Spot-fixing/Match-fixing scandal

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

But sufficient evidence is enough for ICC to suspend the suspected players. Legally speaking, there's no way PCB can nail Lorgat even if the player's been proved innocent. Ajay Jadeja was facing 4 years ban by BCCI, court acquitted him of all charges but he couldn't do anything to Dalmia with all his political clout.

What evidence is 'sufficient'? Isn't the purpose of the yet to be complete SY investigation precisely to weight the evidence and come to a determination of whether the concerned individuals are guilty or not?

If so, then how has the ICC managed to obtain 'sufficient evidence' before the SY investigation is even complete, and without even interviewing/questioning the main parties involved?

 

[LaBong]

In the meantime the ICC has gone ahead and suspended the players, despite the final investigation results by SY not yet being provided, or the investigation even complete.

But you don't need to prove anyone guilty to suspend him. It's quite normal to suspend someone when there's many evidence against him and an investigation being carried out to authenticate the evidences.

 

[foxbat]

its a provisional suspension, pending inquiry

Spot-fixing scandal: ICC to appoint independent commissioner - Top Stories - Cricket - Sports - The Times of India

 

[LaBong]

What evidence is 'sufficient'? Isn't the purpose of the yet to be complete SY investigation precisely to weight the evidence and come to a determination of whether the concerned individuals are guilty or not?

If so, then how has the ICC managed to obtain 'sufficient evidence' before the SY investigation is even complete, and without even interviewing/questioning the main parties involved?

I think SY job is to confirm the authenticity of the evidences. ICC didn't ban the players rather suspended them as an enquiry being carried out against them. They can walk free if proven innocent. PCB also 'unofficially' suspended them when the players were withdrawn from the squad, ICC only made it official.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

But you don't need to prove the anyone guilty to suspend him. It's quite normal to suspend someone when there's many evidence against him and an investigation being carried out to authenticate the evidences.

So then it is not a suspension based on 'sufficient evidence', since the ICC has not done anything to establish the veracity of the evidence or even interview the concerned players, but a suspension based on 'allegations'.

I think such a suspension is indeed troublesome, since it seeks to punish before guilt is proven, and especially if the reports of Amir an Asim being removed from the ICC awards is true, which means punishment is being given out without even an investigation.

 

[foxbat]

So then it is not a suspension based on 'sufficient evidence', since the ICC has not done anything to establish the veracity of the evidence or even interview the concerned players, but a suspension based on 'allegations'.

I think such a suspension is indeed troublesome, since it seeks to punish before guilt is proven, and especially if the reports of Amir an Asim being removed from the ICC awards is true, which means punishment is being given out without even an investigation.

I see it more like some one being put in a lockup pending a court case about his crime. Its the question of what is more harmful.. A player who is possibly tainted playing matches till the result of an inquiry comes out. Or an innocent player sitting out some matches till his innocence is proven by the same inquiry.

I think the answer is obvious..

Apart from feigning indignance, I think every Pakistani also knows that these folks should not be playing the matches till this is sorted out.

 

[LaBong]

So then it is not a suspension based on 'sufficient evidence', since the ICC has not done anything to establish the veracity of the evidence or even interview the concerned players, but a suspension based on 'allegations'.

I think such a suspension is indeed troublesome, since it seeks to punish before guilt is proven, and especially if the reports of Amir an Asim being removed from the ICC awards is true, which means punishment is being given out without even an investigation.

Once again ICC don't need to verify the evidences to suspend a player. It all depends on whether or not you take suspension as punishment. For example Murli was suspended because of allegation of chucking, an enquiry was carried out, he was proved to be innocent and suspension was lifted. A parent authority can suspend anyone he suspects of committing crime , he don't have to prove it, it's the player responsibility to prove his innocence.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

I see it more like some one being put in a lockup pending a court case about his crime. Its the question of what is more harmful.. A player who is possibly tainted playing matches till the result of an inquiry comes out. Or an innocent player sitting out some matches till his innocence is proven by the same inquiry.

I think the answer is obvious..

Apart from feigning indignance, I think every Pakistani also knows that these folks should not be playing the matches till this is sorted out.

Even suspects in crimes are typically granted bail, depending upon the circumstances of the crime, pending their court appearances, and during that time they are free to live their lives, with the exception of any restrictions a judge/court might apply.

And if the reports of removing Asif and Amir from the ICC awards list are true, then the ICC has gone beyond 'preliminary suspensions' and actually punished them.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

A parent authority can suspend anyone he suspects of committing crime , he don't have to prove it, it's the player responsibility to prove his innocence.

The player has to be willing to subject himself to ICC accepted tests (investigation), and the player cannot prove he is not chucking - the tests have to prove he is chucking.

You cannot prove a negative.

In this case the situation is different since there is a criminal investigation being handled by SY, and the evidence and issues are not as cut and dry as 'proving someone chucks'.

 

[LaBong]

Rajdeep Sardesai
breaking on cnn ibn: pak set to pull out of england tour. emergency meeting called in london at 12 noon gmt.

wow! it's reaching a new height!

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Apart from feigning indignance, I think every Pakistani also knows that these folks should not be playing the matches till this is sorted out.

And don't generalize please - guessing emotions through typed posts is a ludicrous exercise, not to mention that it is pretty obvious from this forum and various other Pakistani media, that Pakistani opinion is pretty divided on this issue.

If you need to make cheap digs and troll, you can do that after you get banned as you pretend to type nonsense that doesn't show up on the forum threads.

 

[foxbat]

Even suspects in crimes are typically granted bail, depending upon the circumstances of the crime, pending their court appearances, and during that time they are free to live their lives, with the exception of any restrictions a judge/court might apply.

And if the reports of removing Asif and Amir from the ICC awards list are true, then the ICC has gone beyond 'preliminary suspensions' and actually punished them.

Sure.. And that (bail) may happen as the inquiry proceeds and the presiding authority gets clarity on which way that is moving and also depending on the case made by these gentlemen about their alleged activities.

Also I am against any action by ICC beyond not allowing them to play any matches till the inquiry is done and over.

 

[foxbat]

And don't generalize please - guessing emotions through typed posts is a ludicrous exercise, not to mention that it is pretty obvious from this forum and various other Pakistani media, that Pakistani opinion is pretty divided on this issue.

If you need to make cheap digs and troll, you can do that after you get banned as you pretend to type nonsense that doesn't show up on the forum threads.

My apologies if it came across as trolling. First of all, I was not refering to people on this forum but the overall reaction from Pakistan on this, including the theory around the role of Pawar's Indian citizenship

Secondly, I dont think there is any significant division on whether these guys should play till this is sorted out or not. Specially since these players (and PCB) anyway removed them from the playing 11 for the T20 and One days

 

[LaBong]

The player has to be willing to subject himself to ICC accepted tests (investigation), and you the player cannot prove he is not chucking - the tests have to prove he is chucking.

You cannot prove a negative.

In this case the situation is different since there is a criminal investigation being handled by SY, and the evidence and issues are not as cut and dry as 'proving someone chucks'.

ICC as a parenting body has the legal authority to investigate anyone under it's umbrella, players willingness doesn't matter. Players are free to chose any independent enquiry if they wish.

and the evidence and issues are not as cut and dry as 'proving someone chucks'

Same as 'sufficient evidence', depends on 'not as cut and dry' to whom? May be to ICC it seemed as or more cut and dry to cricket's health than Murli throwing his dusra.

 

[Awesome]

How do you know scotland yard have not done it before taking the evidence as credible?

If they had done this and found something incriminating, then the players would've been arrested by now as that is hard science backing up a claim.

If the authenticity of the video is proven, then whats left to arrest them?

Obviously its not been proven.

Step 1

For example if the video was recorded onto a hard disk as Mazhar_majeed.avi. First thing I would check was the Date-modified stamp. If it says its before the no-balls, then I will go to step 2.

If its after the no balls, then I know right away the proof is not there.

Step 2

I will check which sectors/clusters does the date containing mazhar_majeed.avi occupy. I will then take a reading of the magnetism of that area as data is written by magnets onto discs.

Step 3

I will re record on a similar storage media, from the same writing devices. Then take its reading.

I will then no the attenuation in the strength of magnetism over time. I will also make calculations of the rate of decay in strength per day, through daily observations. Then I can easily calculate on day 3 this would be the magnetic strength, on day 4 this and so on.

So what is the issue that such results have not been published and the players still not indicted?