South China Sea Forum

[cochine]

I like your debate.

While you said the vice PM from VCP can not represent the entire Vietnam, good argument. On the other hand, you insist a map drawn by no body, just because it mentions Jiaozhi Sea, it could represent the entire China.

Good debating skill!!

This notice letter of PM North Vietnam (Vietnam Democratic Republik) not VCP (Vietnam Communist Party) to PM China about 12 mile coastline of Mainland China, just the clarification the nature of 12 mile Coast line to North Vietnam.

Jiaozhi Sea it does mean that Vietnam Sea. You can check ancient map printed in China in the past.

Smart and educated Chinese can understand my comment.

 

[GS Zhou]

This notice letter of PM North Vietnam (Vietnam Democratic Republik) not VCP (Vietnam Communist Party) to PM China about 12 mile coastline of Mainland China, just the clarification the nature of 12 mile Coast line to North Vietnam.

Jiaozhi Sea it does mean that Vietnam Sea. You can check ancient map printed in China in the past.

Smart and educated Chinese can understand my comment.

The name of the water/region doesn't mean anything about its ownership. Japan Sea, Indian Ocean, China Lake (in US), Queensland (in Australia), but so what? A large part of Japan even called as 中国, so?

Thái Nguyên (太原) is part of Vietnam. But 太原 is also name of the capital city of China's Shanxi Province. Shall I thereof claim Thái Nguyên belongs to Shanxi Province? Never! Thái Nguyên is always a part of Vietnam that I won't have doubt at all.

Đông Kinh (东京) is the ancient name of Hanoi. Meanwhile 东京 is also the ancient name of China's Kaifeng (in Henan Province); 东京 is still the name of Japan's capital city. Does it mean Đông Kinh/Hanoi belongs to China or Japan? Or Kaifeng, Tokyo belongs to Vietnam?

This notice letter of PM North Vietnam (Vietnam Democratic Republik) not VCP (Vietnam Communist Party) to PM

the letter from is from Phạm Văn Đồng, one of the top leaders of VCP, who is still the ruling party of Vietnam today.

 

[cochine]

The name of the water/region doesn't mean anything about its ownership. Japan Sea, Indian Ocean, China Lake (in US), Queensland (in Australia), but so what? A large part of Japan even called as 中国, so?
View attachment 382926


Thái Nguyên (太原) is part of Vietnam. But 太原 is also name of the capital city of China's Shanxi Province. Shall I thereof claim Thái Nguyên belongs to Shanxi Province? Never! Thái Nguyên is always a part of Vietnam that I won't have doubt at all.

Đông Kinh (东京) is the ancient name of Hanoi. Meanwhile 东京 is also the ancient name of China's Kaifeng (in Henan Province); 东京 is still the name of Japan's capital city. Does it mean Đông Kinh/Hanoi belongs to China or Japan? Or Kaifeng, Tokyo belongs to Vietnam?


the letter from is from Phạm Văn Đồng, one of the top leaders of VCP, who is still the ruling party of Vietnam today.

Jiaozhi sea is only one in this sea area in south east Asia.

Problem here is that the letter of PM Pham Van Dong didn't said about Paracel and Spratly.

What do you think about that. Mr. Lee Deng Hui, President of Taiwan said that Senkaku is Japan's Island ?

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/aug/6/inside-china-lee-teng-hui-taiwans-former-president/

 

[GS Zhou]

What do you think about that. Mr. Lee Deng Hui, President of Taiwan said that Senkaku is Japan's Island ?

So what? That's Lee's personal opinion, part of his right of freedom of speech. I have no interest to comment.

 

[cochine]

So what? That's Lee's personal opinion, part of his right of freedom of speech. I have no interest to comment.

Letter of PM Phạm Văn Đồng didn't mentioned the name of Spratly ánd Paracel in his statement. In the time 1958, this Island belong to South Vietnam State.

Pls don't twisted the matter here.

China map Atlas printed in Mainland China stated that Senkaku island in China's PRC map, under leading of China Communist Party.

 

[The Eagle]

Members are advised to continue your discussion/debate without personal attacks or name calling etc.

Thanks

 

[The Eagle]

Thanks

Every member is at liberty to continue the discussion until & unless it is not in violation of Forum Rules. Also, as always advised, report such offensive posts without quoting/engaging back so Mods will handle the same.

 

[samsara]

Stop lying and fabrication, kid. Paracel and Spratly Islands does belong to Vietnam long time ago in the past, in time of Le Dynasty Vietnam. This islands is under controle of Nguyen Warlord in Vietnam from 1600s, long before invasion of France Colonials.

Vietnam had regained independence with help of Soviet Union and Socialist Countries, not only from help of China. China was betrayal in cold war and allied with USA from 1972...

The letter you posted did not mentioned about Paracel and Spratly, after 1954 this Islands belong to South Vietnam. North Vietnam and China signed in to Geneva Accord, Chinese has to know about this aggreement. It said about 12 mile coastline of Mainland China only. North Vietnam didn't have right to say about sovereignty of South Vietnam.

View attachment 382924

South and North Vietnam State after 1954, following to Geneva Accord. North Vietnam and China had signed on this aggreement.

North Korea can not say that Dokdo Island does belong to Japan, because Dokdo Island is under sovereignty of South Korea.

That's a very wrong comparison. North Vietnam was the winner of the civil war between the South and North Vietnam, therefore it's North Vietnam that represents the united Vietnam at the end of the civil war, the ruling party is also the same. The South Vietnam was buried into the graveyard already. The fact that the Vietnam is playing with words to deny the letter of its late top and long serving leader, Pham Van Dong, showing the cunning characteristics and lack of trustworthiness of its political and leadership class. When the officially written words of a nation's leader is no longer trustworthy then the whole nation lost its honor... and should be treated as such accordingly!

The aggressor is playing out as victim today. Luckily China is way much bigger and stronger; otherwise it's easily to imagine Vietnam may storm China as it did against its smaller and weaker neighbor, Cambodia (Khmer). And fortunately it is not the China that relies its fresh water needs (sources of rivers) on Vietnam but the reverse is true; otherwise the Chinese people may have to resort to sea waters for living (the costly desalination).

North Korea - South Korea -- they are indeed two separated entities, two sovereign states! It's completely irrelevant. [Unless you think that the South Vietnam still exists.]

Btw, please do not kid others. It doesn't make your argument more sound by belittling others. Fortunately the mod already noticed this.

 

[cochine]

That's a very wrong comparison. North Vietnam was the winner of the civil war between the South and North Vietnam, therefore it's North Vietnam that represents the united Vietnam at the end of the civil war, the ruling party is also the same. The South Vietnam was buried into the graveyard already. The fact that the Vietnam is playing with words to deny the letter of its late top and long serving leader, Pham Van Dong, showing the cunning characteristics and lack of trustworthiness of its political and leadership class. When the officially written words of a nation's leader is no longer trustworthy then the whole nation lost its honor... and should be treated as such accordingly!

The aggressor is playing out as victim today. Luckily China is way much bigger and stronger; otherwise it's easily to imagine Vietnam may storm China as it did against its smaller and weaker neighbor, Cambodia (Khmer). And fortunately it is not the China that relies its fresh water needs (sources of rivers) on Vietnam but the reverse is true; otherwise the Chinese people may have to resort to sea waters for living (the costly desalination).

North Korea - South Korea -- they are indeed two separated entities, two sovereign states! It's completely irrelevant. [Unless you think that the South Vietnam still exists.]

Btw, please do not kid others. It doesn't make your argument more sound by belittling others. Fortunately the mod already noticed this.

stop lying more, bro. Check again the letter 1958 of PM of North Vietnam (Vietnam Democratic Republic). It did not mentioned about Spratly and Paracel Islands of South Vietnam (Republic Vietnam) in the time 1958, it said about coast line 12 mile related to North VN and China only.

Its nature of the letter, no more.

 

[terranMarine]

China's southern island province of Hainan will run regular cruises to the Nansha Islands in the South China Seaby 2020, according to a local government paper on tourism.

Hainan will improve the travel experience with new routes and ships, improve infrastructure and provide better travel packages.

Sansha City, on Yongxing, one of the Xisha Islands, was founded in July 2012. The city sees tourism as its main economic engine and administers three island groups -- the Xisha, Zhongsha and Nansha -- along with surrounding waters.

The first cruise to the Xisha Islands was in 2013, with two cruise since making the trip more than 100 times, carrying over 20,000 tourists.

Hainan is upgrading its ports and has plans for a pan-South China Sea cruise line covering countries along the Maritime Silk Road.

http://en.people.cn/n3/2017/0311/c90000-9188854.html

 

[shjliu]

China should make islands on the Arabian and Indian ocean as well to protect its interests in the region

would love a squadron of j20 bombers on a island near indian shores

why?

 

[cochine]

Navy’s latest frigate to be deployed for annual exhibit in Malaysia

March 11, 2017 PNA Nation 0

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In line with efforts to foster closer defense ties with its Southeast Asian neighbors, the Philippine Navy (PN) will deploy its newly acquired Gregorio del Pilar-class frigate BRP Andres Bonifacio (FF-17), to the Langkawi International Maritime and Aerospace Exhibition (LIMA 2017) in Malaysia.

LIMA, one of the most influential exhibitions in Asia, is a dedicated maritime and aerospace exhibition for defense, civil and commercial aviation, shipbuilding and ship repair. The event will start on March 21 and end on the 25th, Navy spokesperson Lued Lincuna said in a message to the Philippine News Agency (PNA) Saturday.

In line with this, he said the Navy will have a send-off ceremony for BRP Andres Bonifacio and the 206 naval personnel on board at Pier 13, Manila South Harbor on Tuesday. Lincuna said Navy flag-officer-in-command Vice Adm. Ronald Joseph Mercado will lead the ceremony.

Aside from participating in LIMA 2017, the Filipino warship and her crew will conduct port visits to Lumut and Port Klang, Malaysia.

Gregorio del Pilar-class frigates were formerly used by the US Coast Guard as Hamilton class high endurance cutters.

The BRP Andres Bonifacio was formally welcomed into the Philippine fleet last December 9. The ship is armed with a 76-mm. Oto Melara automatic cannon, like her sister ships, BRP Ramon Alcaraz (FF-16) and BRP Gregorio Del Pilar.
http://www.update.ph/2017/03/navys-...deployed-for-annual-exhibit-in-malaysia/15627

 

[samsara]

China should make islands on the Arabian and Indian ocean as well to protect its interests in the region

would love a squadron of j20 bombers on a island near indian shores

Just do not see such relevance at all. China is not an imperialistic nation, there is no such necessity to build the many costly permanent military outposts overseas to project such military forces, after all China is an industrial and trading nation relying on manufacturing and commercial relationships. The service availability to cater the PLA Navy fleet at Djibouti and Pakistan are adequate to serve China's interests to protect its maritime trade through the Arabian Sea and Indian Ocean IMO.

What China needs to do is building up more aircraft carrier fleets, which she's doing right now. See this latest post in other thread about aircraft carrier.

 

[cochine]

Gac Ma soldiers’ memorial site to open in March

China attacked on Vietnam's sea at South Johson Reef 14 Marc 1988. 64 VPA logistic men were killed by Chinese.

Last update: 14:38 | 19/01/2017
http://m.english.vietnamnet.vn/fms/...soldiers--memorial-site-to-open-in-march.html

The first-phase construction of a memorial site dedicated to 64 navy soldiers who laid down their lives while protecting Gac Ma island in Vietnam’s Truong Sa (Spratly) archipelago on March 14, 1988, is scheduled for completion in March.

The main statue at the Gac Ma memorial site



On January 18, a delegation from the Vietnam General Confederation of Labour (VGCL) visited the construction site to examine the work progress and the major statue.

The statue depicts the image of the soldiers holding each other’s hands to form a circle that symbolises their immortal fight for the country’s sovereignty.

The examiners said the statue meets the set criteria in terms of art and materials, but need a few changes to make it more soulful.

The Gac Ma memorial site spans on an area of 2.5 hectares with construction beginning in March 2015. The building cost is sourced from donations by trade unions and employees nationwide to the VGCL’s “Love for Hoang Sa-Truong Sa” programme initiated in March 2014.

VNA

 

[Get Ya Wig Split]

China begins new work on disputed South China Sea island

China has started fresh construction work in the disputed South China Sea, new satellite images show, a sign that Beijing is continuing to strengthen its military reach across the vital trade waterway.

Regional military attaches and experts believe the work shows China's determination to build up its network of reefs and islets, even if it is seeking to avoid a fresh confrontation with the new administration of U.S. President Donald Trump.

An image of North Island in the Paracels group taken on March 6 shows recent work including land clearing and possible preparation for a harbor to support what experts believe may be eventual military installations. Initial work was damaged in a typhoon last year.

The pictures, provided by private satellite firm Planet Labs, follow reports in January showing work undertaken on nearby Tree Island and other features in the Paracels, which are also claimed by Vietnam and Taiwan.

Diplomats briefed on latest Western intelligence assessments say Beijing is pursuing efforts to dominate its maritime 'backyard', even if it tweaks the timing of moves to avoid being overtly provocative.

"The Paracels are going to be vital to any future Chinese attempt to dominate the South China Sea," said Carl Thayer, a South China Sea expert at Australia's Defence Force Academy.

"We can see they are committed to militarization, whatever the official rhetoric tells us, even if they are going to do it bit by bit."

Uncertainties over Trump

The more widely disputed Spratlys archipelago to the south are higher profile but the Paracels are key to China's presence in the South China Sea,

China has in recent years temporarily based surface-to-air missile launchers and crack jet fighters at long established bases on Woody Island on the Paracels, helping protect its nuclear submarine facilities on Hainan Island.

North Island is part of an arc of reefs that are expected to form a protective screen for Woody, which includes civilian facilities and a listening post.

Zhang Baohui, a mainland security expert at Hong Kong's Lingnan University, said he believed China was pursuing long-held goals of strengthening its facilities in the Paracels, and had calculated the Trump administration would not over-react given other pressing priorities.

"There's also uncertainty with this young Trump administration, but this is very important work to the Chinese--the Paracels are vital to defending Hainan, which is in turn important to China's nuclear deterrent," he said.

"The calculation here is that it is really only Vietnam that will be rattled by this."

The Vietnamese Foreign Ministry did not immediately respond to requests for comment.

China's Defence Ministry said it was "not familiar" with any work at North Island.

"What needs to be stressed is that the Xisha Islands are China's inherent territory," it said, using the Chinese name for the Paracels. China fully occupied the Paracels in 1974 after forcing the navy of the-then South Vietnam off its holdings.

News of fresh Chinese activity comes as Rex Tillerson prepares for his first visit to the region as U.S. Secretary of State later this week. Tillerson sparked alarm in Beijing when he said in January China should not be allowed access to islands it has built in the South China Sea.

A U.S. official, speaking on the condition of anonymity, was unable to confirm new construction work on North Island but said it would not be surprising.

"It would be in line with what they have been doing, why else would they clearing land on the islands but for militarization," the official said. "There is no other reason to have a presence there."

Diplomatic sources in Beijing say China is not looking for confrontation with the United States over the South China Sea, pointing to China's low-key reaction to last month's patrol of a U.S. aircraft carrier strike group in the waters there.

China has recently sought to portray itself as being conciliatory over the disputed waterway, saying it and Southeast Asian nations are committed to a peaceful resolution.

Last week, Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi said a draft code of conduct for behavior in the South China Sea had now been completed and that tensions had "distinctly dropped".

Reuters/CNBC