Sound byte: ‘The more Afghans trust Pakistan, the worse off we are’

[pakistani342]

Published in Dawn here, from a Track II forum.

...

Unfortunately, the popular feeling in Afghanistan is that the more we trust Pakistan, the worse the situation will get in terms of Taliban attacks.

...

The first step should be that Pakistan should officially ban all activities of the Afghan Taliban, including the Haqqani network, in Pakistan. Can you do that? If yes, then you are truly a friend. If not, then don’t expect Afghans to trust you. It is that simple.

...

I keep hearing in Pakistan that thanks to Operation Zarb-i-Azb, things are much better here. But I find it disturbing that at the same time as things have improved on this side of the border, terrorist attacks in Afghanistan have reached alarming levels. This means that we care only about our own well-being, not the well-being of the other side. This means we are not cooperating yet in practical terms.

 

[Masīd]

Unfortunately, the popular feeling in Afghanistan is that the more we trust Pakistan, the worse the situation will get in terms of Taliban attacks.

...

The first step should be that Pakistan should officially ban all activities of the Afghan Taliban, including the Haqqani network, in Pakistan. Can you do that? If yes, then you are truly a friend. If not, then don’t expect Afghans to trust you. It is that simple.

...

I keep hearing in Pakistan that thanks to Operation Zarb-i-Azb, things are much better here. But I find it disturbing that at the same time as things have improved on this side of the border, terrorist attacks in Afghanistan have reached alarming levels. This means that we care only about our own well-being, not the well-being of the other side. This means we are not cooperating yet in practical terms.

- Attacks in Afghanistan are taking place from last 14 years..
- Talibans used to come here into FATA From Afghanistan when U.S,NATO had all of their troops in Afghanistan.
- 'India financed problems for Pakistan' from Afghanistan: Chuck Hagel...He said that in 2013 so u can imply that indians were using Afghanistan land against Pakistan i.e before 2013..Militant leader head of TTP --->> Fazal Hayat more commonly known by his pseudonym Fazlulla (Mullah Radio) he is also living in Afghanistan..
- Only solution to control terrorism in Afghanistan is to destroy safe Heavens of talibans within Afghanistan and secure it's borders,every 2nd day we Pakistanis used to hear news about suicide attacks in our country and TTP Terrorist org always claimed responsibility of suicide attacks,North Waziristan and South Waziristan were their safe heavens,they were getting support from afghanistan but the only difference was that they were living in Pakistan,TTP Last safe heaven N.Waziristan is almost cleared and Zarb-e-Azab Op is almost complete & results are in front of us..Now i would suggest afghans to do the same in their country and stop blaming Pakistan,first they should clear half of their land from afghan talibans then it will be wise and reasonable to blame Pakistan...
- They Afghans blame us for their own short comings and we Pakistanis used to blame Afghanistan for not stopping Indians to stop funding extremists in our country but when we started Operations in Fata to take back all our lands and to secure our borders and to stop cross border movements and obviously destroy Talibans bombs making factories and their safe heavens,now we have done that but the prob is that Afghans are still not satisfied and blaming us continuously...
- TTP Chimpanzees are living in Afghanistan,they played football with the skulls and they killed countless **** Soldiers...
- Almost 90% of Afghan Talibans consist of Afghan Pashtuns,Pashtuns of afghanistan don't have any other choice they simply join the terrorists org or start the opium/poppy business,Pashtuns of Afghanistan were ignored by U.S and same happened before and after USSR Invasion of Afghanistan...
- One thing i don't understand that Afghan talibans claim responsibility of every attack in Afghanistan and the govt Of Afghanistan blame Haqqani network...

 

[A-Team]

- Attacks in Afghanistan are taking place from last 14 years..
- Talibans used to come here into FATA From Afghanistan when U.S,NATO had all of their troops in Afghanistan.
- 'India financed problems for Pakistan' from Afghanistan: Chuck Hagel...He said that in 2013 so u can imply that indians were using Afghanistan land against Pakistan i.e before 2013..Militant leader head of TTP --->> Fazal Hayat more commonly known by his pseudonym Fazlulla (Mullah Radio) he is also living in Afghanistan..
- Only solution to control terrorism in Afghanistan is to destroy safe Heavens of talibans within Afghanistan and secure it's borders,every 2nd day we Pakistanis used to hear news about suicide attacks in our country and TTP Terrorist org always claimed responsibility of suicide attacks,North Waziristan and South Waziristan were their safe heavens,they were getting support from afghanistan but the only difference was that they were living in Pakistan,TTP Last safe heaven N.Waziristan is almost cleared and Zarb-e-Azab Op is almost complete & results are in front of us..Now i would suggest afghans to do the same in their country and stop blaming Pakistan,first they should clear half of their land from afghan talibans then it will be wise and reasonable to blame Pakistan...
- They Afghans blame us for their own short comings and we Pakistanis used to blame Afghanistan for not stopping Indians to stop funding extremists in our country but when we started Operations in Fata to take back all our lands and to secure our borders and to stop cross border movements and obviously destroy Talibans bombs making factories and their safe heavens,now we have done that but the prob is that Afghans are still not satisfied and blaming us continuously...
- TTP Chimpanzees are living in Afghanistan,they played football with the skulls and they killed countless **** Soldiers...
- Almost 90% of Afghan Talibans consist of Afghan Pashtuns,Pashtuns of afghanistan don't have any other choice they simply join the terrorists org or start the opium/poppy business,Pashtuns of Afghanistan were ignored by U.S and same happened before and after USSR Invasion of Afghanistan...
- One thing i don't understand that Afghan talibans claim responsibility of every attack in Afghanistan and the govt Of Afghanistan blame Haqqani network...

In Summary

We need to kill and destroy both TTP, Afghan Taliban and the Haqqani wherever they reside be the Afghan side or the Pakistani side.

We both have our flaws and have tried to backstab eachother but if we are objective we need to realize that undermining each other has brought us nothing but misery, thus it may sound very naive to change over night but if we think pan-region where by if Pakistan strives, then Afghanistan developes or Afghanistan strives then Pakistan develops then you will see how the region transforms.

Peace

 

[xyxmt]

In Summary

We need to kill and destroy both TTP, Afghan Taliban and the Haqqani wherever they reside be the Afghan side or the Pakistani side.

We both have our flaws and have tried to backstab eachother but if we are objective we need to realize that undermining each other has brought us nothing but misery, thus it may sound very naive to change over night but if we think pan-region where by if Pakistan strives, then Afghanistan developes or Afghanistan strives then Pakistan develops then you will see how the region transforms.

Peace

tell you officials to start co-operating with Pakistan instead of India
nothing against Afghans but as long as India is present in Afghanistan nothing good will happen.

 

[A-Team]

tell you officials to start co-operating with Pakistan instead of India
nothing against Afghans but as long as India is present in Afghanistan nothing good will happen.

Afghanistan demands that Pakistan stops cooperating with Iran, because Afghans dont like Iranians, nothing against Pakistan but as long as Iranians are present in Pakistan nothing good will happend.

Do you see how it sounds ?

 

[pakistani342]

Afghanistan demands that Pakistan stops cooperating with Iran, because Afghans dont like Iranians, nothing against Pakistan but as long as Iranians are present in Pakistan nothing good will happend.

Do you see how it sounds ?

Actually that is a very good example:

Saudi Arabia demands that Pakistan limit its engagement with Iran due to whatever reason Saudi Arabia and Iran have -- and because ~1 million Pakistanis work in Saudi Arabia and due to other mutual affinities Pakistan complies. That is an excellent example you have raised (one which I've raised before too). Realpolitik and not nice bed time stories.

Similarly, Saudi citizens don't face suicide bombings as Pakistanis do -- everything is not fair in this world -- but you have not seen Pakistanis burning Saudi Flags.

 

[Pakistani till death]

Why should we trust afghanistan, the country that lays claim to half of our country. The country that supported separatist insurgencies. The country that refused to accept us in the UN. The country that fired 8 ballistic missiles in the 80s. The country that tried to invade bajaur. The country that attacked our embassy. The country that assassinated our first PM wits usa's support. So why should we trust you? You started problems between us and if you cant take the heat then its your problem. And when all these things were happening we were still trying to improve relations. Afghans are no saints. They think history started in the 90s and forget all the crap they did before it. No sympathy whatsoever for this joke of a country.
@A-Team anything to say regarding any of these events?

 

[Jazzbot]

When we started Operation Zrb-e-Azb, we asked Afghans to co-operate and seal the border so these miscreants won't find any place to run. But as usual, you idiots didn't listen.

Now as a result of Zarb-e-Azb, most of the miscreants in our FATA are either captured/killed or ran into Afghanistan to save their lives. Who is responsible for this? YOU tell me.

We can't stop them running into Afghanistan if Afghans themselves are not willing to co-operate. Now its up to you to deal with it. Stop crying.

Pakistan on the other hand, must complete Zarb-e-Azb and then shift the focus on sealing the Pak-Afghan border completely. Either dig, fence, mine, increase petrol or do whatever needed to completely block the return of these b@stards into our territory. We must not allow them to return after regrouping in their safe heavens inside Afghanistan and cause havoc in our cities like before.

 

[Al-Taïr]

Afghanistan demands that Pakistan stops cooperating with Iran, because Afghans dont like Iranians, nothing against Pakistan but as long as Iranians are present in Pakistan nothing good will happend.

Do you see how it sounds ?

Brother, All we want is mutual peace&harmony... Whatever relation we have with iran, shouldn't concern u. (as long as iran doesn't use our land to destablize afghanistan.)
We want to be neutral in ummah's disagreements, as u can guess from yemen crises.

 

[xyxmt]

Afghanistan demands that Pakistan stops cooperating with Iran, because Afghans dont like Iranians, nothing against Pakistan but as long as Iranians are present in Pakistan nothing good will happend.

Do you see how it sounds ?

lol Pakistan never co-operated with Iranians
well then lets not discuss this issue anymore, what is there to discuss

 

[TMA]

Why should we trust afghanistan, the country that lays claim to half of our country. The country that supported separatist insurgencies. The country that refused to accept us in the UN. The country that fired 8 ballistic missiles in the 80s. The country that tried to invade bajaur. The country that attacked our embassy. The country that assassinated our first PM wits usa's support. So why should we trust you? You started problems between us and if you cant take the heat then its your problem. And when all these things were happening we were still trying to improve relations. Afghans are no saints. They think history started in the 90s and forget all the crap they did before it. No sympathy whatsoever for this joke of a country.
@A-Team anything to say regarding any of these events?

Afghanistan helped assassinate Pakistan's first PM? Do you have sources? Links?

 

[Pakistani till death]

Afghanistan helped assassinate Pakistan's first PM? Do you have sources? Links?

Secret is out: Americans murdered Liaquat Ali Khan! | Pakistan Today
Killing Liaquat Ali Khan ‹ The Friday Times

 

[nangyale]

Afghanistan demands that Pakistan stops cooperating with Iran, because Afghans dont like Iranians, nothing against Pakistan but as long as Iranians are present in Pakistan nothing good will happend.

Do you see how it sounds ?

If Iran was acting against the interests of Afghanistan and was using Pakistani territory to attack and harbor anti-Afghanistan elements then you would be right to make such a demand. But that is not the case. IS it?

In case of India they are using Afghan territory and Pakistan's open border with Afghanistan to attack Pakistan, in other words India is poisoning the well that Afghans are drinking from. Imagine if Pakistan completely sealed off it's border with Afghanistan and said no to any and all Afghan refugees, who do you think is going to suffer the most?
Don't get me wrong I for one (and I am sure there are plenty of others) will protest against such development because of our affinity with Afghanistan. But you got to understand it's no good poisoning the well you drink from.

India's interest in Afghanistan is to harm Pakistan, while Pakistan's interest is to have a friendly and stable neighbor, with who to prosper together.

 

[A-Team]

If Iran was acting against the interests of Afghanistan and was using Pakistani territory to attack and harbor anti-Afghanistan elements then you would be right to make such a demand. But that is not the case. IS it?

In case of India they are using Afghan territory and Pakistan's open border with Afghanistan to attack Pakistan, in other words India is poisoning the well that Afghans are drinking from. Imagine if Pakistan completely sealed off it's border with Afghanistan and said no to any and all Afghan refugees, who do you think is going to suffer the most?
Don't get me wrong I for one (and I am sure there are plenty of others) will protest against such development because of our affinity with Afghanistan. But you got to understand it's no good poisoning the well you drink from.

India's interest in Afghanistan is to harm Pakistan, while Pakistan's interest is to have a friendly and stable neighbor, with who to prosper together.

All right there are some elements in your statement I can work with, this goes on to show that with all the noise around us, if we want, we can make it work between you and us.

That being said I am fairly surprised how my friends in Pakistan perceive the amount of influence Indians have in Afghanistan, do you think Afghans are so naive that they will screw up their relationship with their immediate neighbour, which is our gateway to commerce, hosting millions of Afghans and nuclear power to a country that is not in our immediate geographic location?? This is the precise reason that Ashraf Ghani has gone to extreme lengths to show to his Pakistani counterparts that Afghan-Indian relationship is in no way counterproductive to Pakistani interests.
Afghanistan and India has relationship going thousands of years and it will continue to be there but it doesnt mean that Afghanistan will allow anyone to hurt Pakistani interests from its soil.

PS : If there are still areas where Pakistani interests are hurt from the Afghan soil it doesnt mean that Afghanistan is supporting it just shows that the Afghan state is still weak and the positive effects of a strong state means that it can safeguard its soil in better manner and here Pakistan can help by supporting Afghan institutions, by dismantling any anti afghan elements etc. Do you follow where I am heading ?

 

[nangyale]

All right there are some elements in your statement I can work with, this goes on to show that with all the noise around us, if we want, we can make it work between you and us.

That being said I am fairly surprised how my friends in Pakistan perceive the amount of influence Indians have in Afghanistan, do you think Afghans are so naive that they will screw up their relationship with their immediate neighbour, which is our gateway to commerce, hosting millions of Afghans and nuclear power to a country that is not in our immediate geographic location?? This is the precise reason that Ashraf Ghani has gone to extreme lengths to show to his Pakistani counterparts that Afghan-Indian relationship is in no way counterproductive to Pakistani interests.
Afghanistan and India has relationship going thousands of years and it will continue to be there but it doesnt mean that Afghanistan will allow anyone to hurt Pakistani interests from its soil.

I hope what you write is true, that Afghanistan will not allow India to harm Pakistan. But as they say actions speak louder than words.
When we speak to the men on the ground (and I have spoken to Pakistani military personnel although I cannot name names) who say that majority of the TTP is supported and funded by foreign intelligence agencies operating from Afghanistan.
You have got to understand the Ghani presidency only started a year ago and he may have good intentions, but a lot of the Afghan security apparatus is manned by members of the erstwhile Northern Alliance which (since the Mujaheddin era) is anti-Pakistan (do you remember the Peshawar Model School bus kidnapping), also the previous administration (again probably because of the president's personal history) was quite anti-Pakistan. That's not to say all Afghan administrations were anti-Pakistan. There has been good and bad patches.
Look another way how many Indian consulates (and outposts) there were pre-2001 and how they mushroomed after the US invasion and change of administration.