South China Sea Forum

[Place Of Space]

you again with Middle Kingdom complex


You forget the gang on the other side of the street: the US/JP military alliance

@Suika


My proposal serves very well China interests, not the number of your warships. Remember, in the old days during the military clash with the Ming navy, we fielded 1,000 warships onto the water. Ok I admit those ships were of course smaller and weaker than your present day frigate and destroyer. Anyway we have less warships but possess land based antiship missiles that pose a serious threat to any Navy operating in the SC sea.

That's gang is not a problem. We can use every chance to negociate peace and cooperation with US. But you give me a reason, why I need to negociate with Vietnam?

 

[GS Zhou]

My proposal serves very well China interests, not the number of your warships. Remember, in the old days during the military clash with the Ming navy, we fielded 1,000 warships onto the water. Ok I admit those ships were of course smaller and weaker than your present day frigate and destroyer. Anyway we have less warships but possess land based antiship missiles that pose a serious threat to any Navy operating in the SC sea.

thanks to your consideration on "China's interests", altough I don't think it really serves China's interests as you claim. Anyway, you at least display a "softer" attitude than VCP, which is a very nice start. I like it.

I don't want to waste time to discuss the wargame like Bastion-P vs. 052C/D. Believe me, 052C/D, incl. the radars, missiles and CIWS, they have passed faaaaaaaaar more difficult tests, before the mass production.

BTW, to be honest, the scenario that you imagined, a fair game land-based ASM vs. 052C/D, actually won't happen in reality. The war in tomorrow is a war of "system vs. system". Instead of bragging the might of your land-based ASM, you'd better ask yourself, if its launch site, the detection radars, communication lines, could function smoothly in wartime like in peaceful time.

You forget the gang on the other side of the street: the US/JP military alliance

Yeah, US is always a reliable partner to Vietnam!

 

[Viet]

That's gang is not a problem. We can use every chance to negociate peace and cooperation with US. But you give me a reason, why I need to negociate with Vietnam?

Have you ever bought a house? I do several times. Location is everything. Vietnam is next to the sea lanes, we know the name of every single fish, we control more islands and reefs than any other. Our military might is feared by our neighbors. Reasons enough?

 

[GS Zhou]

we control more islands and reefs than any other.

That's very true at the current moment, I fully agree with you. But this is also what we want to change. As I said in my previous post, you and I are both young enough to see that day to come.

 

[Place Of Space]

Have you ever bought a house? I do several times. Location is everything. Vietnam is next to the sea lanes, we know the name of every single fish, we control more islands and reefs than any other. Our military might is feared by our neighbors. Reasons enough?

China is on the sea lanes. Your military might don't chanllenge others, you won't fear anything, however, Be feared is better than be destoryed.

 

[GS Zhou]

No more China peaceful rise?

To get back our waters, islands and reefs that stolen by other countries is part of the scope of "rise". I hope we can realize this mission by diplomatic negotiation. But of course, peace or war, this is not decided by China alone. Hope SCS area could always maintain peace and prosperous.

 

[samsara]

The Ganquan Island 甘泉岛 of Xisha Yongle Islands 西沙朱棣岛 is seen in south China's Hainan Province, April 23, 2017. Sansha City, on Yongxing 永兴岛, one of the Xisha Islands, was founded in July 2012. The city sees tourism as its main economic engine and administers three island groups -- the Xisha 西沙群岛, Zhongsha 中沙群岛 and Nansha 南沙群岛 -- along with surrounding waters. (Xinhua/Guo Cheng)

 

[UMNOPutra]

Now .. we know who are the winner and lossers ...
-------
'Game over' for PHL if China finishes building in Scarborough –Justice Carpio
Published May 16, 2017 7:02pm
Updated May 16, 2017 10:30pm
By JOSEPH TRISTAN ROXAS, GMA News
It will be "game over" for the Philippines if China will be allowed to continue building military facilities in Scarborough Shoal unrestricted, Supreme Court Senior Associate Justice Antonio Carpio said Tuesday.

"The flashpoint really is Scarborough Shoal and to me that’s the biggest worry because once China completes its air and naval bases in Scarborough Shoal, it would be game over for many of us because China will have control of the South China," Carpio said.

He also told in the defense symposium that not only the Scarborough Shoal is the "next flashpoint" of the territorial row between the Philippines and China, it is also the "missing piece" in China's full control of South China Sea.

"We are nearing a point where China is about to take full control of South China Sea," Carpio said. "Scarborough Shoal is the missing piece."

Scarborough Shoal, or Panatag Shoal, is inside the Philippines' exclusive economic zone, but China claims it is covered by its "nine-dash line" — a claim invalidated last year by a United Nations (UN) Arbitral Tribunal.

Despite the ruling of the Permanent Court of Arbitration in The Netherlands, Beijing continued its development of artificial islands in the disputed territory.

Carpio, who was one of the country’s legal team that argued the Philippine case at the PCA, said Scarborough Shoal is the last piece for China to declare the South China Sea as within its territorial boundaries after it completes building military facilities in its artificial islands.

"Military facilities of China will be beneficial in making nine-dash line claim as their territorial boundaries," he said.

Vietnam

The Supreme Court magistrate had long called on the administration of President Rodrigo Duterte, which has been seeking warmer ties with China to firmly engage with Beijing regarding the territorial dispute.

Carpio said the country can follow how Vietnam engages with China, saying the Vietnamese know how to fight for its territory with the Chinese in the Paracel Islands despite the warm economic ties between the two countries.

"I always look at Vietnam. Vietnam has strong relations with China but Vietnam is strong in defending its maritime zones," he said.

"Every time China does something Vietnam protests officially and they remain friends with China in terms of business relations," Carpio added.

He also noted that Vietnam is always "on guard" against China, and urged the Duterte administration to do the same.

Test US commitment on MDT

Carpio said the Philippines could test the commitment of the United States in the Mutual Defense Treaty (MDT) if the country sends one of its naval ships in Scarborough Shoal.

“We can send our Navy ship there and wait for it to be attacked because any attack on that armed vessel of the Philippines can trigger the operation of the MDT,” Carpio said.

“If it’s attacked, then the US will have to decide if it will honor the treaty or not," he added.

The Philippines signed the MDT with the US in 1951 for defense and develop assistance. The Visiting Forces Agreement is also under the MDT.

Carpio, however, said that the Americans sending their troops in Scarborough Shoal would be for naught if the Philippines itself would not defend it.

“If we ourselves are not going to defend Scarborough Shoal, why would the Americans send their soldiers to die there on the rocks?” Carpio said. —KBK/NB, GMA News

- See more at: http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/news...gh-justice-carpio/story/#sthash.H9mwISSZ.dpuf

 

[BHarwana]

China has reportedly further militarized a disputed reef in the South China Sea, just days after agreeing to minimize tensions with Vietnam.
China’s increasing military capabilities are proudly on display: according to Chinese state-run newspaper the Defense Times, Norinco CS-AR-1 55mm rocket launchers have been installed on the Fiery Cross Reef in the Spratly Islands. The defense systems are able to detect and engage enemy combat divers.

Frogmen are mainly used by Special Forces divisions since underwater divers and small-scale vehicles are notoriously difficult for to target. They have been used by Vietnam since 2014 to install particular fishing nets throughout the South China Sea.

In 2014, Vietnamese frogmen were reported to have been involved in placing obstacles around a Chinese oil rig to interfere with drilling. “40 percent of losses in naval warfare history took place at the anchor site because warships or other facilities are too large to evade enemy fire,” People’s Liberation Army Navy commander Zhang Lisong told the Global Times.

An expert on Chinese navy threats told the Global Times at the time that Vietnamese frogmen would constitute China’s toughest enemy in the future.

The reef where the cannons were mounted is claimed by the Philippines, Taiwan and Vietnam but controlled by China.

On Tuesday, a joint statement from China and Vietnam stated Beijing would "not take any actions to complicate the situation," Sputnik reported, which is important for the safe passage of $5 trillion worth of trade transiting the South China Sea annually.

https://sputniknews.com/asia/201705171053714090-military-china-installs-guns-scs/

 

[Place Of Space]

Vietnamese frogman is famous, they once and only the one who sunk American aircrafts carrier.

 

[tada]

Vietnamese frogman is famous, they once and only the one who sunk American aircrafts carrier.

as I know there is not suck thing vietnamese frog men sunk American aircraft carries. all the story in guf of tokin vietnamese sunking american carries . because all this this is make up buy american

 

[samsara]

Now .. we know who are the winner and lossers ...
-------
'Game over' for PHL if China finishes building in Scarborough –Justice Carpio
Published May 16, 2017 7:02pm
Updated May 16, 2017 10:30pm
By JOSEPH TRISTAN ROXAS, GMA News
It will be "game over" for the Philippines if China will be allowed to continue building military facilities in Scarborough Shoal unrestricted, Supreme Court Senior Associate Justice Antonio Carpio said Tuesday.

"The flashpoint really is Scarborough Shoal and to me that’s the biggest worry because once China completes its air and naval bases in Scarborough Shoal, it would be game over for many of us because China will have control of the South China," Carpio said.

He also told in the defense symposium that not only the Scarborough Shoal is the "next flashpoint" of the territorial row between the Philippines and China, it is also the "missing piece" in China's full control of South China Sea.

"We are nearing a point where China is about to take full control of South China Sea," Carpio said. "Scarborough Shoal is the missing piece."

Scarborough Shoal, or Panatag Shoal, is inside the Philippines' exclusive economic zone, but China claims it is covered by its "nine-dash line" — a claim invalidated last year by a United Nations (UN) Arbitral Tribunal.

Despite the ruling of the Permanent Court of Arbitration in The Netherlands, Beijing continued its development of artificial islands in the disputed territory.

Carpio, who was one of the country’s legal team that argued the Philippine case at the PCA, said Scarborough Shoal is the last piece for China to declare the South China Sea as within its territorial boundaries after it completes building military facilities in its artificial islands.

"Military facilities of China will be beneficial in making nine-dash line claim as their territorial boundaries," he said.

Vietnam

The Supreme Court magistrate had long called on the administration of President Rodrigo Duterte, which has been seeking warmer ties with China to firmly engage with Beijing regarding the territorial dispute.

Carpio said the country can follow how Vietnam engages with China, saying the Vietnamese know how to fight for its territory with the Chinese in the Paracel Islands despite the warm economic ties between the two countries.

"I always look at Vietnam. Vietnam has strong relations with China but Vietnam is strong in defending its maritime zones," he said.

"Every time China does something Vietnam protests officially and they remain friends with China in terms of business relations," Carpio added.

He also noted that Vietnam is always "on guard" against China, and urged the Duterte administration to do the same.

Test US commitment on MDT

Carpio said the Philippines could test the commitment of the United States in the Mutual Defense Treaty (MDT) if the country sends one of its naval ships in Scarborough Shoal.

“We can send our Navy ship there and wait for it to be attacked because any attack on that armed vessel of the Philippines can trigger the operation of the MDT,” Carpio said.

“If it’s attacked, then the US will have to decide if it will honor the treaty or not," he added.

The Philippines signed the MDT with the US in 1951 for defense and develop assistance. The Visiting Forces Agreement is also under the MDT.

Carpio, however, said that the Americans sending their troops in Scarborough Shoal would be for naught if the Philippines itself would not defend it.

“If we ourselves are not going to defend Scarborough Shoal, why would the Americans send their soldiers to die there on the rocks?” Carpio said. —KBK/NB, GMA News

- See more at: http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/news...gh-justice-carpio/story/#sthash.H9mwISSZ.dpuf

The PHI Supreme Court Senior Associate Justice Antonio Carpio just sounded what also represents the utmost interests of the USA think tank and military interests to maintain the encirclement of China within The First Island Chain! Wonder if he's one of their men in Manila.

Read on below excerpt from an article articulating the opinion of an expert at the U.S. Naval War College (NWC) before a Congress panel in February, 2017:

The panel was titled “China’s Hypersonic and Maneuverable Re-Entry Vehicle Programs” and also included James Acton, co-director of Nuclear Policy Program and senior fellow, Carnegie Endowment for International Peace; and Mark Stokes, executive director, Project 2049 Institute.

In closing, Andrew S. Erickson gave USCC some direction on where U.S. policy might go next.

“U.S. policymakers should enhance efforts at developing tailored countermeasures, particularly concerning electronic warfare,” Erickson said. “(U.S. should also) attempt to ensure that China doesn’t develop Scarborough Shoal into a key targeting node in the South China Sea, and increase U.S. Navy ship numbers to avoid presenting China with an over-concentrated target set.”​

The USCC was created by the United States Congress in October 2000 with the legislative mandate to monitor, investigate, and submit to Congress an annual report on the national security implications of the bilateral trade and economic relationship between the United States and the People’s Republic of China, and to provide recommendations, where appropriate, to Congress for legislative and administrative action.

----------------

Due to the very strategic position of Huangyan Dao 黄岩岛 ("Scarborough Shoal") as explicitly articulated by the U.S. Naval War College's expert, Andrew S. Erickson, in relation to USA's encirclement strategy to limit China's naval force free movement within The First Chain Island only, then China has no choice but to act firmly to secure that strategic position to free itself from the Pentagon's entanglement! For this fundamental reason, in no way China should entertain any attempt by some factions in PHI to block its full entrance there!

 

[TaiShang]

Scarborough Shoal, or Panatag Shoal, is inside the Philippines' exclusive economic zone, but China claims it is covered by its "nine-dash line" — a claim invalidated last year by a United Nations (UN) Arbitral Tribunal.

The paid Kangaroo Court (PCA) has nothing to do with the UN. It is not a UN institution. The Court just happen to rent a building owned by the UN.

If I pay enough money, I can also buy a verdict on my behalf in the court. Many Australian and US 'experts' got rich on the back of the Philippines' hard earned tax money, which the US declined to pay off.

 

[xiao qi]

China installs Rocket Launchers to ward off Vietnamese Military Combat Divers

• 

China has installed rocket launchers on a disputed reef in the South China Sea+ to ward off Vietnamese military combat divers, according to a state-run newspaper, offering new details on China's ongoing military build-up.

China has said military construction on the islands it controls in the South China Sea will be limited to necessary defensive requirements, and that it can do what it likes on its own territory.

The United States has criticized what it has called China's militarization of its maritime outposts and stressed the need for freedom of navigation by conducting periodic air and naval patrols near them that have angered Beijing.

The state-run Defense Times newspaper, in a Tuesday report on its WeChat account, said Norinco CS/AR-1 55mm anti-frogman rocket launcher defense systems with the capability to discover, identify and attack enemy combat divers had been installed on Fiery Cross Reef in the Spratly Islands.

Fiery Cross Reef is administered by China but also claimed by the Philippines, Vietnam and Taiwan.

The report did not say when the defense system was installed, but said it was part of a response that began in May 2014, when Vietnamese divers installed large numbers of fishing nets in the Paracel Islands.

China has conducted extensive land reclamation work at Fiery Cross Reef, including building an airport, one of several Chinese-controlled features in the South China Sea where China has carried out such work.

More than $5 trillion of world trade is shipped through the South China Sea every year. Besides China's territorial claims in the area, Vietnam, Malaysia, Brunei, the Philippines and Taiwan have rival claims.
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-southchinasea-china-idUSKCN18D0ER

 

[Viet]

The paid Kangaroo Court (PCA) has nothing to do with the UN. It is not a UN institution. The Court just happen to rent a building owned by the UN.

If I pay enough money, I can also buy a verdict on my behalf in the court. Many Australian and US 'experts' got rich on the back of the Philippines' hard earned tax money, which the US declined to pay off.

it is not as easy as you thought.

Look: PCA is older than UN, established on Haugue Convention of 1899, signed by 121 nations including China. yes, China is a member of the Haugue Convention, hence committed to PCA. the ruling of PCA is accepted by G7, the most powerful club on the planet. that matters. UN or not does not matter. so either you quit the convention, including UNCLOS, or you are free to found your own convention, your own court, your own money, but the problem is your ruling will be only accepted by China politbuero. nobody else.

in short, China 9-dash claim is worthless and dumped. questions?