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Sorry, China: Why the Japanese Navy is the Best in Asia

I love the self-confidence of the Japanese guy! While claiming itself to be the best in Asia, he/she even doesn't show any proof for a direct comparison.

Well, the author said "The most powerful of Japan’s surface combatants are the kongo class of guided-missile destroyers." So lets make a comparison on this kind of Aegis ships.

The author did not do his fact checking.

The most capable and modern Japanese destroyer is not the Kongo class, but the Atago class, its successor. The Atago class is running Aegis Baseline 7, and will be the first in line to be updated to Baseline 9. The Harpoon was replaced with a longer ranged Japanese AShM, and the main gun was upgraded to a Mk. 45 mod 4 127mm with more reach. The Kongo class is equipped with an older Aegis Baseline (Baseline 4/5) and lacks even a rear hangar.

While I had to look up some of these figures, these changes are generally very well known among JMSDF watchers, especially something as basic as the chronology of JMSDF platforms. I actually had to check the date on the Mizokami article, to make sure I wasn't reading something written more than half a decade ago.

The fanboys here can sometimes lack knowledge and objectivity, but I've never seen a fanboy here claim to be a "defense and national security writer." On the other hand, Mizokami is a published writer who has established himself a reputation for making baseless versus comparisons while playing fast and loose with the facts to push a narrative. More is expected of him, but he isn't rising to the occasion.

I've mentioned some respectable western sources before, I'll now mention some knowledgeable writers that specialize on Chinese defence matters. We have our very own Deino, who has published two paperback books already with Harpia on the subject of the PLAAF. Our own Henri K. who runs EastPendulum, and maintains a youtube channel filled with primary sources on the PLA. Blitzo who runs PLA Real Talk and has very concise analysis of various PLA platforms. Tphuangs PLA blog, which has been continuously updated and maintained for nearly a decade now.

The people here aren't all bad, and there are some really distinguished people among us. Then there are those who tirelessly post photos and news from Chinese BBS without engaging in mudslinging. I'm not about to paint certain nationalities into a corner and accuse them all of being bad apples.
 
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japan_navy.jpg

Kyle Mizokami
October 16, 2016

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The best navy in Asia has a total of 114 warships and 45,800 volunteer personnel. It has a large fleet of fast, powerful destroyers, thoroughly modern diesel-electric attack submarines, and amphibious ships that can haul tanks and other ground forces. It can hunt submarines, square off against invasion fleets, and shoot down enemy ballistic missiles. Despite all of that firepower, this is not in fact a navy at all, but an armed cohort of civil servants.

Technically, the Japan Maritime Self-Defense Force is a “self-defense force” designed to overcome the country’s constitutional limits on armed forces. It is, ship for ship, the best navy in Asia.

The main component of the MSDF are its fleet of forty-six destroyers and frigates—more than that those fielded by the United Kingdom and France combined. Organized into escort flotillas, Japan’s tin-can navy is designed to defend the country from invasion, help retake Japanese territory and keep the sea-lanes open.

The most powerful of Japan’s surface combatants are the Kongo class of guided-missile destroyers. The four ships—Kongo, Kirishima, Myoko andChokai—are all named after battleships and cruisers of the Imperial Japanese Navy, a practice once generally avoided but becoming more popular as the memory of World War II fades.

The Kongo destroyers are based on the original U.S. Navy Arleigh Burke–class Flight I destroyers in general shape and armament. Like the Burke class, the heart of the ship is the Aegis Combat System, capable of tracking and engaging area air-defense threats. It also provides a national ballistic-missile defense system for all of Japan—just two Kongos can protect most of the country.

Armament for the destroyers is primarily defensive, with ninety Mark 41 vertical launching missile silos, split between the fore and aft decks. The Kongos carry SM-2MR air defense missiles and SM-3 Block IB ballistic missile interceptors, the latter soon to be replaced with the newer Block IIA version. The destroyers also carry one five-inch main gun, eight Harpoon antiship missiles, six antisubmarine torpedo tubes and two twenty-millimeter Phalanx close-in weapon systems.

Another formidable Japanese ship is the JS Izumo. At twenty-seven thousand tons fully loaded and more than eight hundred feet long, Izumohas a full-length flight deck, an island for controlling flight operations, aircraft elevators and a hangar that spans the length of the ship.

While that sounds like a traditional aircraft carrier, Japan insists the ship is actually a “helicopter destroyer.” Izumo can’t carry fixed-wing fighter jets but it can carry up to fourteen helicopters. These helicopters and their missions can vary, from antisubmarine warfare to minesweeping to helicopter airmobile assault. This makes the Izumo a flexible platform capable of taking on a variety of tasks. A second ship of the class, Kaga, is currently under construction.

Japan’s submarine force is another major component of the MSDF. Japan is building up to a force of twenty-two submarines to provide great numbers against a growing Chinese Navy. The fleet will consist of two classes of submarines, the older Oyashio class, and the newer, deadlier Soryu class.

At 4,100 tons submerged, the Soryu submarines are Japan’s largest submarines since the I-400 class of World War II. The subs are equipped with Stirling air independent propulsion systems, capable of powering the submarine silently underwater for up to two weeks, and can make thirteen knots surfaced and twenty knots submerged.

The Soryus are equipped with six 533-millimeter bow-mounted torpedo tubes, with a mix of twenty Type 89 heavyweight homing torpedoes and American-made Sub-Harpoon missiles. They can also lay mines to block the many straits an invasion force would attempt to force.

Finally, Japan has three Osumi-class tank landing ships. The ships resemble small aircraft carriers, with a 130-meter long flight deck stretching the length of the ship. That’s where the resemblance ends, however, as the Osumi ships lack aircraft elevators and a hangar. The ships were designed to rapidly move Ground Self-Defense Force tanks between the main islands of Japan, reinforcing any of them against invasion.

The Osumis can carry up to 1,400 tons of cargo, fourteen Type 10 or Type 90 tanks, and up to one thousand ground troops. They are equipped with well decks and American-designed LCAC hovercraft, allowing them to float out heavy equipment and sent them to shore. This capability is especially useful in light of Japan’s new dynamic defense strategy, which calls for amphibious forces capable of taking back islands seized by a hypothetical enemy.

One final reason why Japan’s navy is the best in Asia? On March 11, 2011, a magnitude 9.0 earthquake struck off the coast of northern Japan. Vice Admiral Hiromi Takashima, commandant of the Yokosuka Naval District, immediately assumed temporary command of the entire MSDF and ordered all available ships north to the earthquake zone. The first ship left just forty-five minutes after the earthquake. Another seventeen ships packed with relief supplies departed within eighteen hours, some with only partially recalled crews. This ability to rapidly sortie the fleet with virtually no notice was perhaps the true test of the MSDF’s professionalism and efficiency.

Kyle Mizokami is a defense and national security writer based in San Francisco who has appeared in the Diplomat, Foreign Policy, War is Boringand the Daily Beast. In 2009 he cofounded the defense and security blog Japan Security Watch. You can follow him on Twitter: @KyleMizokami.

http://nationalinterest.org/blog/th...-the-japanese-navy-the-best-asia-18056?page=2


Seems like mindless self-praise, China has the best navy in Asia this is an indisputable fact.

Not only is China's fleets 4 times larger but it also has the DF-21D or "Carrier Killer".

They also have an Aircraft Carrier against Japan that has none.
 
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Seems like mindless self-praise, China has the best navy in Asia this is an indisputable fact.

Not only is China's fleets 4 times larger but it also has the DF-21D or "Carrier Killer".

They also have an Aircraft Carrier against Japan that has none.
That 'fact' is in fact quite disputable. How you can claim japan has no carrier while looking at a pic of, is beyond me. What they currently lack is f35b. But that can change right quick. The effectiveness of df-21d remains to be seen: thesoviets spent decades on such a missile only to abandon it. That the chinese navy is larger than the japanese should be proven on the basis of comparison of number and quality of large surface combattant and submarines. And even if that count turned in china's favor, one should consider that china has a lot more coastline and shipping lanes to protect, which to a degree prevent concentration.
 
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That 'fact' is in fact quite disputable. How you can claim japan has no carrier while looking at a pic of, is byond me. What they currently lack is f35b. But that can change right quick. The effectiveness of df-21d remains to be seen: thesoviets spent decades on such a missile only to abandon it. That the chinese navy is larger than the japanese should be proven on the basis of comparison of number and quality of large surface combattant and submarines. And even if that count turned in china's favor, one should consider that china has a lot more coastline and shipping lanes to protect, which to a degree prevent concentration.

They don't have a carrier, they have a "Helicopter Carrier as stated in the Article. We are talking about Aircraft carriers.



I. Constitution and the Basis of Defense Policy

Note in particular this, from that page -

"for example, the SDF is not allowed to possess intercontinental ballistic missiles (ICBM), long-range strategic bombers, or attack aircraft carriers.".

So no Aircraft carrier vs the chinese which have the




An aircraft carrier is 50 times more effective then a Helicopter Carrier.


b. But that can change right quick. The effectiveness of df-21d remains to be seen: thesoviets spent decades on such a missile only to abandon it.

True it's effectivness has yet to be seen. But you can't deny that if it did work then it can clearly wreck any Japanese ships.

"This is an anti-ship ballistic missile that has a maximum range exceeding 1,450 kilometres (900 mi; 780 nmi), according to the U.S. National Air and Space Intelligence Center. The Intelligence Center did not believe it was deployed in 2009.[11] The guidance system is thought to be still in an evolutionary process as more UAVs and satellites are added.[13]"


"The US Department of Defense stated in 2010 that China has developed and reached initial operating capability (IOC)[14] of a conventionally armed[15] high hypersonic[16] land-based anti-ship ballistic missile based on the DF-21. This is the first ASBM and weapon system capable of targeting a moving aircraft carrier strike group from long-range, land-based mobile launchers.[17][18][19] The DF-21D is thought to employ maneuverable reentry vehicles (MaRVs) with a terminal guidance system. It may have been tested in 2005-6, and the launch of the Jianbing-5/YaoGan-1 and Jianbing-6/YaoGan-2 satellites offering targeting information from synthetic aperture radar (SAR) and visual imaging respectively. The upgrades enhance China's ability to prevent US carriers from operating in the Taiwan Strait.[20] Some have also suggested China could develop a "MIRVd" DF-21D with multiple independent missiles.[21]"

"United States Naval Institute in 2009 stated that such a warhead would be large enough to destroy an aircraft carrier in one hit and that there was "currently ... no defense against it" if it worked as theorized."


http://www.businessinsider.com/chin...ay-make-us-aircraft-carriers-obsolete-2015-10

http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/chinas-carrier-killer-really-threat-the-us-navy-13765



That the chinese navy is larger than the japanese should be proven on the basis of comparison of number and quality of large surface combattant and submarines.

http://www.businessinsider.com/euro...ons-in-weapons-and-military-technology-2014-4

http://www.businessinsider.com/the-chinese-navy-will-be-bigger-than-americas-by-2020-2014-12


http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-27/chinese-vs-japanese-navy-head-head-infographic

"PLA units are still exploring new ways to operate jointly, which could lead to merging their different weapon systems together," Wong said. Toshi Yoshihara, an associate professor at the US Naval War College, said that although the Japanese navy was still superior in technological sophistication and experience, China was catching up quickly.


"China is out-building Japan virtually across the board," Yoshihara said. He said the PLA Navy was deploying modern destroyers, frigates, fast-attack craft and submarines. "Japan is already having trouble keeping pace with this level of Chinese output."








Need I say more??



one should consider that china has a lot more coastline and shipping lanes to protect, which to a degree prevent concentration.

Chinese coastline length
approximately 14,500 km

China's coastline covers approximately 14,500 km (around 9,010 mi) from the Bohai gulf on the north to the Gulf of Tonkin on the south. Most of the northern half is low lying, although some of the mountains and hills of Northeast China and the Shandong Peninsula extend to the coast.

VS

Japanese coastline length
29,751 km

Factbook > Countries > Japan > Geography.
Coastline: 29,751 km.

Japan has more coastline to cover with a smaller navy.

If we were talking America vs Chinese navy then that's a whole different story but we are talking about Asian Naval powers and for that China is the indisputed king.
 
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Japan operates ddh, helicopter destroyers. The largest of those are the size of the retired british invincible class.

Sigh as for coast line. Japan does not have to watch a back door, china does. You can ignore that all you want, but it is the same as with folks that put the entire indian navy up against pakistan while in reality india cannot do so withou leaving other areas unattended.

But hey if you insist... china has the greatest navy. Gday.
 
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In July 2014, instead of using Article 96 of the Japanese Constitution to amend the Constitution, the Japanese government approved a reinterpretation which gave more powers to the Japan Self-Defense Forces, allowing them to defend other allies in case of war being declared upon them, despite concerns and disapproval from mainland China and South Korea, whereas the United States supported the move. This change is considered illegitimate by some Japanese political parties and citizens, since the Prime Minister circumvented Japan's constitutional amendment procedure.[1][2][3] In September 2015, the Japanese National Diet made the reinterpretation official by enacting a series of laws allowing the Japan Self-Defense Forces to provide material support to allies engaged in combat internationally. The justification is that by not defending/supporting an ally, it would weaken alliances and endanger Japan.[4]
In effect, constitutionally, there is no Japanese Navy!
The JSDF are not legally an army but an extension
of the internal security offices of all kind.

One has to understand a fan of China in his refusal
of folks claiming that the People Liberation Army's Navy*
might be a lesser tool than a rival's Police water units!

And goodbye all, Tay.


* Fun name in and of itself cuz one fails to see what a Chinese CG would be liberating past the Second Island Chain.
 
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KSsx-fxwvpat5001210.jpg

If you know what is the above picture about... then you know this is a silly articles.
 
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Chinese built Great wall of China over generations... invention of Gun powder cannon made it obsolete over night...
 
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Both are wrong. The strongest navy in Asia is the US 7th Fleet followed closely by the 5th Fleet with the 3rd Fleet coming in 3rd place.
 
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Which changed under the new laws passed by Abe's govt, Zarvan mate!
As of last year, that self-imposed ceiling has been removed.

Technically, that article is correct. Right now, Japan retains the edge and
its navy is the best in Asia. However, considering the speed of the PLAN's
modernization, this standing is expected to change.
I suppose the author choose to write this slightly childish piece now as it
may not hold water later?

Seriously, there is one First tier Navy on Earth and 3 Second tier ones :
UK, France and Japan. But let it be noted that Asia is arming faster in the
domain than any other region and the changes are qualitative, quantitative
and expanding tactically, so full spectrum really!
It is an interesting subject to follow and ponder on for the near future.

Great day all, Tay.

I am fully agree with youbon that, in Asia Pasific we got so many Major and regional Naval power in such small ponds. With South Korea, China, Japan, and an interesting notes is even smaller Asian states like Singapore, Malaysia and Vietnam hold a considerable firepower in this area
 
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