South China Sea Forum

[Đảo Bạch Long Vỹ]

China's Jurisdiction over the South China Sea

"China's Jurisdiction over the South China Sea
UPDATED: July-3-2012 NO. 27 JULY 5, 2012

- China first discovered and named the reefs, islets and the surrounding waters of the Xisha, Zhongsha and Nansha islands, and has exercised sovereignty control continuously over the area.

- In A.D.110, the government of the Han Dynasty (202 B.C.- A.D.220) set up a government agency on Hainan Island, which marks the beginning of central governance over Hainan Island and the islands in the South China Sea. At that time, Chinese people often navigated on the South China Sea and lived and fished around the Xisha Islands and the Nansha Islands.

- In A.D.971, the navy of the Northern Song Dynasty (960-1127) cruised the Xisha Islands. This was the earliest record of China's naval patrol in the area.

- In the Yuan Dynasty (1271-1369), Emperor Kubla Khan sent astronomer Guo Shoujing to conduct astronomical observations in the Zhongsha Islands, which evidenced the government's sovereignty over the area.

- In 1911, the Guangdong Provincial Government of the Republic of China proclaimed that the Xisha Islands were put under the jurisdiction of Hainan's Yaxian County (currently known as Sanya City).

- After the end of the World War II, according to the Postdam Declaration issued in July 1945 and the Cairo Declaration issued in 1947, the Republic of China sent high commissioners to the Xisha Islands from 1946 to 1948 to take over the archipelago. A takeover ceremony was held on the islands, and a monument was put up to assert China's sovereignty. The government also stationed army and set up a service station for fishermen on Taiping Island, the largest of its kind in the Nansha Islands.

- In March 1959, the Central Government of the People's Republic of China set up the administrative office for the Xisha, Nansha and Zhongsha islands, which was governed by Guangdong Province.

- In October 1984, Hainan Administrative Region was set up, which took over the administrative office.

- In April 1988, Hainan Province was set up and the administrative office was put under the province.

- In June 2012, the State Council approved the establishment of Sansha City, which governs the Xisha, Zhongsha and Nansha islands and their surrounding waters. Meanwhile the administrative office for the area was abolished."

[Note: Thank you to Greyboy2 for the newslinks.]

I will conclude your "arguments":
Discovery (but do nothing with sovereignty) -> Fishing (but do nothing with sovereignty) -> Someone passed there (but do nothing with sovereignty) -> Mongolian Occupation (also do nothing with sovereignty) -> 600 years without any sign -> First claim 200 years later than Vietnamese and while Vietnamese is controlling those islands.

You think you would be able to win in international court with those arguments?

 

[Martian2]

I will conclude your "arguments":
Discovery (but do nothing with sovereignty) -> Fishing (but do nothing with sovereignty) -> Someone passed there (but do nothing with sovereignty) -> Mongolian Occupation (also do nothing with sovereignty) -> 600 years without any sign -> First claim 200 years later than Vietnamese and while Vietnamese is controlling those islands.

You think you would be able to win in international court with those arguments?

The battlefield is the only recourse

China doesn't care about biased international courts. For example, look at the current defending world champion Ye Shiwen. She has passed drug tests and the Western media still shamelessly accuse her of doping. The international court is stacked with prejudiced western judges and China will never permit an anti-Chinese international court to intercede.

In the court of public opinion, everyone can see that the South China Sea islands belong to China. Now, China will defend her historical territory through military power (e.g. see Johnson Reef in 1988).

1. China tried talking. Vietnam and the Philippines have disregarded China's historical evidence. Just like Nehru in 1962.

2. China offered a reasonable joint-development deal. Vietnam and the Philippines have flatly rejected China's compromise, which the Japanese accepted for the East China Sea.

3. China will lets its guns and missiles do the talking. Nehru found out the hard way that China will defend its sovereignty. If talking doesn't work, fighting on the battlefield is the only recourse.

 

[Đảo Bạch Long Vỹ]

The battlefield is the only recourse

China doesn't care about biased international courts. For example, look at the current defending world champion Ye Shiwen. She has passed drug tests and the Western media still shamelessly accuses her of doping. The international court is stacked with prejudiced western judges and China will never permit an anti-Chinese international court to intercede.

In the court of public opinion, everyone can see that the South China Sea islands belong to China. Now, China will defend her historical territory through military power (e.g. see Johnson Reef in 1988).

1. China tried talking. Vietnam and the Philippines have disregarded China's historical evidence. Just like Nehru in 1962.

2. China offered a reasonable joint-development deal. Vietnam and the Philippines have flatly rejected China's compromise, which the Japanese accepted for the East China Sea.

3. China will lets its guns and missiles do the talking. Nehru found out the hard way that China will defend its sovereignty. If talking doesn't work, fighting on the battlefield is the only recourse.

Brainwashed propagator is talking about bullying again
It should be:
"In the court of public opinion in China and its vassals, everyone can see that the South China Sea islands belong to China. It's the result of a huge effort from a lot of brainwashed propagators like Martian2, who always provide invisible evidence that we can't even see it"

How many times I have educated you about your invisible historical evidence(s)?

"Your" islands? So just tell me about the base of your buffalo's tongue claim

1) Your argument about "2000-year-old claim" is ridiculous, you said you "discovered" those islands, but in fact the "discovery" has nothing to do with sovereignty. Look at Colombo and his country, Spain.

2) We have a strong base of evidences to prove that we had sovereignty over those islands before 18th-19th century.
http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-...tly-not-chinese-territory-13.html#post3237586
http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-...tly-not-chinese-territory-25.html#post3249921



3) There are many many maps from your gov before 193x which also don't have Paracel and Spartly:
http://www.defence.pk/forums/china-...lippines-if-china-attacks-11.html#post3244021
http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-...tly-not-chinese-territory-24.html#post3248733
http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-...tly-not-chinese-territory-24.html#post3248736

1 or 2 maps isn't a problem. But so many maps is a different story

4) Vietnam and Philippines have been asked you to go to international court, but you always avoid. Why? You know that you don't have evidence, so if you go there, you will loose. End of story

In conclusion, they have never be your islands, you just came and invaded them in 1956, 1974, 1988. So China is the thief, the robber, the bully.

If you want to invade, just come. Your fake air-craft will fall down automatically, we don't even need to use our Su-30MK2V.

 

[Martian2]

Brainwashed propagator is talking about bullying again

It should be:
"In the court of public opinion in China and its vassals, everyone can see that the South China Sea islands belong to China. It's the result of a huge effort from a lot of brainwashed propagators like Martian2, who always provide invisible evidence that we can't even see it"

How many times I have educated you about your invisible historical evidence(s)?

If you want to invade, just come. Your fake air-craft will fall down automatically, we don't even need to use our Su-30MK2V.

4) Vietnam and Philippines have been asked you to go to international court, but you always avoid. Why? You know that you don't have evidence, so if you go there, you will loose. End of story

In conclusion, they have never be your islands, you just came and invaded them in 1956, 1974, 1988. So China is the thief, the robber, the bully.

War to put Vietnamese in your place

It doesn't matter if you repeat your lies a thousand or a million times. No one cares.

The only thing that matters is that your navy has to face the PLA Navy in the final battle. Johnson Reef in 1988 was only a preview. I expect the PLA Navy to lay waste to your entire Vietnamese naval forces and the South China Sea issue will be settled.

It took a war in 1962 to stop Nehru's Indian Forward Policy. Similarly, it will take a war to put you Vietnamese in your place.

----------

By the way, China's new weapon system will be ready in six short years (IOC for J-20 Mighty Dragon: 2018). I hope you guys are ready for Red Storm Rising.

New photographs of J-20 Mighty Dragon "2002"

More new pictures from the recent test flight (side weapon bay opened)

J-20 Mighty Dragon "2002" around July 31, 2012

From a distance, the J-20 "2002" looks like a compact fighter. It appears to be the J-10 Vigorous Dragon's bigger brother. This picture was taken during the 11th test flight around July 27, 2012.

[Note: Thank you to Greyboy2 for the pictures.]

----------

Another picture from a good angle.

[Note: Thank you to No_name for the picture.]

 

[Đảo Bạch Long Vỹ]

It doesn't matter if you repeat your lies a thousand or a million times. No one cares.

Everyone cares. Except brainwashed propagators.

The only thing that matters is that your navy has to face the PLA Navy in the final battle. Johnson Reef in 1988 was only a preview. I expect the PLA Navy to lay waste to your entire Vietnamese naval forces and the South China Sea issue will be settled.

You can't engage Military Engineers all the time, so don't expect your luck in 1988 will happen again. This time we have Su-30MK2V, S-300, K-300 Bastion-P, Gepard 3.9, and later we will have Kilo 636 class submarine and maybe Amur class submarine. Oh, but I don't thing we will have to use our toys, because your fake aircrafts will fall down automatically.

It took a war in 1962 to stop Nehru's Indian Forward Policy. Similarly, it will take a war to put you Vietnamese in your place.

Take a war like 1979

 

[asean_2015]

The battlefield is the only recourse

China doesn't care about biased international courts. For example, look at the current defending world champion Ye Shiwen. She has passed drug tests and the Western media still shamelessly accuse her of doping. The international court is stacked with prejudiced western judges and China will never permit an anti-Chinese international court to intercede.

In the court of public opinion, everyone can see that the South China Sea islands belong to China. Now, China will defend her historical territory through military power (e.g. see Johnson Reef in 1988).

1. China tried talking. Vietnam and the Philippines have disregarded China's historical evidence. Just like Nehru in 1962.

2. China offered a reasonable joint-development deal. Vietnam and the Philippines have flatly rejected China's compromise, which the Japanese accepted for the East China Sea.

3. China will lets its guns and missiles do the talking. Nehru found out the hard way that China will defend its sovereignty. If talking doesn't work, fighting on the battlefield is the only recourse.

1. The historical evidence of China your posted is only for fun. As one Vietnamese guy said Discovery (but do nothing with sovereignty) -> Fishing (but do nothing with sovereignty) -> Someone passed there (but do nothing with sovereignty). The Chinese map 1904 is a very strong evidence to show the sovereignty of China.

2. One cannot offer what he/she does not have.

3. Letting guns and missiles do the talking are the actions of a robber.

My comment: If the war between China and Vietnam happens, I guess you still sit beside your computer and fight behind the monitor. Each family in China has only a single child. Do you want Chinese families lose their children in order to invade other countries? It will be an very unjust war. I suppose many Vietnames guys in this forum lets knowledge, evidence of sovereignty, maps, documment ... do the talking since they want to avoid a war. But it does not mean that they are afraid of war if you look again at Vietnamese history.

 

[Hellraiser007]

War to put Vietnamese in your place

It doesn't matter if you repeat your lies a thousand or a million times. No one cares.

The only thing that matters is that your navy has to face the PLA Navy in the final battle. Johnson Reef in 1988 was only a preview. I expect the PLA Navy to lay waste to your entire Vietnamese naval forces and the South China Sea issue will be settled.

It took a war in 1962 to stop Nehru's Indian Forward Policy. Similarly, it will take a war to put you Vietnamese in your place.

----------

By the way, China's new weapon system will be ready in six short years (IOC for J-20 Mighty Dragon: 2018). I hope you guys are ready for Red Storm Rising.

Largely Untested technology, I doubt the Chinese even know the air battle doctrines. When it come to Battle it is China that is going to loose its edge and will go back to two decades and your CCP knows it that is the reason for empty rheotrics.
Guys like you can be brain washed and can be sent as human bombs

 

[grandmaster]

1. The historical evidence of China your posted is only for fun. As one Vietnamese guy said Discovery (but do nothing with sovereignty) -> Fishing (but do nothing with sovereignty) -> Someone passed there (but do nothing with sovereignty). The Chinese map 1904 is a very strong evidence to show the sovereignty of China.

2. One cannot offer what he/she does not have.

3. Letting guns and missiles do the talking are the actions of a robber.

My comment: If the war between China and Vietnam happens, I guess you still sit beside your computer and fight behind the monitor. Each family in China has only a single child. Do you want Chinese families lose their children in order to invade other countries? It will be an very unjust war. I suppose many Vietnames guys in this forum lets knowledge, evidence of sovereignty, maps, documment ... do the talking since they want to avoid a war. But it does not mean that they are afraid of war if you look again at Vietnamese history.

- your reasoning is invalid. as what you said, you said discovery and fishing do not mean sovereignty, then the evidences that you vietnamese discovered and fshed on these islands have nothing to do with your sovereignty.
- second, as vietnamese said someone passed there would do nothing with sovereingty, therefore, the maps and whatever from the west that the vietnamese and filipino use to back your claims are invalid.
- third, "Letting guns and missiles do the talking are the actions of a robber". your are unreasonable yourself, since US did that on vietnam but vietnam does not say them robber, japanese did that to asia and vietnam, but vietnamese still tries to suck up japanse and american
-forth, map of 1904 you guys showed in this forum DID NOT show the sovereignty of vietnam on these islands either. it is baseless for vietnamese to claim like that.
- your comment show your vietnamese nature, that is biased and liar. how come you state that vietnamese wants to avoid war while threatening to kill all han people? you show your biased true face! yes, chinese people have only one child and that is why china doesnt want to go for war because they afraid of losing their children. in contrast, vietnamese people have many children, that is why vietnamese and filippino are so aggressive and threaten to wage against china!

 

[asean_2015]

- your reasoning is invalid. as what you said, you said discovery and fishing do not mean sovereignty, then the evidences that you vietnamese discovered and fshed on these islands have nothing to do with your sovereignty.
- second, as vietnamese said someone passed there would do nothing with sovereingty, therefore, the maps and whatever from the west that the vietnamese and filipino use to back your claims are invalid.
- third, "Letting guns and missiles do the talking are the actions of a robber". your are unreasonable yourself, since US did that on vietnam but vietnam does not say them robber, japanese did that to asia and vietnam, but vietnamese still tries to suck up japanse and american
-forth, map of 1904 you guys showed in this forum DID NOT show the sovereignty of vietnam on these islands either. it is baseless for vietnamese to claim like that.
- your comment show your vietnamese nature, that is biased and liar. how come you state that vietnamese wants to avoid war while threatening to kill all han people? you show your biased true face! yes, chinese people have only one child and that is why china doesnt want to go for war because they afraid of losing their children. in contrast, vietnamese people have many children, that is why vietnamese and filippino are so aggressive and threaten to wage against china!

1. I guess the envidences of Vietnam are maps and official documents, neither dicovering nor fishing. I am waiting for a new topic which proves Vietnamese water territory in more details.
2. I did not get your point but passing is not equal to a map.
3. I suppose that if US, Japan or any country now uses guns and missiles to do the talking with Vietnam, Vietnemese guys will call them robber as well. What do you call them if they aim at your country?
4. You should read the title of that topic again. The map 1904 did not focus on the sovereignty of Vietnam. It proves the soverignty of China. I always say that the proves of Vietnames sovereignty should be put into another topic.
5. Fisrt, you should read again the comment of the Chinese guy you cited ''China will lets its guns and missiles do the talking''. Then you get to know who threaten to kill whom.

 

[NiceGuy]

- your reasoning is invalid. as what you said, you said discovery and fishing do not mean sovereignty, then the evidences that you vietnamese discovered and fshed on these islands have nothing to do with your sovereignty.
- second, as vietnamese said someone passed there would do nothing with sovereingty, therefore, the maps and whatever from the west that the vietnamese and filipino use to back your claims are invalid.
- third, "Letting guns and missiles do the talking are the actions of a robber". your are unreasonable yourself, since US did that on vietnam but vietnam does not say them robber, japanese did that to asia and vietnam, but vietnamese still tries to suck up japanse and american
-forth, map of 1904 you guys showed in this forum DID NOT show the sovereignty of vietnam on these islands either. it is baseless for vietnamese to claim like that.
- your comment show your vietnamese nature, that is biased and liar. how come you state that vietnamese wants to avoid war while threatening to kill all han people? you show your biased true face! yes, chinese people have only one child and that is why china doesnt want to go for war because they afraid of losing their children. in contrast, vietnamese people have many children, that is why vietnamese and filippino are so aggressive and threaten to wage against china!

If you're a real Pakistanis, you'd better find another ally now.No chinese care about a real collaboration with your country.

Faced with such hyperbole, I flipped across to the website of the People’s Daily to see what it had to say about Pakistan. At the time I looked, there was no mention of Pakistan. It did however give prominence to a story about China and India holding a strategic dialogue to build economic ties.
----------------------------------------
For China, however, as Dr. Hoyt also points out, "the costs of a closer relationship with Pakistan may outweigh the benefits." Not only does China have no reason to complicate its relations with the US, India, and the central Asian states of Afghanistan, Kyrgyzstan, Uzbekistan, Tajikistan and the rest --- all of which feel victimized or threatened to one degree of another by Pakistan's support for aggressive Islamism. China itself has been the target of Islamists in its far western province of Sinkiang.

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-...-train-peacekeeping-forces.html#ixzz22VCMAnZb

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-...-train-peacekeeping-forces.html#ixzz22VBcBW7S

 

[Martian2]

Three Strikes against Vietnam

1. The United States refuses to support Vietnam and has provided $0 military aid.

2. ASEAN refuses to issue a joint communique that mentions the South China Sea issue.

3. There is no U.N. resolution to indicate support for Vietnam.

In conclusion, the world has concluded China's historical evidence of first discovery and claim of the South China Sea islands and maritime territory is compelling. Through their actions, the world has shown that they believe China is the rightful owner of the South China Sea islands.

 

[asean_2015]

Three Strikes against Vietnam

1. The United States refuses to support Vietnam and has provided $0 military aid.

2. ASEAN refuses to issue a joint communique that mentions the South China Sea issue.

3. There is no U.N. resolution to indicate support for Vietnam.

In conclusion, the world has concluded China's historical evidence of first discovery and claim of the South China Sea islands and maritime territory is compelling. Through their actions, the world has shown that they believe China is the rightful owner of the South China Sea islands.

I think you should learn how to make a conclusion. Simply, if the world believe China as you said, why is China always afraid of bringing the problem to an international court?

 

[Martian2]

I think you should learn how to make a conclusion. Simply, if the world believe China as you said, why is China always afraid of bringing the problem to an international court?

I've already answered your question many times.

China has indisputable sovereignty over the South China Sea islands and maritime territories. For proof, see China's imperial records dating from the Han Dynasty (2,000 years ago) and onwards. Also, see 12th, 13th, and 15th century shipwrecks discovered near the South China Sea islands. Don't forget the Chinese skeletons, artifacts, and wells on the South China Sea islands.

The world agrees this is a slam dunk case in China's favor. Vietnam is a trespasser and agitator. The United States, ASEAN, and U.N. have shown no support whatsoever for Vietnam.

 

[gpit]

1. The historical evidence of China your posted is only for fun. As one Vietnamese guy said Discovery (but do nothing with sovereignty) -> Fishing (but do nothing with sovereignty) -> Someone passed there (but do nothing with sovereignty). The Chinese map 1904 is a very strong evidence to show the sovereignty of China.

...

LOL!

Do you know those Vietnamese put forward the 1904 map without knowing what the map is?

Do you know Vietnamese history is all written in Chinese?

Do you know I asked then more than 10 times: do you know Chinese/ Do you read your history books in it original forms?

Do you know none of them answered back?

LOL! let's image such a clownish scene: a history illiterate waving a map like mad claiming and raving. And a learnt person passes by, asking him: do you know the language on the map?

That's the scenario how the illiterate is getting humiliated: a history-less illiterate brags about his history.

JOKE!

And seems you are on joker's side! then enjoy it as everybody in the world can see those posts and those rantings.

 

[asean_2015]

I've already answered your question many times.

China has indisputable sovereignty over the South China Sea islands and maritime territories. For proof, see China's imperial records dating from the Han Dynasty (2,000 years ago) and onwards. Also, see 12th, 13th, and 15th century shipwrecks discovered near the South China Sea islands. Don't forget the Chinese skeletons, artifacts, and wells on the South China Sea islands.

The world agrees this is a slam dunk case in China's favor. Vietnam is a trespasser and agitator. The United States, ASEAN, and U.N. have shown no support whatsoever for Vietnam.

2000-year again. I wish you can show an evidence like a real single map of your ancestor (like the map 1904) to prove the water territory. Discovering, fishing or passing has no meaning for sovereignty.

Since United States, ASEAN, and U.N. have no support for Vietnam, why does China need to be afraid of an international court?