South China Sea Forum

[longyi]

^^^ What a man! I think the mafia should had a "wise guy" like you.

 

[jhungary]

Isn't it obvious? One of the most important reason China is sticking to the 9-*** line claim is because Vietnam is claiming almost the same and occupies most of the rocks in the area. This action shows Vietnam's motive on SCS is not benign. These sea lanes are, unarguably, the most important sea routes for Chinese merchant fleets and there's no way China's going to allow Vietnam, oe any country for that matter, to have hegemony by building military assets over this area. The claim will allow China options to take actions if she feels anyone is taking over SCS.

If ASEAN countries want peace in these water, in which is coincide with China's aim, they must deal with one of their ambitious member first. If Vietnam gives up on her SCS claim I'm sure China will follow suit. For China those oil under the seabed is not as important as having good relationships with ASEAN. Frankly I think most of them know what the situation is but no one wants to be the bad guy to talk with the Viets.

To my best knowledge. No.

Depend on which Vietnamese told you what their claim to be. The official Vietnam claim is NOT the whole SCS like the Chinese did.

Vietnam claim the part of SCS as follow
-Spratly Islands (Collective country)
-Paracel Islands (mainly China and Vietnam)
-Gulf of Thailand (Part of South West SCS)

To which Vietnam only contested West/North West and South West of SCS along their coastline via their EEZ.

Chinese 9 dotted line have claim to all SCS except the Singaporean Strait and Gulf of Thailand....(That's all SCS except the South West part)

Two claim are different. I don't know how you can get the Vietnamese Claim to compare to the Chinese 9 dotted line claim. This is the first thing you need to realise.

Second thing is, there are no one wanted war over SCS, vietnam included. If you say ASEAN should face Chinese Pressure and order its member to back down their claim and admitted the Chinese 9 dotted claim is legimate. How is it differnet than blackmail??

Don't want war is one thing, relent and give in to blackmail is another. The aim of ASEAN is to put these dispute into international arbitration. However what China did now is as if they do not want the easy way out. They wanted their claim but they don't want to get touched by the international bodies. This is kind of dogy if you asked me. Seems to me, China is the only country wanted to fight it out, not the other way around.

 

[ViXuyen]

Vietnam's claims are the Paracel Island (robbed at gun point by China in 1974) and the Spratly Island chain. Vietnam's claims to these two island chains are non-negotiable whether the country was a democratic in 1974 or communist now. However, Vietnam does not claim the international sea lane betwen Viet Nam's coast and the Spratly.

 

[JSCh]

Once ratified, a treaty/convention/agreement will be legally binding regardless of what individual country intrepret. A country may choose to ignore the treaty, but with consequences that might tarnish its commitment and honour.

The fact that the UNCLOS allow an exception declaration when countries sign/rectify the UNCLOS means that countries are allowed to specify their obligation when entering a treaty/convention/agreement. In any agreement when party is allow to specify their commitment then they are only obliged to that commitment. How you interpret their commitment/non-commitment is your own political opinion.

You also need to differentiate between valid dispute arising from overlap EEZ permissible under UNCLOS with that dispute of arbitrary claim of non complaiant with UNCLOS (China's U-shaped claim). The former is legally compliant with UNCLOS, while the later isn't.

As far as i know, most signatory parties of UNCLOS have been so far complied with UNCLOS in laying their EEZ claim. Dispute arises where two countries EEZ overlap with each other, but both claim are stil valid under UNCLOS. The Malaysian, philippines, and Bruneian claims are valid under UNCLOS, although the claims overlap each other. In fact they are no known countries that try to claim EEZ beyond what is permissible under UNCLOS with the exception of China's and Vietnam's claim. Even US has been so far does not claim beyond UNCLOS 200 nm EEZ limit despite its non ratifying status.

FYI, Philippines claim the "Kalayaan island groups"(KIG),

UNCLOS define EEZ, therefore of course claim of EEZ has to be based on UNCLOS. But there is not law that say claim has to be based on EEZ.

Seeveral countries have been successful in resolving EEZ dispute under UNCLOS. Examples are: India/Bangladesh/Myanmar dispute over Bay of Bengal, Vietnam/Indonesia EEZ dispute over north Natuna Sea, Indonesia/Australia EEZ boundaries, Norway/Russia Svalbard dispute. I dont think with this ample examples could you say that UNCLOS is not legally binding.

UNCLOS is legally binding when all claimant/parties agree to be subjected by it, same as territory claim by ICJ.
and also
Exclusive economic zone - Disputes - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[peaceful]

Vietnam's claims are the Paracel Island (robbed at gun point by China in 1974) and the Spratly Island chain. Vietnam's claims to these two island chains are non-negotiable whether the country was a democratic in 1974 or communist now. However, Vietnam does not claim the international sea lane betwen Viet Nam's coast and the Spratly.

vietnam can of course claim it, it will stay as a claim.

we spent over $100 billion USD on defense every single year, your capital is 200km away from the Chinese border, your economy and armed forces are just a joke compared to ours. think about this first.

 

[peaceful]

Don't want war is one thing, relent and give in to blackmail is another. The aim of ASEAN is to put these dispute into international arbitration. However what China did now is as if they do not want the easy way out. They wanted their claim but they don't want to get touched by the international bodies. This is kind of dogy if you asked me. Seems to me, China is the only country wanted to fight it out, not the other way around.

How about shut up the big mouth and read the UNCLOS first?

International arbitration can't be forced onto any country, this is written clearly into the UNCLOS. The so called easy way out is to let ASEAN nations to withdraw their illegal claims. We are playing nice to them, this won't always be the case in the future. Claiming the SCS is the blackmail here.

The whole issue is clear: withdraw the claims or face our navy. That is bloody simple.

 

[Viet]

How about shut up the big mouth and read the UNCLOS first?

International arbitration can't be forced onto any country, this is written clearly into the UNCLOS. The so called easy way out is to let ASEAN nations to withdraw their illegal claims. We are playing nice to them, this won't always be the case in the future. Claiming the SCS is the blackmail here.

The whole issue is clear: withdraw the claims or face our navy. That is bloody simple.

No problem, bring your navy. We need some test targets for our subs.

As for China´s crybabies, we continue to exploit oil/gas within our EEZ. Don´t care of f... 9-dash!

The first 90m water-depth jack-up drilling rig and the Moc Tinh oil rig at the Vung Tau Petroleum Port

 

[ViXuyen]

vietnam can of course claim it, it will stay as a claim.

we spent over $100 billion USD on defense every single year, your capital is 200km away from the Chinese border, your economy and armed forces are just a joke compared to ours. think about this first.

How pathetic for you to spend $100 billion USD a year when we only spend $1 billion USD/year but you can't even control the Spratley? What a joke! china can only sit aside and watch Viet Nam control the Spratley with impunity. We control most of the big islands and continue to build more structure on them, we patrol this area at will, we shoot at your fishermen whenever we like, we ram your marine police ship for sports, our tourists come and go to these islands whenever they wish. Not yet, we send several thousand fishing boats to fish in the Paracel Island to keep your maritime patrol units run wild. We do all of these when our Navy does not have a submarine fleet yet. Once we have our submarine fleet in a couple of years, china will look much weaker to us than it is NOW.

 

[Soryu]

vietnam can of course claim it, it will stay as a claim.

we spent over $100 billion USD on defense every single year, your capital is 200km away from the Chinese border, your economy and armed forces are just a joke compared to ours. think about this first.

We still explore and take oil in 9-dash-line,... your mighty military is joke, LOL.

Still can't explain why you can't grab Xisha back eh after your many victories eh?

Can you explain Why PRC couldn't take Taiwan back until now!? Is that your military was bullshjt!?

Isn't it obvious? One of the most important reason China is sticking to the 9-*** line claim is because Vietnam is claiming almost the same and occupies most of the rocks in the area. This action shows Vietnam's motive on SCS is not benign. These sea lanes are, unarguably, the most important sea routes for Chinese merchant fleets and there's no way China's going to allow Vietnam, oe any country for that matter, to have hegemony by building military assets over this area. The claim will allow China options to take actions if she feels anyone is taking over SCS.

If ASEAN countries want peace in these water, in which is coincide with China's aim, they must deal with one of their ambitious member first. If Vietnam gives up on her SCS claim I'm sure China will follow suit. For China those oil under the seabed is not as important as having good relationships with ASEAN. Frankly I think most of them know what the situation is but no one wants to be the bad guy to talk with the Viets.

LOL, your "I sure" is bullshjt, you know!?
_ Sometime bring up right and wrong, sometime bring up political, you guys alway messing around with stuff to cover your action as good side.

_ Vietnam never claim all over SCS, Vietnam claim 200nm EEZ and 2 Islands group are Paracel and Spartly because we have many actions and made living from those Islands.

_ Some chinese guys said China claim Islands because they discovered them at first, some said they claim because they saw in map and think Islands were Terra nullius condition, and now you bring up this bullshjt ...

 

[longyi]

^^^ Look who's BSing. China wasn't the one who originally claim the 9 *** line but she, might as well, continues the claim as a preemptive measure against certain mogemonist who has the whole SCS on it sight. China will never allow any one country who controls her most important sea route near her border, disregard their legitimacy of their claims. Mark my word.

 

[Fsjal]

No problem, bring your navy. We need some test targets for our subs.

As for China´s crybabies, we continue to exploit oil/gas within our EEZ. Don´t care of f... 9-dash!

The first 90m water-depth jack-up drilling rig and the Moc Tinh oil rig at the Vung Tau Petroleum Port

Taiwanese submarine: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/85/SS793_Submarines1.jpg

Chinese oil rig: China builds mega deep-sea oil rig - China.org.cn

 

[NiceGuy]

How about shut up the big mouth and read the UNCLOS first?

International arbitration can't be forced onto any country, this is written clearly into the UNCLOS. The so called easy way out is to let ASEAN nations to withdraw their illegal claims. We are playing nice to them, this won't always be the case in the future. Claiming the SCS is the blackmail here.

The whole issue is clear: withdraw the claims or face our navy. That is bloody simple.

How abt joining PLAN, become a crew member of China's cheap warship and fight with us ? We will sink your cheap ship immediately,so u can shut ur mouth up forever.

Of course,you dare not join PLAN and fight wt us, u r coward but big mouth like ur fore father Ah Q.

 

[NiceGuy]

^^^ Look who's BSing. China wasn't the one who originally claim the 9 *** line but she, might as well, continues the claim as a preemptive measure against certain mogemonist who has the whole SCS on it sight. China will never allow any one country who controls her most important sea route near her border, disregard their legitimacy of their claims. Mark my word.

Oki,we VN mark ur word,and then what next ? Wanna learn another 1979 war when China was pushed back by VN militia women and Tienanmen revolt happend after that coz China wasted too much money in fighting wt VN?

 

[jhungary]

How about shut up the big mouth and read the UNCLOS first?

International arbitration can't be forced onto any country, this is written clearly into the UNCLOS. The so called easy way out is to let ASEAN nations to withdraw their illegal claims. We are playing nice to them, this won't always be the case in the future. Claiming the SCS is the blackmail here.

The whole issue is clear: withdraw the claims or face our navy. That is bloody simple.

Dude, before i need to read more on UNCLOS, please read carefully on what i wrote before.....

I SAID UNCLOS IS USELESS TO SOLVE THESE KIND OF DISPUTE.

The rest of the post are meaningless. Not really any point to reply.

Just one thing, when bullet start flying, are you going be the one who stand in the front? Or you are just gonna hide behind your couch and computer like an arm chair general that you are??

You talk the talk, but did you walk the walk?? I wonder

 

[yusheng]

Chinese Marines Show How It Is Done

April 9, 2013: On March 19 a Chinese task force (a destroyer, two frigates, and a Type 071 amphibious ship) left a southern Chinese port for a South China Sea training exercise. This included landing marines and combat vehicles on small islands using hovercraft. This is just the sort of thing China threatens to do if anyone opposes their claims (to all the uninhabited islets and reefs in the South China Sea) and establishes more manned outposts. China is making it clear how they will deal with such “intrusions.” One of these landing exercises took place 80 kilometers off the coast of Malaysia and 1,800 kilometers from mainland China.

Chinese designed Jingsah II class LCACs (Landing Craft Air Cushion or hovercraft) are being used on Chinas Type 071 amphibious ships. These 70 ton hovercraft can carry 15 tons of cargo, personnel, or vehicles. The first Jingsah IIs entered service in the 1980s, but it was two decades before a lot of them appeared. That was done in order to equip the Type 071 ships.

China's third Type 071 class amphibious ship entered service late last year with the South China Sea Fleet. The first one entered service five years ago. The 071s are LPD (landing ship dock) type vessels. Type 071 armament consists of a 76mm gun, four 30mm anti-missile autocannon, and four 18 tube decoy/chaff dispensers (for anti-missile work). Each 071 is believed to cost about $300 million. A fourth 071 is under construction.

These LPDs are 210 meters (689 foot) long, 20,000 ton amphibious ships with a flight deck for up to four helicopters and a well deck in the rear for landing craft. It normally carries four hovercraft in the well and two smaller landing craft suspended on davits. The ship can carry up to 800 troops (500 are more common) and up to 20 armored vehicles. The 071 class ships are similar to the American 25,000 ton San Antonio class or the French 21,500 ton Mistral class. The 071s have the smallest crew (120) compared to 180 in the Mistral and 396 for the San Antonio.