Sputnik: India Needs Chinese Help to Prop-Up Demonetization Drive

[Götterdämmerung]

I buy a 4 yuan pancake on the street by scanning the food's QR code using my Alipay APP.
One second, done! I don't care about Wall Street or not.
I just know i don't need to take too much cash, I seldom have more than 100yuan in my pocket.

Don't cry when it's too late, I told you so. Ask Shotgunner why a cashless society is a slave society.

 

[Sam.]

Don't cry when it's too late, I told you so. Ask Shotgunner why a cashless society is a slave society.

Lol cashless society is same as cash society . Both have no real value in itself.

 

[Götterdämmerung]

Lol cashless society is same as cash society . Both have no real value in itself.

The last Pisa test India took part was spot on.

 

[somebozo]

The real black money is stashed in foreign bank accounts and MOdi has no access there..

 

[Shotgunner51]

Don't cry when it's too late, I told you so. Ask Shotgunner why a cashless society is a slave society.

First of all, it's not hard for anyone to imagine the accompanying security issue, that's why I mentioned on PDF that in the 21st century cyberspace is the most critical domain, because one major, if not most important of all, basic human rights - financial/property rights - hang on the GRID.

Then, it isn't hard either to imagine privacy issue. Having one's complete financial foot-prints in the cyberspace, that just brings the issue to a whole new level.

Cash notes are of course far from perfect, but they are still material IOU printed by the issuer - central bank - and no one can take that away before a court says so. E-moneys are different, banks can limit, set conditions (fee) or even rightfully refuse cash withdrawal, they can do these as long as they still in-theory allow "liquidity" by electronic transfers, i.e. to another electronic account they acknowledge, or another bank. Imagine in a civil forfeiture, no defence left.

Talking about banks (and their central bank), it'd definitely be much easier for them to implement negative nominal interests rate (NIRP). How about "real" interests rate, negative or what? Well that's just another "story" for bankers to tell, after all it's them (or their government) who publishes inflation/deflation data.

Some interesting reads:
http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2016/04/cashless-society/477411/
http://www.forbes.com/sites/frances...eliminated-the-zero-lower-bound/#c5d54e854a05

 

[Götterdämmerung]

First of all, it's not hard for anyone to imagine the accompanying security issue, that's why I mentioned on PDF that in the 21st century cyberspace is the most critical domain, because one major, if not most important of all, basic human rights - financial/property rights - hang on it.

Then, it isn't hard either to imagine privacy issue. Having one's complete financial foot-prints in the cyberspace, that just brings the issue to a whole new level.

Cash notes are of course not perfect, but they are material IOU printed by the issuer - central bank - and no one can take that away. E-moneys are different, banks can limit, set conditions (fee) or even rightfully refuse cash withdrawal, they can do these as long as they still in-theory allow "liquidity" by electronic transfers, i.e. to another electronic account, another bank. Imagine in a civil forfeiture, no defence left.

Talking about central banks, it would definitely be much easier to implement negative nominal interests rate (NIRP). How about "real" interests rate, negative or what? Well that's just another "story" for bankers to tell, after all it's them (or their government) who publishes inflation/deflation data.

Some interesting reads:
http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2016/04/cashless-society/477411/
http://www.forbes.com/sites/frances...eliminated-the-zero-lower-bound/#c5d54e854a05

On top of the mentioned problems, there are IMO more grave issue, e.g.

1. Lets say you bought a book about a certain topic (e.g. certain religion, political system etc.) that was legal and harmless at the time you bought. The political system changes and your particular book becomes taboo and anyone who possess it will become at least a suspect although you have done nothing wrong. All the gov. needs to do is a simple scan of the purchase of this book.

2. You are a dissident of a certain regime, the gov. simply switches off your card. The gov. of course has all the data of your friends and family members. Their habitual grocery list, too, will be monitored. Any changes, such as buying some more food for you to survive, will be registered and of course be punished. How about switching off their card for a week as a warning for helping you out?

 

[Shotgunner51]

On top of the mentioned problems, there are IMO more grave issue, e.g.

1. Lets say you bought a book about a certain topic (e.g. certain religion, political system etc.) that was legal and harmless at the time you bought. The political system changes and your particular book becomes taboo and anyone who possess it will become at least a suspect although you have done nothing wrong. All the gov. needs to do is a simple scan of the purchase of this book.

2. You are a dissident of a certain regime, the gov. simply switches off your card. The gov. of course has all the data of your friends and family members. Their habitual grocery list, too, will be monitored. Any changes, such as buying some more food for you to survive, will be registered and of course be punished. How about switching off their card for a week as a warning for helping you out?

That's why I said privacy matters, cos it can be used against you.

Let's not worry government makes a book wrong hence any men buying are wrong, let's worry government makes a man wrong by making the books he bought are wrong.

That dissident you said should be very worried (cutting off his payment capability is civil forfeiture), cos not just his grocery list, but his non-prescription drug lists, his horse race bets, hobbies (good and bad ones), even movies watched, are tracked down to every possible details. Same for his family, friends, lovers.

Every man - tycoons, top military brasses, presidents, politicians, lawyers, bankers, capitalists, even a chef - has soft spot he may try to hide, and when one man is deprived of privacy, he is defenceless.

 

[Götterdämmerung]

That's why I said privacy matters, cos it can be used against you.

Let's not worry government makes a book wrong hence any men buying are wrong, let's worry government makes a man wrong by making the books he bought are wrong.

That dissident you said should be very worried (cutting off his payment capability is civil forfeiture), cos not just his grocery list, but his non-prescription drug lists, his horse race bets, hobbies (good and bad ones), even movies watched, are tracked down to every possible details. Same for his family, friends, lovers.

Every man - tycoons, top military brasses, presidents, politicians, lawyers, bankers, capitalists, even a chef - has soft spot he may try to hide, and when one man is deprived of privacy, he is defenceless.

Exactly, that's why I said only a slave society does not need cash.

It boggles my mid that so many people don't see these obvious issues.

 

[Sam.]

The last Pisa test India took part was spot on.

Your every statement is your belief.

 

[Pangu]

Well, if you watch hollywood movies with the protagonist on the run from the govt. They always avoid using their credit cards for fear of being tracked...

Also, these days pple with portable scanners can easily capture ur CC data & steal ur $ digitally, if ur unlucky, not to mention hackers wrecking havock on online customers.

In one way I'm glad I can go cashless, but I never really feel secure...

 

[Götterdämmerung]

In one way I'm glad I can go cashless, but I never really feel secure...

That's the problem, really. For a bit of convenience, many are willing to sell their freedom.

Others, like the stupid Indian, Sam, is not even aware of the dangers, even if you serve it on a silver platter.

 

[phancong]

All government in power want the ability to monitor it citizens activities, they have many way to track your movement and your daily activities. Drive a new model car with GPS system install and Internet connection on your car, your mobiles phone device also give away your location. The advance of technology information transform human society into a digital embedded in a wide ranging of computer network. Government no longer need your identification trace just need to know your digital number stored in the government bulk data storage to know every little detail of your daily live.

That's the problem, really. For a bit of convenience, many are willing to sell their freedom.

Others, like the stupid Indian, Sam, is not even aware of the dangers, even if you serve it on a silver platter.

Reason why US inmate issue a digital number in prison because an inmate belong to the government possession, prisoner no longer be view by government as a human being but a property of a state. Inmate no longer recognize by their common name but inmate identify only by the number issue by the state.

 

[Götterdämmerung]

Reason why US inmate issue a digital number in prison because an inmate belong to the government possession, prisoner no longer be view by government as a human being but a property of a state.

The Nazis did the same in the concentration camps. The US is de facto already a fascist state. Wait till SHTF, then millions of people will end up in FEMA camps.

 

[phancong]

The Nazis did the same in the concentration camps. The US is de facto already a fascist state. Wait till SHTF, then millions of people will end up in FEMA camps.

In a way, I'm no different than the inmate in the state penitentiary, all my movement can be track with a click of the mouse except I not being cage in like the hapless animal in a steel cell.

 

[Götterdämmerung]

In a way, I'm no different than the inmate in the state penitentiary, all my movement can be track with a click of the mouse except I not being cage in like the hapless animal in a steel cell.

As long as you can still use cash, at least your consumption is rather anonymous. The books you buy, the foods you eat, if bought with cash gives you a certain amount of protection. Yes, in a way, we are already living in a slave society light.

People like Gates or Trump, even with their billions, are mere managers of the real slave master.