Spain Proposes Avro Replacement Deal - C-295, To Be Changed To Govt-to-Govt...

[Abingdonboy]

This deal is unfair to Tata.

Let there be transparency in such deals. Let them participate in tenders and let the tenders by closed fast.

I'm pretty sure this deal would still have TATA as the main beneficiary so I don't see how it is unfair.

As it stands a single bidder situation is almost impossible to progress for the MoD, strictly speaking they should re-tender it (as per past precedents and the DPP-2013). A govt-govt deal is a logical solution to this quagmire.....

 

[sancho]

because our negotiation power will be minimum.

The opposite is the case, in a government to government deal, we could negotiate the terms with the other government, that then can influence the vendor. In the current single vendor situation, we are in the weaker position, to basically accept anything the vendor offers.

 

[Agent_47]

The opposite is the case, in a government to government deal, we could negotiate the terms with the other government

i don't understand which is the other government ?

 

[sancho]

sir how do you compare this option vis a vis MTA project considering that C 295 can be delivered quite quickly.

There is no comparison of the 2, since they are meant for different class of transport capability as well as different roles. The C295 or the AN32 today is meant for basic logistical roles, transporting cargo and passengers up to 9t, while the C130J / MTA are larger tactical aircafts, not only meant to transport cargo up to 20t, but also larger sized loads like vehicles, towed howitzers / guns. MTA is even specifically aimed to the larger loads, because it will have the same cargo hold as the IL76 has, just with smaller length.
Check this broad comparison of the cargo hold:

i don't understand which is the other government ?

The Spanish government of course, just as the US government influenced Boeing to reduce the price. When you negotiate with a foreign government, you can include politics in it and the benefits in other areas. When you negotiate with the vendor only, you simply has less leverage.

 

[MokshaVimukthi]

There is no comparison of the 2, since they are meant for different class of transport capability as well as different roles. The C295 or the AN32 today is meant for basic logistical roles, transporting cargo and passengers up to 9t, while the C130J / MTA are larger tactical aircafts, not only meant to transport cargo up to 20t, but also larger sized loads like vehicles, towed howitzers / guns. MTA is even specifically aimed to the larger loads, because it will have the same cargo hold as the IL76 has, just with smaller length.
Check this broad comparison of the cargo hold:

View attachment 199115

The Spanish government of course, just as the US government influenced Boeing to reduce the price. When you negotiate with a foreign government, you can include politics in it and the benefits in other areas. When you negotiate with the vendor only, you simply has less leverage.

Cross section dimensions was nice, but you must be delusional to think govts. influence corporates ........ in real life Corporates influence Governments.

Govt. to Govt. deal is bad because we do not get technology transfer and we loose leverage over the corporation. US got. speaking for Boeing has far more Leverage than boeing speaking for itself.

Besides in govt. to govt. deal the price does not go down. Its sold for the same price their govt. brought it for.

 

[scholseys]

Indians need good tailors. The suit compared to the Spanish is abysmal at best.

 

[kaykay]

@sancho can you tell us about Its high altitude capabilities. No doubt it will be cheaper to maintain/operate and afaik it can even take off/land from unprepared runways and also have short takeoff and landing capabilities. But can it takeoff and land from say Ladakh and Kargil airfields effectively? Means with significant load?

 

[sancho]

@sancho can you tell us about Its high altitude capabilities. No doubt it will be cheaper to maintain/operate and afaik it can even take off/land from unprepared runways and also have short takeoff and landing capabilities. But can it takeoff and land from say Ladakh and Kargil airfields effectively? Means with significant load?

The latest version (C295 W), has improvements to increase the performance exactly in these fields:

The 30kg metallic winglets with composite attachments to the wings are designed for optimizing the low-speed performance of the aircraft, notably for operating it from hot and high airfields (such as found in the Andes and Himalayas)...
...He says a study was launched by Airbus Military with Pratt & Whitney in 2011 to improve the climb and ceiling performances of the C295. The new engine settings have been approved by Pratt & Whitney "and are already certified and incorporated into the Aircraft Flight Manual," he says, adding that these setting improve operations over very high terrain "with only a minor influence on the maintenance costs." In addition, the new settings (without taking the effect of the winglets into account) increase the payload capacity at 25,000 feet by 1.5 tons.

Airbus Military unveils C295W | Ares

 

[kaykay]

The latest version (C295 W), has improvements to increase the performance exactly in these fields:



Airbus Military unveils C295W | Ares

Great. Noe I am certain IAF will surely go for this version/similar one with keeping our high altitude requirements in mind.

 

[sancho]

Great. Noe I am certain IAF will surely go for this version/similar one with keeping our high altitude requirements in mind.

Well IAF has no other choice as it seems, but still will be dependent on MoDs decision how to move out or on from this single vendor situation.