposed deducting the number of civilians who arrived at the government’s refugee camps from those known to be living in the so-called no-fire zone. This gave a number for people who could be presumed to have been killed.

However, no one knows how many people were actually living in the no-fire zone to start with. The government agent in Mullaithivu district, K. Parthipan, estimated the population to be around 330,000 in February 2009. Mr. Parthipan, though, had no way of conducting a census in the no-fire zone; he relied instead on reports from local headmen. He did not have any tools to distinguish civilians from LTTE conscripts and irregulars. He had no way of accounting for people who fled the zone to safety as the Sri Lankan forces closed in.
Mr. Parthipan’s numbers weren’t supported by the United Nations Panel of Expert’s analysis of satellite images, which suggested a population of 2,67,618. The U.N. experts then attempted a rule-of-thumb calculation of 1:2 or 1:3 civilian dead for every person known to be injured, which suggested 15,000 to 22,500 fatalities — much lower than the estimates that have now become commonplace. Finally, the panel plumped for an estimate of 40,000, based on Mr. Parthipan’s numbers.
Notably, the panel did not distinguish between civilians and the LTTE cadre — a fact noted by the U.S. State Department’s December 2009 report to Congress. The LTTE’s regular forces, estimated by experts at around 30,000, were backed by irregulars, the makkal padai, as well as press-ganged conscripts.



Deliberate killing?
It isn’t unequivocally clear, either, that disproportionate or indiscriminate force was used to eliminate these forces. Satellite imaging shows that right up to May 17, the Sri Lankan Army was facing fire from the LTTE’s 130 mm, 140 mm and 152 mm artillery. The Sri Lankan Army claims to have been losing over 40 soldiers a day during the last phases of the war. The former U.S. Ambassador to Sri Lanka, Robert Blake, sent a confidential cable to Washington, DC, on January 26, 2009, saying that the Sri Lankan Army “has a generally good track record of taking care to minimise civilian casualties during its advances.”
Jacques de Maio, head of operations of the International Committee of the Red Cross, concurred: on July 9, 2009 he told a U.S. diplomat that Sri Lanka “actually could have won the military battle faster with higher civilian casualties, yet chose a slower approach which led to a greater number of Sri Lankan military deaths.”

It is worth noting, too, that the U.N. panel acknowledged that the LTTE put some of those civilians in harm’s way. The report found “patterns of conduct whereby the LTTE deliberately located or used mortar pieces or other light artillery, military vehicles, mortar pits, and trenches in proximity to civilian areas.”
D.B.S. Jeyaraj has graphically described how the LTTE forced civilians into the Karaichikkudiyiruppu area to defeat an offensive by the Sri Lankan Army’s 55 division and 59 division. Photographs taken by a cameraman for The Times of London on May 24, 2009, for example, show what appear to be pits for siting mortar, an arms trailer and a bunker, in the midst of a civilian location in the no-fire zone.
None of this, of course, settles things one way or the other — and that’s the point. There is very little doubt that the Sri Lankan forces did commit crimes. They worked with savage paramilitaries who were out to settle scores with the LTTE. It doesn’t follow from this, though, that Sri Lanka’s campaign against the LTTE was genocide. And this brings us to the larger question.
 
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LTTE shooting at civilians and holding them by force


BS, there were no ICRC as the government had ordered all aid workers and the UN to evacuate their last few international workers the war zone in Sept 2008.


One of the UN staff, communications Officer Benjamin Dix, recalls

“I remember feeling pretty disgusted by that party. I didn't see that there was anything there to celebrate. What we had actually done was complete abandonment of our duty of protection of civilians in a conflict situation,” he said.

The next day Dix resigned from his post. But even he had no idea just how catastrophic that abandonment was, how awful was the disaster that was about to befall the people left behind.
With the UN out of the region, with international media excluded and local journalists and critics silenced, exiled, disappeared or in fear of their life, the government felt ready to launch the final offensive.

BBC News - UN 'failed Sri Lanka civilians', says internal probe

A person working in UN and that too in a war front has no idea where the shelling would come from. In reality their knowledge is nil.
The fact that LTTE shot at civilians were verified by the UN, HRW and ICRC by the witnesses given by the civilians. The agencies need not be present at the situation.

UN and NGOs were asked to leave by SL gov because SL cannot guarantee their safety. There was also the question of partiality. But some NGOs were presnt at ground like Red cross and many indian journalists were present.

I have posted a video that shows LTTE shooting at people and holding them by force. :) the video evidence! they are taken from aerial footage

@manlion,

1. why miss the LTTE holding human shield part from your trusted UN report?
2. Why ignore the US report that there was no genocide?
3. Are you unable to counter argue the points i raised in our history debate?
4. Why running away from each and every argument when i prove you re wrong?
:D all the signs of a pathetic loser!
 
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UN and NGOs were asked to leave by SL gov because SL cannot guarantee their safety. There was also the question of partiality. But some NGOs were presnt at ground like Red cross and many indian journalists were present.

How do you expect a response when you keep shifting your goal post ?

Earlier you wrote ICRC informed civilian casualties, if it was not safe for the aid workers imagine the situation for people trapped by barbaric military BUT the main reason for asking them to leave is you didn't want a WAR with Witness !!

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He could site examples of where the army had stopped shelling when ICRC informed them it was killing civilians.

@manlion,

1. why miss the LTTE holding human shield part from your trusted UN report?

Prosecute LTTE for war crimes ? I have no objection, but as you exterminated them all, no ?

2. Why ignore the US report that there was no genocide?

The evidence of genocide is so evident and glaring no there's no need for any report

3. Are you unable to counter argue the points i raised in our history debate?

History ? based on your 8th Century myth ?
How you explain the numerous Tamil loan words in Sinhala and not vice versa ?

Tamil loanwords in Sinhala | Online references | cyclopaedia.net

As even as late as the 6th century A.D., there was no Sinhala language, the Great Chronicles, Mahavamsa was written in the Pali language, so enlighten us what was the language and religion of the people before Sinhalisation ?

Why international pressure has become necessary for Sri Lanka - DAWN.COM
 
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How do you expect a response when you keep shifting your goal post ?
Earlier you wrote ICRC informed civilian casualties, if it was not safe for the aid workers imagine the situation for people trapped by barbaric military BUT the main reason for asking them to leave is you didn't want a WAR with Witness !!
Really am I the one shifting goal posts? Aren’t you the one who brought propaganda video and war crime talks into a discussion about history? In all the previous discussions when you fail to give a proper argument, you flee from the thread. Shifting goal posts is the only way you survive here.
Yes ICRC informed civilian territories and it also says army stopped shelling as soon as they asked them to stop. And it also says army tried to minimize civilian deaths even sacrificing their soldiers.

And I said Red Cross and Indian journos were present in the ground.

Of course civilians were trapped, and it was not safe for civilians. Did I say anywhere it was safe for civilians? It was a battle front in which one party hid behind civilians holding a human shield.
And how did civilians got trapped there? How civilians did come in between SLA and LTTE? Because LTTE while retracting from their previously held area took civilians with them. LTTE took the civilians in neighborhood with them. That is how the civilians became trapped.
And if it was the military who kept them trapped, why did they flee towards the army from LTTE side? The reality is 300,000 people came towards SLA defence lines. And there is video evidence of people being shot at by LTTE. Why do you ignore them? The sequence of events suggests the opposite of what you say.

@manlion,
Prosecute LTTE for war crimes ? I have no objection, but as you exterminated them all, no ?
Really? Prosecute LTTE? Of course the remaining LTTEers like Adele Balasingham and many LTTE operatives needed to be prosecuted. We will prosecute them, that is our task.
And what is the point of asking to prosecute LTTE after you have supported their terrorism for 3 decades and that too after SL has destroyed it?

The evidence of genocide is so evident and glaring no there's no need for any report

If the evidences are so evident why do you always fail to point at it? And don’t paste media reports of fake and useless tribunals that has no validity but keep old leftist UN people occupied. Present real evidence.

History ? based on your 8th Century myth ?
How you explain the numerous Tamil loan words in Sinhala and not vice versa ?
Tamil loanwords in Sinhala | Online references | cyclopaedia.net

What myth? Actually I didn’t talk about history what I gave to you is a rational analysis based on migration theory and gene studies.
And yes there are a lot of tamil loan words in Sinhala. Actually that further PROVES my point that Sinhala people have tamil roots as well. That is the reason for tamil loan words. Had Sinhalese were a group of immigrants from india, that wont happen. And it shows how open they were to others culture. Not only tamil loan words we have dutch, Portugese and English loan words. :D
As even as late as the 6th century A.D., there was no Sinhala language, the Great Chronicles, Mahavamsa was written in the Pali language, so enlighten us what was the language and religion of the people before Sinhalisation ?
I think this clearly displays your ignorance. Pali is a language that doesn’t have a script. Pali that used to write mahavamsa used Sinhala script. :D And the origin and development of Sinhala scripts will be shown by many many stone inscriptions written all over SL.
At least after 8th century Sinhala literature started appearing, but why no Sri Lankan tamil literature? Where are the products of the so called tamil kingdom of SL that according to eelamists are thousands of years old. Why no tamil culture or even a book of Lankan origin upto 18th century? :D
SO? What is your point here? Struggling hard to make an argument?
 
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