What's new

Space Warfare, Technology and Exploration

Building an atmosphere is a long term goal. For now, with the tech and the developing tech we have, it is enough to land us on Mars and start a small colony.

SpaceX is working on making space cheaper and more accessible, which is the most important part out of all. Once that's done to a sufficient degree, say $100 per kilo, we'll have to develop better and extraordinary engines which'll decrease the time to travel between us and Mars, along with the rest of the solar system where space mining will be taking place.

Once space mining takes off, we won't have to mine on the Earth and those derelict spaces can become forests & museums, among other beneficial usage of such space.

Think of this whole process as the start of the new exploration age, one bigger and much more impactful than the one started by the Europeans when they colonized the whole world. The handful of companies, nations and groups which are the first to explore and colonize will be the new trillionaires.

Any mass extinction event taking place on Earth, say nuclear warfare, will not affect them since they'll be able to recolonize Earth.

More on this:


@Pan-Islamic-Pakistan @Taimoor Khan @Hakikat ve Hikmet @Pakhtoon yum @313ghazi @TMA @Muslimrenaissance @lastofthepatriots @DESERT FIGHTER @Yaseen1 @Talwar e Pakistan @Taimur Khurram @Ahmet Pasha @DESERT FIGHTER @Desert Fox @Reichsmarschall @khansaheeb @AZADPAKISTAN2009 @Philosopher @Zarvan @truthfollower @El Sidd @MastanKhan @Dubious @Reichsmarschall @waz @Arsalan @Horus @SQ8

Let us know your thoughts and start contributing.
View attachment 688128

View attachment 688129

View attachment 688130

View attachment 688131

View attachment 688132

You may not like my thoughts.

Prophet (PBUH), on his journey to heavens saw Asrafeel looking up in heaven with his lips on trumpet.

By all means we can try all we can to advance the technological and scientific advancement, it's just I dont think we got enough time left as a humanity
 
.
You may not like my thoughts.

Prophet (PBUH), on his journey to heavens saw Asrafeel looking up in heaven with his lips on trumpet.

By all means we can try all we can to advance the technological and scientific advancement, it's just I dont think we got enough time left as a humanity

I like opposing thoughts, I welcome them. Otherwise PDF will just become an echo chamber.

I have read similar stuff too but Islam never stopped the advancement of the human being or of science. Giving up is also not a trait of the humans but the shayateen. We can discuss things with a religious angle also but it won't lead us anywhere. Please open a pm with me if you want to talk more on the topic.
 
.
I like opposing thoughts, I welcome them. Otherwise PDF will just become an echo chamber.

I have read similar stuff too but Islam never stopped the advancement of the human being or of science. Giving up is also not a trait of the humans but the shayateen. We can discuss things with a religious angle also but it won't lead us anywhere. Please open a pm with me if you want to talk more on the topic.

Ofcourse, by all means, keep on striving towards science and technology. Infact learning science is infact a quest to learn more about our creator Allah, his laws, his system that he put in place all around us, basically knowing Allah better.

I am just going by realistic point of view that humanity, at maximum is not more then 20k years old, that's according to most Islamic scholars. Think of all the prophet, 124k in that timeframe with the last one already came and gone saying that he was the first sign of the judgement day, I really doubt that humanity will have enough time to go on startrek style and explore the vastness of universe.

Also:

assembly of jinn and humans! If you can penetrate beyond the realms of the heavens and the earth, then do so. ˹But˺ you cannot do that without ˹Our˺ authority.
 
.
No
I quote from it :
There is an alternative radioisotope for use in nuclear batteries: Dimond converters could be made using radioactive carbon-14, which has an extremely long half-life of 5,700 years. Work on such generators was earlier reported by physicists from the University of Bristol.
Your article is from 2018 and the above section mentions Carbon-14 which is what the NDB battery I mentioned uses. Or will use when the prototypes are built.

You should read this interview of NDB people in which they speak about first prototypes, pricing, battery life and other things.

@ps3linux @fitpOsitive @Hamartia Antidote ^^^

Nope that wouldn't work even short term. Bursts take mere minutes to reach the planet and they destroy the atmosphere so even if the person survives the air is literally blown away.
Building an atmosphere is a long term goal.

You may find this article interesting.

And Musk has said we can evaporate the ice caps to build an atmosphere.

Whoever holds the Moon holds the Earth in captivity.

Why do you think so ?


Nice pic, especially of the ones sitting and observing.


I don't think the habitats will be above ground.


Nice pic of a spaceship in Mars orbit.
 
.
I quote from it :

Your article is from 2018 and the above section mentions Carbon-14 which is what the NDB battery I mentioned uses. Or will use when the prototypes are built.

You should read this interview of NDB people in which they speak about first prototypes, pricing, battery life and other things.

@ps3linux @fitpOsitive @Hamartia Antidote ^^^






You may find this article interesting.

And Musk has said we can evaporate the ice caps to build an atmosphere.



Why do you think so ?



Nice pic, especially of the ones sitting and observing.



I don't think the habitats will be above ground.



Nice pic of a spaceship in Mars orbit.

If nuclear batteries have the same radiation levels as fire alarms then they should be ok.

.
 
.
Your article is from 2018 and the above section mentions Carbon-14 which is what the NDB battery I mentioned uses. Or will use when the prototypes are built.

You should read this interview of NDB people in which they speak about first prototypes, pricing, battery life and other things.
My point was that this technology is old I know newer ones are far more efficient but that is beside the point.
 
.
The Rocket Engine That Proves Solar Thermal Propulsion Isn't Just a Crazy Theory
Hello, interstellar travel.

BY TIM CHILDERS
NOV 23, 2020

saturn v rocket motor at white sands new mexico

AURORA4233
  • Engineers are designing a rocket engine powered by the sun.
  • The engine would use heated and pressurized hydrogen to achieve efficiencies three times greater than conventional rocket engines.
  • The researchers proposed using the sun to slingshot an experimental spacecraft into interstellar space.
Engineers at the Johns Hopkins University Applied Physics Laboratory are prototyping a previously theoretical rocket design that could someday take spacecraft to interstellar space. Their plan? Use heat from the sun, rather than combustion, to power a rocket engine.

Unlike a traditional engine that's mounted on the rear end of a rocket, the experimental solar-powered engine takes the shape of a flat shield made from black carbon foam. The engine would double as a heat shield, protecting the probe from the sun’s powerful rays, while coils of tubing filled with hydrogen lying beneath the surface absorb heat from the sun.

The hydrogen expands, becomes pressurized, and then explodes out from a nozzle, generating thrust. The scientists call it solar thermal propulsion.

“From a physics standpoint, it’s hard for me to imagine anything that’s going to beat solar thermal propulsion in terms of efficiency,” Jason Benkoski, a materials scientist at the Applied Physics Laboratory (APL), told WIRED. “But can you keep it from exploding?”

Benkoski and his colleagues from APL and NASA recently shared their design online at the 3rd Annual Interstellar Probe Exploration Workshop. According to Benkoski’s calculations, a real-life version of the engine could be three times more efficient than the most advanced chemical combustion engines used in today’s rockets.

In 2019, NASA partnered with APL to kick off its Interstellar Probe study. The study will determine missions that could be launched next decade to study science outside our sun’s sphere of influence. Where the solar system ends and where interstellar space begins isn’t completely agreed upon, but one metric is the boundary where the sun’s magnetic fields and solar winds that make up the heliosphere can no longer be detected—what scientists call the heliopause.

APL is looking for a probe that can travel three times farther than the outermost reaches of the heliosphere in less than two decades time—a distance of 50 billion miles. To put that into perspective, let’s take a look at the current record holder of the farthest distance traveled.

In 2012, the Voyager 1 spacecraft became the first manmade object to leave the confines of our solar system. After lifting off from NASA’s Kennedy Space Center in 1977 aboard the Titan III rocket, the space probe embarked on a 2-year journey to Jupiter, where it was slingshotted by the gas giant’s massive gravity to continue its journey to Saturn, Uranus, and Neptune. (See the spacecraft’s full timeline here).

As of today, almost four decades since its launch, Voyager 1 is more than 14 billion miles from Earth and traveling at 38 thousand miles per hour (mph). The team at APL wants to shatter this record by accelerating its spacecraft to 200,000 mph and making the journey in half the time.

To pull it off, the spacecraft will have to accomplish another first: performing an Oberth maneuver a mere million miles from the fiery surface of the sun. Coined by one of the founders of modern rocketry, Hermann Oberth, the maneuver takes advantage of the gravitational pull of a celestial body by using a spacecraft’s engines to further accelerate its fall into a gravitational well, as seen here:

oberth maneuver

CREATIVE COMMONS

It’s a lot like running down a hill to gain momentum for the uphill. The steeper the hill, or the closer you get to a gravitational body like the sun, the easier it is to gain speed and maximize your energy. The problem? The sun is very, very hot.

In 2025, NASA’s Parker Solar Probe will perform its closest approach to the sun. It will come within 4 million miles of the sun’s surface, travel at speeds exceeding 400,000 mph, and experience temperatures as high as 2,500 degrees Fahrenheit. To fight off the giant nuclear furnace’s heat, NASA equipped its probe with a 4.5-inch-thick carbon-composite shield.

If APL plans to send its probe within a million miles of the sun, it will need to withstand temperatures around 4,500 degrees Fahrenheit for 2.5 hours as it performs its Oberth maneuver. That’s why NASA is finding new materials that could coat the spacecraft and reflect the sun’s heat. Additionally, the hydrogen flowing through the heat shield could act like a radiator, displacing the thermal energy as propellant.

“We want to make a spacecraft that will go faster, further, and get closer to the sun than anything has ever done before,” Benkoski told WIRED. “It’s like the hardest thing you could possibly do.”

Benksoski and his colleagues at APL plan to submit a report on findings from their experimental rocket design next year.

---

Jamahir's comment : I have four thoughts :

1. This is such a simple system for in-space propulsion. Why didn't someone think of it before ?

2. How big will this shield / engine have to be if it has to propel a SpaceX Starship type craft.

3. Is it something to do with the physical and chemical properties of Hydrogen ( liquid ? ) that it will be used here instead of a Noble Gas like Xenon ( which is used in electric engines ) or Liquid Methane ( which SpaceX wants to use in the Starship ) ?

4. The spacecraft will still have to carry a conventional rocket engine to propel when the sun becomes hidden from the craft for a long time and when the sunlight is weak ( can a lens be used ? ) and when the craft has to land, say on Mars.

---

@ps3linux @Hamartia Antidote @Fawadqasim1 @Itachi
 
Last edited:
.
The Rocket Engine That Proves Solar Thermal Propulsion Isn't Just a Crazy Theory
Hello, interstellar travel.

BY TIM CHILDERS
NOV 23, 2020

saturn v rocket motor at white sands new mexico

AURORA4233
  • Engineers are designing a rocket engine powered by the sun.
  • The engine would use heated and pressurized hydrogen to achieve efficiencies three times greater than conventional rocket engines.
  • The researchers proposed using the sun to slingshot an experimental spacecraft into interstellar space.
Engineers at the Johns Hopkins University Applied Physics Laboratory are prototyping a previously theoretical rocket design that could someday take spacecraft to interstellar space. Their plan? Use heat from the sun, rather than combustion, to power a rocket engine.

Unlike a traditional engine that's mounted on the rear end of a rocket, the experimental solar-powered engine takes the shape of a flat shield made from black carbon foam. The engine would double as a heat shield, protecting the probe from the sun’s powerful rays, while coils of tubing filled with hydrogen lying beneath the surface absorb heat from the sun.

The hydrogen expands, becomes pressurized, and then explodes out from a nozzle, generating thrust. The scientists call it solar thermal propulsion.

“From a physics standpoint, it’s hard for me to imagine anything that’s going to beat solar thermal propulsion in terms of efficiency,” Jason Benkoski, a materials scientist at the Applied Physics Laboratory (APL), told WIRED. “But can you keep it from exploding?”

Benkoski and his colleagues from APL and NASA recently shared their design online at the 3rd Annual Interstellar Probe Exploration Workshop. According to Benkoski’s calculations, a real-life version of the engine could be three times more efficient than the most advanced chemical combustion engines used in today’s rockets.

In 2019, NASA partnered with APL to kick off its Interstellar Probe study. The study will determine missions that could be launched next decade to study science outside our sun’s sphere of influence. Where the solar system ends and where interstellar space begins isn’t completely agreed upon, but one metric is the boundary where the sun’s magnetic fields and solar winds that make up the heliosphere can no longer be detected—what scientists call the heliopause.

APL is looking for a probe that can travel three times farther than the outermost reaches of the heliosphere in less than two decades time—a distance of 50 billion miles. To put that into perspective, let’s take a look at the current record holder of the farthest distance traveled.

In 2012, the Voyager 1 spacecraft became the first manmade object to leave the confines of our solar system. After lifting off from NASA’s Kennedy Space Center in 1977 aboard the Titan III rocket, the space probe embarked on a 2-year journey to Jupiter, where it was slingshotted by the gas giant’s massive gravity to continue its journey to Saturn, Uranus, and Neptune. (See the spacecraft’s full timeline here).

As of today, almost four decades since its launch, Voyager 1 is more than 14 billion miles from Earth and traveling at 38 thousand miles per hour (mph). The team at APL wants to shatter this record by accelerating its spacecraft to 200,000 mph and making the journey in half the time.

To pull it off, the spacecraft will have to accomplish another first: performing an Oberth maneuver a mere million miles from the fiery surface of the sun. Coined by one of the founders of modern rocketry, Hermann Oberth, the maneuver takes advantage of the gravitational pull of a celestial body by using a spacecraft’s engines to further accelerate its fall into a gravitational well, as seen here:

oberth maneuver

CREATIVE COMMONS

It’s a lot like running down a hill to gain momentum for the uphill. The steeper the hill, or the closer you get to a gravitational body like the sun, the easier it is to gain speed and maximize your energy. The problem? The sun is very, very hot.

In 2025, NASA’s Parker Solar Probe will perform its closest approach to the sun. It will come within 4 million miles of the sun’s surface, travel at speeds exceeding 400,000 mph, and experience temperatures as high as 2,500 degrees Fahrenheit. To fight off the giant nuclear furnace’s heat, NASA equipped its probe with a 4.5-inch-thick carbon-composite shield.

If APL plans to send its probe within a million miles of the sun, it will need to withstand temperatures around 4,500 degrees Fahrenheit for 2.5 hours as it performs its Oberth maneuver. That’s why NASA is finding new materials that could coat the spacecraft and reflect the sun’s heat. Additionally, the hydrogen flowing through the heat shield could act like a radiator, displacing the thermal energy as propellant.

“We want to make a spacecraft that will go faster, further, and get closer to the sun than anything has ever done before,” Benkoski told WIRED. “It’s like the hardest thing you could possibly do.”

Benksoski and his colleagues at APL plan to submit a report on findings from their experimental rocket design next year.

---

Jamahir's comment : I have four thoughts :

1. This is such a simple system for in-space propulsion. Why didn't someone think of it before ?

2. How big will this shield / engine have to be if it has to propel a SpaceX Starship type craft.

3. Is it something to do with the physical and chemical properties of Hydrogen ( liquid ? ) that it will be used here instead of a Noble Gas like Xenon ( which is used in electric engines ) or Liquid Methane ( which SpaceX wants to use in the Starship ) ?

4. The spacecraft will still have to carry a conventional rocket engine to propel when the sun becomes hidden from the craft for a long time and when the sunlight is weak ( can a lens be used ? ) and when the craft has to land, say on Mars.

---

@ps3linux @Hamartia Antidote @Fawadqasim1 @Itachi
It depends on the scale, mass, dimensions of the spacecraft and its distance from the sun
 
. .
'Conscientiousness' key to team success during space missions
by Staff Writers

London, Canada (SPX) Nov 19, 2020

amadee-18-program-analog-astronauts-joao-lousada-and-stefan-dobrovolny-sunset-hg.jpg
Analog astronauts Joao Lousada and Stefan Dobrovolny before sunset.

NASA is working towards sending humans to Mars by 2030. If all goes according to plan, the flight crew's return trip to the red planet will take about two-and-half years. That's a long time to spend, uninterrupted, with co-workers. Now, imagine if the astronauts don't get along with each other?

To help ensure that doesn't happen, a new study led by Western University tested team dynamics of five astronauts during an analog Mars mission staged by the Austrian Space Forum in 2018 in Oman, a country that shares borders with Yemen, United Arab Emirates and Saudi Arabia.

The study found that 'conscientiousness' is a key requirement for a crew to achieve its extraterrestrial tasks, outdistancing other potential traits like 'honesty,' 'humility,' 'emotionality,' 'extraversion,' 'openness' and 'agreeableness.'

"Conscientiousness, an individual personality trait, can be thought of as a pooled team-resource," said Julia McMenamin, a Western psychology PhD candidate and first author of the paper published by Astrobiology. "The more conscientiousness a team is, the better they will likely be at accomplishing tasks."

On the other end of scale, counterproductive behaviours like 'social loafing' - the tendency for people to exert less effort when working as part of a team than they do when working alone - will likely mean a no-go for launch for potential astronauts heading to Mars.

Counterproductive or negative behaviours that commonly cause trouble in teams should be non-negotiables for long duration spaceflight, and great efforts must be made to make them less likely to occur, says McMenamin.

Strategies to reduce counterproductive behaviours include careful selection of crew members, detailed planning and work processes, and an emphasis on effective communication between team members - factors that should be incorporated into all teamwork experiences.

McMenamin and Western psychology professor Natalie Allen teamed up with Mission Control Space Services chief science officer and Western alumna Melissa Battler on the study. Mission Control is an Ottawa-based space exploration and robotics company.

Before, during and after the four-week AMADEE-18 analog space mission, which simulated a Mars environment featuring isolated and extreme conditions, the analog astronauts completed surveys assessing team conflict, team performance and stress levels. The final survey asked the analog astronauts to rate each of their teammates, and themselves, on citizenship behaviour, in-role behaviour, counterproductive work behaviour and social loafing.

"Anyone who has worked on a team knows conflict amongst team members can harm team performance and make for a negative experience. When people argue about how to get things done, or get into personal disagreements, there is less time and energy left for completing tasks," said McMenamin.

"What's interesting is that there are different types of conflict, and so long as interpersonal issues and arguments about how to go about accomplishing tasks are avoided, differences in views and opinions might actually improve team performance likely because this allows for the team to benefit from each member's knowledge and perspective."

Beyond conflict, acute stress can also impact teams negatively on Earth and apparently in space, says McMenamin. Stress creates distractions, contributes to task overload, increases destructive emotions or feelings of anxiety and worry and makes things difficult for team members to coordinate their work.

The study also showed the crew of AMADEE-18 analog space mission worked very well together but McMenamin says the results were not surprising as the analog astronauts were well-prepared, had the support of a field crew and mission control team, and were familiar with one another heading into the mission, major determinants of team success here on Earth too.

"How familiar team members are with one another has been shown to help teams work better together likely because it provides team members with knowledge about each other and helps them communicate better and more efficiently," said McMenamin.

Since the AMADEE-18 analog mission spanned just a few weeks, McMenamin says it's uncertain how team dynamics and performance would have changed over a longer time period.

"Major issues caused by psychological distress and interpersonal problems don't tend to show up until months or even years spent in an isolated, confined, and extreme environment, which highlights the need for longer-duration simulations," said McMenamin.

Moving forward, McMenamin would also like to see teamwork studies focused on the mission control environment, an interest fueled by her participation in CanMoon Mission, a lunar sample return analogue joint mission between Western, the University of Winnipeg and the Canadian Space Agency.

---
Jamahir's note : People who have lived with cats will be calmer and more collaborative than others.
---

@ps3linux ( when you are well )

@Hamartia Antidote @Fawadqasim1 @Itachi
 
.
Elon Musk Swears He'll Send Humans to Mars by 2026. That Seems Impossible.
Caroline Delbert
Thu 3 December 2020, 10:27 PM IST·4-min read

f66d0fcf9b84fa20ae3876a38dd7902a

From Popular Mechanics
At an awards ceremony this week, Elon Musk said he believes he can start sending humans to Mars with SpaceX by 2026 at the latest, or 2024 “if we get lucky.”

You love Elon Musk's crazy ideas. So do we. Let's nerd out over them together.

Was Musk talking up his timeline to a group that just awarded him for innovation (the SpaceX founder won this year's Axel Springer Award), or does he actually believe this? It's hard to say. But the timeline is, to put it mildly, unlikely.

SpaceX has partnered with NASA on several projects, including making a customized lunar shuttle to travel between the moon’s orbit and surface for the Artemis series of missions. NASA’s Artemis program wants to put people on the moon by 2024, and even that mission’s plans are called “an aggressive timeline” by NASA administrators.

NASA says the moon goal is critical to the next phase of traveling to Mars, but the agency hasn’t set any timeline for that phase. The 2024 goal was imposed from outside by Vice President Mike Pence (it was originally 2028).

In the meantime, the rocket Musk is relying on to get to Mars as soon as 2024 is about to complete a big test. Later this week, SpaceX is set to launch SN8, its latest Starship prototype, to a target altitude of 9 miles (15 kilometers)—easily the highest a Starship has ever flown. SN8 has three engines, and that's still 27 fewer than the 30 engines that will power the Starship that Musk ultimately plans to send to Mars.

Even with a capable spacecraft in hand, a lot of the problems with a Mars journey haven't even come close to being solved. The trip to Mars takes six months on Musk’s planned timeline, meaning anyone inside the ship will be exposed to cosmic radiation for almost that entire time.

Blocking—or even reducing—that radiation would mean adding weight to an already unproven craft on an untried human journey. Volunteers have spent that much time in simulated flight conditions, but no real people have actually made the real and dangerous journey.

So let’s say humans make the six-month trip with all the supplies they need, touch down on Mars, then immediately return to Earth. The ship will either need to have the full round trip worth of supplies or be able to refuel and restock using some kind of technology to recycle or harvest resources from what Mars has available.

This is easy in the world of science fiction, where creators have posited “matter recyclers” that make extremely clean, reusable atoms. In the real world, however, we can barely recycle plastic with efficiency.

And Musk plans for these people to stay on Mars, not just travel. That means finding safe shelter that, again, protects the Mars settlers from cosmic radiation. They’ll need clean water, a way to produce energy, a very secure air supply and containment, and much more.

Musk has suggested using a nuclear reactor at several points in this journey, from on the ship itself to shorten the trip, to on the Red Planet’s surface as a generator. That, too, could have radioactive consequences for the settlers—but without it, it’s even harder to imagine how this situation can be made livable.

Musk seems to be relying on a combination of comparative optimism and techno-optimism. “Comparative optimism can be defined as a self-serving, asymmetric judgment of the future,” researchers explain.

The term has come up in 2020 as people decide to go out without masks, have social gatherings that are against public health guidelines, and engage in other behaviors that fall under a general umbrella of “we’ll figure it out, it will be fine.”

It’s hard to imagine how the many and major obstacles between today and a human Mars flight will be resolved by 2026. But then again, Musk has proven everyone wrong before.
 
.
How to get people from Earth to Mars and safely back again

by Chris James | Lecturer UQ
Brisbane, Australia (The Conversation) Dec 23, 2020

nasa-earth-moon-mars-2018-chart-hg.jpg
illustration only

There are many things humanity must overcome before any return journey to Mars is launched.

The two major players are NASA and SpaceX, which work together intimately on missions to the International Space Station but have competing ideas of what a crewed Mars mission would look like.

The biggest challenge (or constraint) is the mass of the payload (spacecraft, people, fuel, supplies etc) needed to make the journey.

We still talk about launching something into space being like launching its weight in gold.
The payload mass is usually just a small percentage of the total mass of the launch vehicle.

Size matters

For example, the Saturn V rocket that launched Apollo 11 to the Moon weighed 3,000 tonnes.
But it could launch only 140 tonnes (5% of its initial launch mass) to low Earth orbit, and 50 tonnes (less than 2% of its initial launch mass) to the Moon.

Mass constrains the size of a Mars spacecraft and what it can do in space. Every manoeuvre costs fuel to fire rocket motors, and this fuel must currently be carried into space on the spacecraft.

SpaceX's plan is for its crewed Starship vehicle to be refuelled in space by a separately launched fuel tanker. That means much more fuel can be carried into orbit than could be carried on a single launch.

Time matters

Another challenge, intimately connected with fuel, is time.

Missions that send spacecraft with no crew to the outer planets often travel complex trajectories around the Sun. They use what are called gravity assist manoeuvres to effectively slingshot around different planets to gain enough momentum to reach their target.

This saves a lot of fuel, but can result in missions that take years to reach their destinations. Clearly this is something humans would not want to do.

Both Earth and Mars have (almost) circular orbits and a manoeuvre known as the Hohmann transfer is the most fuel-efficient way to travel between two planets. Basically, without going into too much detail, this is where a spacecraft does a single burn into an elliptical transfer orbit from one planet to the other.

A Hohmann transfer between Earth and Mars takes around 259 days (between eight and nine months) and is only possible approximately every two years due to the different orbits around the Sun of Earth and Mars.

A spacecraft could reach Mars in a shorter time (SpaceX is claiming six months) but - you guessed it - it would cost more fuel to do it that way.

Safe landing

Suppose our spacecraft and crew get to Mars. The next challenge is landing.

A spacecraft entering Earth is able to use the drag generated by interaction with the atmosphere to slow down. This allows the craft to land safely on the Earth's surface (provided it can survive the related heating).

But the atmosphere on Mars is about 100 times thinner than Earth's. That means less potential for drag, so it isn't possible to land safely without some kind of aid.

Some missions have landed on airbags (such as NASA's Pathfider mission) while others have used thrusters (NASA's Phoenix mission). The latter, once again, requires more fuel.

Life on Mars

A Martian day lasts 24 hours and 37 minutes but the similarities with Earth stop there.

The thin atmosphere on Mars means it can't retain heat as well as Earth does, so life on Mars is characterised by large extremes in temperature during the day/night cycle.

Mars has a maximum temperature of 30?, which sounds quite pleasant, but its minimum temperature is -140?, and its average temperature is -63?. The average winter temperature at the Earth's South Pole is about -49?.

So we need to be very selective about where we choose to live on Mars and how we manage temperature during the night.

The gravity on Mars is 38% of Earth's (so you'd feel lighter) but the air is principally carbon dioxide (CO2) with several percent of nitrogen, so it's completely unbreathable. We would need to build a climate-controlled place just to live there.

SpaceX plans to launch several cargo flights including critical infrastructure such as greenhouses, solar panels and - you guessed it - a fuel-production facility for return missions to Earth.

Life on Mars would be possible and several simulation trials have already been done on Earth to see how people would cope with such an existence.

Return to Earth

The final challenge is the return journey and getting people safely back to Earth.

Apollo 11 entered Earth's atmosphere at about 40,000km/h, which is just below the velocity required to escape Earth's orbit.

Spacecraft returning from Mars will have re-entry velocities from 47,000km/h to 54,000km/h, depending on the orbit they use to arrive at Earth.

They could slow down into low orbit around Earth to around 28,800km/h before entering our atmosphere but - you guessed it - they'd need extra fuel to do that.

If they just barrel into the atmosphere, it will do all of the deceleration for them. We just need to make sure we don't kill the astronauts with G-forces or burn them up due to excess heating.

These are just some of the challenges facing a Mars mission and all of the technological building blocks to achieve this are there. We just need to spend the time and the money and bring it all together.

---

@ps3linux @Hamartia Antidote @Fawadqasim1

Just some technical facts.
 
.
How to get people from Earth to Mars and safely back again

by Chris James | Lecturer UQ
Brisbane, Australia (The Conversation) Dec 23, 2020

nasa-earth-moon-mars-2018-chart-hg.jpg
illustration only


There are many things humanity must overcome before any return journey to Mars is launched.

The two major players are NASA and SpaceX, which work together intimately on missions to the International Space Station but have competing ideas of what a crewed Mars mission would look like.

The biggest challenge (or constraint) is the mass of the payload (spacecraft, people, fuel, supplies etc) needed to make the journey.

We still talk about launching something into space being like launching its weight in gold.
The payload mass is usually just a small percentage of the total mass of the launch vehicle.

Size matters

For example, the Saturn V rocket that launched Apollo 11 to the Moon weighed 3,000 tonnes.
But it could launch only 140 tonnes (5% of its initial launch mass) to low Earth orbit, and 50 tonnes (less than 2% of its initial launch mass) to the Moon.

Mass constrains the size of a Mars spacecraft and what it can do in space. Every manoeuvre costs fuel to fire rocket motors, and this fuel must currently be carried into space on the spacecraft.

SpaceX's plan is for its crewed Starship vehicle to be refuelled in space by a separately launched fuel tanker. That means much more fuel can be carried into orbit than could be carried on a single launch.

Time matters

Another challenge, intimately connected with fuel, is time.

Missions that send spacecraft with no crew to the outer planets often travel complex trajectories around the Sun. They use what are called gravity assist manoeuvres to effectively slingshot around different planets to gain enough momentum to reach their target.

This saves a lot of fuel, but can result in missions that take years to reach their destinations. Clearly this is something humans would not want to do.

Both Earth and Mars have (almost) circular orbits and a manoeuvre known as the Hohmann transfer is the most fuel-efficient way to travel between two planets. Basically, without going into too much detail, this is where a spacecraft does a single burn into an elliptical transfer orbit from one planet to the other.

A Hohmann transfer between Earth and Mars takes around 259 days (between eight and nine months) and is only possible approximately every two years due to the different orbits around the Sun of Earth and Mars.

A spacecraft could reach Mars in a shorter time (SpaceX is claiming six months) but - you guessed it - it would cost more fuel to do it that way.

Safe landing

Suppose our spacecraft and crew get to Mars. The next challenge is landing.

A spacecraft entering Earth is able to use the drag generated by interaction with the atmosphere to slow down. This allows the craft to land safely on the Earth's surface (provided it can survive the related heating).

But the atmosphere on Mars is about 100 times thinner than Earth's. That means less potential for drag, so it isn't possible to land safely without some kind of aid.

Some missions have landed on airbags (such as NASA's Pathfider mission) while others have used thrusters (NASA's Phoenix mission). The latter, once again, requires more fuel.

Life on Mars

A Martian day lasts 24 hours and 37 minutes but the similarities with Earth stop there.

The thin atmosphere on Mars means it can't retain heat as well as Earth does, so life on Mars is characterised by large extremes in temperature during the day/night cycle.

Mars has a maximum temperature of 30?, which sounds quite pleasant, but its minimum temperature is -140?, and its average temperature is -63?. The average winter temperature at the Earth's South Pole is about -49?.

So we need to be very selective about where we choose to live on Mars and how we manage temperature during the night.

The gravity on Mars is 38% of Earth's (so you'd feel lighter) but the air is principally carbon dioxide (CO2) with several percent of nitrogen, so it's completely unbreathable. We would need to build a climate-controlled place just to live there.

SpaceX plans to launch several cargo flights including critical infrastructure such as greenhouses, solar panels and - you guessed it - a fuel-production facility for return missions to Earth.

Life on Mars would be possible and several simulation trials have already been done on Earth to see how people would cope with such an existence.

Return to Earth

The final challenge is the return journey and getting people safely back to Earth.

Apollo 11 entered Earth's atmosphere at about 40,000km/h, which is just below the velocity required to escape Earth's orbit.

Spacecraft returning from Mars will have re-entry velocities from 47,000km/h to 54,000km/h, depending on the orbit they use to arrive at Earth.

They could slow down into low orbit around Earth to around 28,800km/h before entering our atmosphere but - you guessed it - they'd need extra fuel to do that.

If they just barrel into the atmosphere, it will do all of the deceleration for them. We just need to make sure we don't kill the astronauts with G-forces or burn them up due to excess heating.

These are just some of the challenges facing a Mars mission and all of the technological building blocks to achieve this are there. We just need to spend the time and the money and bring it all together.

---

@ps3linux @Hamartia Antidote @Fawadqasim1

Just some technical facts.

First off due to reusability SpaceX is likely going to leverage multiple craft. For instance it could easily send multiple tankers to Mars ahead of time. When the manned mission gets there they can top off before landing. After they launch off the surface they can top off again. When they return to earth they can top off again to slow themselves from 48,000 to say 17,000.

I think they might get into trouble by leveraging too much fuel not a shortage of it.

They might try and significantly shorten the travel time by getting up to a crazy speed and hoping to rendezvous with a tanker to slow down...unfortunately they then risk overshooting Mars or Earth's orbit if they fail to rendezvous.
 
Last edited:
.
I think they might get into trouble by leveraging too much fuel not a shortage of it.

They might try and significantly shorten the travel time by getting up to a crazy speed and hoping to rendezvous with a tanker to slow down...unfortunately they then risk overshooting Mars or Earth's orbit if they fail to rendezvous.

Good point.

And what do you think is the max speed a chemically propelled craft could get to, without worrying about the rendezvous part ? Let me ask you some basics : If a spacecraft beyond Earth orbit fired the engine for a minute and got to say 48,000 kms per hour would stopping the engine and then firing the moving craft double its speed ? Especially if we are talking about going from Earth to beyond Mars.
 
.
Good point.

And what do you think is the max speed a chemically propelled craft could get to, without worrying about the rendezvous part ? Let me ask you some basics : If a spacecraft beyond Earth orbit fired the engine for a minute and got to say 48,000 kms per hour would stopping the engine and then firing the moving craft double its speed ? Especially if we are talking about going from Earth to beyond Mars.

Well the Parker Space probe was over 400,000mph.
However mass is the big factor which will keep Starships from hitting that speed.

 
.

Latest posts

Country Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom