South China Sea Forum

[dichoi]

Exactly, you should tell that to Vietnam and Philippines,

PRC controls the largest of all NATURAL formed island in Parcel, Yong Xing Island
Woody Island, also known as Yongxing Island (simplified Chinese: 永兴岛; traditional Chinese:永興島; pinyin: Yǒngxīng Dǎo; literally: "Eternal Prosperity Island") and Phu Lam Island(Vietnamese: Đảo Phú Lâm), is the largest of the Paracel Islands in the South China Sea.

ROC controls the largest of all NATURAL formed island in Spratly, TaiPing Island
Taiping Island, also known as Itu Aba Island and by various other names, is the largest of the naturally occurring[1]Spratly Islands in the South China Sea

Woody Island (South China Sea) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Taiping Island - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Paracel Islands belong to Vietnam from long time ago in the past. Occupation with force of China is illegal.

The map of Quang Nam Prefecture in the Toan tap Thien Nam tu chi lo do thu. The complete set of road maps by Do Ba in the Chinh Hoa Dynasty (1680-1705), in the reign of Le. The notes on the map recorded Bai Cat Vang (Yellow Sand Beach) in Chu Nom in the native language, off the Quang Ngai Prefecture's shore

 

[sicsheep]

The treaty applies to all signatory, naturally.

Fiery cross reef .... ? This artificial island is now larger than any of the naturally formed islands in the Spratleys. I'm sure I can find a few more.

Woody Island > sovereignty disputed.

See several other thread which recently discussed this (not going over that again)

Fiery Cross reef is a reef, no matter how large it is, There is no international law regarding controlling reef size as I recall, Japan, Vietnam have all done reclamation work.

why do we need to draw EEZ or territorial water from it when we can do it from our the natural formed Islands?

if we dispute the sovereignty the Vietnam, as we can show it was once controlled by China, does that mean they have to stop building anywhere in Vietnam? besides as I said before Vietnam is also doing reclamation just on a much lesser scale.

why don't you tell the British to withdraw garrison on the Falklands, or Russian to withdraw from Kuril ....

 

[xunzi]

Fiery Cross Reef is not an island, nor a fringe reef, but a group of three reefs. In 2014, China commenced reclamation activity in the area, and it has been converted into an artificial islandof about 230ha
Fiery Cross Reef - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

UNCLOS:

Article 5 Normal baseline
Except where otherwise provided in this Convention, the normal baseline for measuring the breadth of the territorial sea is the low-water line along the coast as marked on large-scale charts officially recognized by the coastal State.

Article 6 Reefs
In the case of islands situated on atolls or of islands having fringing reefs, the baseline for measuring the breadth of the territorial sea is the seaward low-water line of the reef, as shown by the appropriate symbol on charts officially recognized by the coastal State.

Article 13
Low-tide elevations
1. A low-tide elevation is a naturally formed area of land which is surrounded by and above water at low tide but submerged at high tide. Where a low-tide elevation is situated wholly or partly at a distance not exceeding the breadth of the territorial sea from the mainland or an island, the low-water line on that elevation may be used as the baseline for measuring the breadth of the territorial sea.
2. Where a low-tide elevation is wholly situated at a distance exceeding the breadth of the territorial sea from the mainland or an island, it has no territorial sea of its own.

Article 121
Regime of islands
1. An island is a naturally formed area of land, surrounded by water, which is above water at high tide.
2. Except as provided for in paragraph 3, the territorial sea, the contiguous zone, the exclusive economic zone and the continental shelf of an island are determined in accordance with the provisions of this Convention
applicable to other land territory.
3. Rocks which cannot sustain human habitation or economic life of their own shall have no exclusive economic zone or continental shelf.

Keep reading UNCLOS and show everybody where it said a country can't build on low-tide elevation feature.

Who says I don't or would hold other nations to the same standard? Point out wherre I've suggested or stated UNCLOS doesn't also apply to other nations. Meanwhile, China is the only contry carrying out substantional militarization at high tempo and also happens to be the topic of discussion in this thread.

I'm not interest in your opinion on SCS. I'm speaking from official position of your govt which have a double standard on each claimants. So your personal objection to our building up artifical island is we do too fast? Does that mean if we build slowly like other claimants, then it is okay?

I am from The Netherlands. We don't have a defence relation with South Korea or Japan. I'm quite sure China has no concerns about the Netherlands. Let's make that clear, shall we?

You have used the American flag before, so I take your position of the USA. It is that simple. I do not care about Netherlands, so you got that right.

Well, be specific then which you are talking about. AFAIK There are 37 artifical islands listed here. None of these are anywhere near non-US territory. Let alone near the coast of Latin America. All of these are inside the existing US territorial waters 12nmi zone. They are little structures used for housing (compared Dubai) or industry (compare Port of Rotterdam - Maasvlakte).
Category:Artificial islands of the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It doesn't matter. Artificial island is not new. International law allows artificial islands to be built if you owned those feature. We own it and we can build whatever we want on it. It's simple, really!. LOL

 

[dichoi]

.
Vietnam Says China’s Flights to South China Sea a Threat to Air Safety
Vietnam authorities claim 46 instances of Chinese planes flying unannounced through Vietnam’s area of responsibility in first week of January
By
VU TRONG KHANH
Jan. 9, 2016 5:06 a.m. ET

HANOI—Vietnam’s civil aviation regulators have accused China of jeopardizing regional air safety by flying aircraft to a disputed reef in the South China Sea.

The Civil Aviation Authority of Vietnam said unannounced flights “threaten the safety of all flights in the region”, according to reports published in state-run media Saturday. It said it had filed a complaint with the United Nations’ International Civil Aviation Organization, or ICAO, and sent a protest letter to China’s government.

“ICAO is responsible for supervising all civil aviation activities in the world, and we expect that it will issue warnings to China after it finds out about its violations,” Vietnam’s civil aviation director Lai Xuan Thanhsubsequently said in a telephone interview.

China’s foreign ministry didn’t immediately respond to a request for comment.

Beijing on Wednesday said it had landed planes on a newly-built airstrip on an island at Fiery Cross Reef, part of the Spratly islands chain claimed by Vietnam and China, which also claims nearly the entire South China Sea as its territorial waters.

Vietnam, though, has been mandated by ICAO to supervise international air traffic through a large portion of the South China Sea known as the Ho Chi Minh City Flight Information Region, specifically tracking flights and providing alerts when needed. Aviation authorities were reported in state media as saying they had recorded 46 instances of Chinese planes flying without warning through Vietnam’s area of responsibility in the first week of January, including the test flights to Fiery Cross Reef.

Mr. Thanh said Chinese planes flew onto the flight paths of several international commercial flights, though none had to change their routes as a result.

China’s flights to Fiery Cross Reef mark a further escalation in the race among various claimants to the South China Sea to develop their presence on atolls and reefs in the area. Vietnam, the Philippines and Taiwan also occupy some geographical features there. In some instances, these include small garrisons and limited military facilities.

In recent years, China has moved to expand and upgrade its own outposts in the area, however, upsetting the status quo.

Vietnam has complained that the recent test flights to Fiery Cross Reef violate its territorial rights, while this week Philippine Foreign Secretary Albert del Rosario said China is on track to set up an air defense identification zone in the South China Sea that could limit free navigation of flights in the region. Such a move would also challenge Vietnam’s supervisory role in parts of the South China Sea.

The U.S. has also criticized Beijing’s flights to Fiery Cross Reef, with a Defense Department spokeswoman recently saying the test flights “are inconsistent with the region’s commitments to exercise restraint from actions that could complicate or escalate disputes.”

 

[Penguin]

Keep reading UNCLOS and show everybody where it said a country can't build on low-tide elevation feature.

article 60 > artificial islands yield you no territorial zone or more.

I'm not interest in your opinion on SCS. I'm speaking from official position of your govt which have a double standard on each claimants. So your personal objection to our building up artifical island is we do too fast? Does that mean if we build slowly like other claimants, then it is okay?

You haven't even shown you know the official position of MY government. I challenge you to document it (bet you cant)

[/quote]You have used the American flag before, so I take your position of the USA. It is that simple. I do not care about Netherlands, so you got that right.[/quote]
Oh really? Like, when/where. I'm probably the longest on this forum with no flags. More BS.

It doesn't matter. Artificial island is not new. International law allows artificial islands to be built if you owned those feature. We own it and we can build whatever we want on it. It's simple, really!. LOL

Clearly, you are still not getting it. It is not about whether you can/are allowed to build artificial islands. It is about whether they are recognized as having a territorial zone, eez etc, and count towards establishing where Chinas EEZ is. And they DON'T.

 

[cnleio]

Islands in SCS

 

[Rechoice]

Vietnamese old mother prayed for her son and his comrades who were killed by Chinese in South Johnson Reef in 1988, after 27 year.

There is Paracel and Spratly, sea territory of Vietnam motherland for ever. Chinese aggressor can't swalow our Islands.

64 đôi đũa, 64 cái bát trong bữa giỗ Gạc Ma

 

[Oldman1]

Japan turned out to be just fine, maybe history will repeat, except this time, the other side has nukes too.

Indeed! And the other side has nukes as well.

 

[JSCh]

China's southernmost city to launch civilian flights
By Liang Jun (People's Daily Online) 08:55, March 08, 2016

​

The runway at the Yongxing airport.​

Yongxing Airport in Sansha, China's southernmost island city administered by Hainan province, is expected to open to passenger planes within this year, and the city will gradually open more to tourists, said Xiao Jie, the mayor of the city and NPC deputy on March 5.

Tourism is a key sector in Sansha, and civil aircraft are currently conducting test flights at Yongxing Airport, Xiao Jie told reporters at the ongoing Two Sessions meetings on March 5. The airport is expected to launch civilian flights before the end of this year.

Because the city’s tourism infrastructure and other tourism-related facilities lag somewhat behind, the full development of tourism in Sansha will need some time.

The city is also exploring an inter-island cruise, and considering the possibility of increasing waterways and cruise ships, according to Xiao.

Officially established in June 2012, Hainan's Sansha is China's youngest city that administers to vast island groups and their surrounding waters in the South China Sea.

 

[adnan12345]

the u.s is encouraging a peaceful; resolution of competing maritime claims in the south china sea a goal that is definitely not helped by the militarization of facilities in that region , tuesday in testimony before the senate foreign relations committee. with countries trading barbs, expectations for the talks are low.

china argues its expansion in the south china sea is the natural behavior of a regional power while the us, the major military presence in asia since the end world war 2 , says china is using its economic and military clout to dominate smaller neighbors.

washington should be well aware that china will not compromise on territorial integrity and washington should not underestimate china's resolve in this respect, the official xinhua news agency said in a commentary ahead of wang's visit.


chinese foreign minister wang yi meets us secretary of state john kerry for talks tuesday as each country accuses the other of escalating military tensions in the western pacific. the sit down in washington will be the first since china parked missiles on woody in the disputed south sea , and since the us announced it would hold talks about deploying a missile defense system in south korea as a deterrent to north korea.

the us has said china under president xi jinping is militarizing the south china sea by building artificial islands and placing artillery , radar and other weapons there , while china says the us is doing the same with its freedom of navigation voyages , where naval vessels pass within territorial zones china asserts around reclaimed reefs. china claims more than 8- percent of the waters
contesting territory with countries including vietnam and the philippines.

 

[dichoi]

Vietnam to build Paracel monument on Ly Son Island

VietNamNet Bridge – The Vietnam General Confederation of Labor is working with Quang Ngai Province over a project to build a monument on Ly Son Island off the central province’s coast to pay tribute to Vietnamese people who had sacrificed their lives to protect Hoang Sa (Paracel) archipelago.

.

Ly Son Island – Photo: SGGP

Ngo Minh Dong, deputy office manager of the Vietnam General Confederation of Labor, said the confederation is raising money from trade unions and workers across the country to finance the project.

The goal of the project is “to pay respect and express gratitude to the Vietnamese people who were killed while trying to protect the country’s sovereignty over Hoang Sa; contribute to fostering national pride, solidarity and patriotism among the Vietnamese; and create a place for Vietnamese at home and abroad to commemorate and learn about the history of fighting to protect the country,” he said.

The confederation and Quang Ngai authorities have also launched a Hoang Sa monument design contest to choose the best design in terms of historical, educational and aesthetic values.

The project is planned to cover around 1.5-2 hectares.

Organizations and individuals at home and abroad can join the contest and should register their interest at the Vietnam General Confederation of Labor, 82 Tran Hung Dao Street, Hanoi, or at its representative office in HCMC at 85 Cach Mang Thang Tam Street.

The organizer will receive entries from August 1 to October 31. After the best design is chosen, the confederation would invite contestants to visit Ly Son Island.

Currently, the confederation is working on a project to build Gac Ma monument on 2.5 hectares in Cam Ranh City, Khanh Hoa Province, also on the central coast. The project costs around VND100 billion (US$4,583), which is sourced from trade unions and workers nationwide, as well as local and foreign organizations and individuals.

The design for Gac Ma monument was also chosen in a contest held by the confederation. This monument commemorates 64 unarmed Vietnamese troops who were killed by the Chinese while they were protecting Gac Ma (Johnson South Reef) in Vietnam’s Truong Sa (Spratly) islands.

SGT

 

[rott]

.
Vietnam Says China’s Flights to South China Sea a Threat to Air Safety
Vietnam authorities claim 46 instances of Chinese planes flying unannounced through Vietnam’s area of responsibility in first week of January
By
VU TRONG KHANH
Jan. 9, 2016 5:06 a.m. ET

HANOI—Vietnam’s civil aviation regulators have accused China of jeopardizing regional air safety by flying aircraft to a disputed reef in the South China Sea.

The Civil Aviation Authority of Vietnam said unannounced flights “threaten the safety of all flights in the region”, according to reports published in state-run media Saturday. It said it had filed a complaint with the United Nations’ International Civil Aviation Organization, or ICAO, and sent a protest letter to China’s government.

“ICAO is responsible for supervising all civil aviation activities in the world, and we expect that it will issue warnings to China after it finds out about its violations,” Vietnam’s civil aviation director Lai Xuan Thanhsubsequently said in a telephone interview.

China’s foreign ministry didn’t immediately respond to a request for comment.

Beijing on Wednesday said it had landed planes on a newly-built airstrip on an island at Fiery Cross Reef, part of the Spratly islands chain claimed by Vietnam and China, which also claims nearly the entire South China Sea as its territorial waters.

Vietnam, though, has been mandated by ICAO to supervise international air traffic through a large portion of the South China Sea known as the Ho Chi Minh City Flight Information Region, specifically tracking flights and providing alerts when needed. Aviation authorities were reported in state media as saying they had recorded 46 instances of Chinese planes flying without warning through Vietnam’s area of responsibility in the first week of January, including the test flights to Fiery Cross Reef.

Mr. Thanh said Chinese planes flew onto the flight paths of several international commercial flights, though none had to change their routes as a result.

China’s flights to Fiery Cross Reef mark a further escalation in the race among various claimants to the South China Sea to develop their presence on atolls and reefs in the area. Vietnam, the Philippines and Taiwan also occupy some geographical features there. In some instances, these include small garrisons and limited military facilities.

In recent years, China has moved to expand and upgrade its own outposts in the area, however, upsetting the status quo.

Vietnam has complained that the recent test flights to Fiery Cross Reef violate its territorial rights, while this week Philippine Foreign Secretary Albert del Rosario said China is on track to set up an air defense identification zone in the South China Sea that could limit free navigation of flights in the region. Such a move would also challenge Vietnam’s supervisory role in parts of the South China Sea.

The U.S. has also criticized Beijing’s flights to Fiery Cross Reef, with a Defense Department spokeswoman recently saying the test flights “are inconsistent with the region’s commitments to exercise restraint from actions that could complicate or escalate disputes.”

Use burnol.

List as many countries as you can，if it can make you feel better。
I suggest you copy country names from here

 

[dichoi]

‘Chinese armed vessels have harassed Vietnamese ships’

Vietnam protesting China’s continued use of force against Vietnamese boats and vessels
November 29, 2015

Vietnam’s Foreign Ministry Spokesman Le Hai Binh

HA NOi (VNS) — Viet Nam strongly objects to the use of or threat to use force against its boats and vessels, Foreign Ministry Spokesman Le Hai Binh said yesterday.

The spokesman made the statement in response to the press’s question about Viet Nam’s reaction to reports that some Chinese coast guard and military surrounded and threatened to use force against the ship Hai Dang 05 of Viet Nam.

Domestic relevant agencies are verifying the location where the incident took place and several related issues in order to take appropriate diplomatic measures, he added.

The spokesman underlined Viet Nam’s consistent stance of resolutely protesting against all actions that use or threaten to use force against Vietnamese boats and vessels.

“These actions infringe international law, run counter to the spirit and wording of the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the East Sea (DOC), seriously menace peace and stability in the region, and are completely unacceptable and unjustifiable,” Binh said. — VNS

 

[MacanJawa]

who will fire bullet first if conflict broke?

 

[Solomon2]

The spokesman made the statement in response to the press’s question about Viet Nam’s reaction to reports that some Chinese coast guard and military surrounded and threatened to use force against the ship Hai Dang 05 of Viet Nam.

I cannot be the first to make the observation that China is treating the SCS as a giant go board, with ships and installations as playing pieces.