Sonia, Manmohan’s role in Agusta deal exposed

[DesiGuy1403]

The Gandhis have (sadly) survived much worse so I'll remain skeptical that Modi will do anything noteworthy to harm their interests. I don't beleive he is in cohots with them or anything, he is definetly an outsider but I also think he is aware at how entrenched they are and that they would never go down quietly and thus is picking his battles or neglecting to have them entirely.

Completely agree there.
Unless the eco system is destroyed, it is fairly difficult to touch Gandhi's, at least politically.

I would be interested to learn what his personal views on the family are though, does he still harbour resenment for their campaign against him?

Sir, Modi was hounded at best and at worst, he was a target of their assassination attempts. Doubt Modi will ever say it on open but the RSS section of BJP is very obviously very anti-Gandhi family.

I agree with this to a large degree excpet the part about Swamy's role. Swamy isn't there to prosecute anyone- he doesn't have that power, he is there to sling mud and hope it sticks. IF Modi was serious the CBI would already be in the loop but instead you have a loudmouth making accusations.

I think Swamy's role is not completely out in open. Why would Swamy accept RS position? I think BJP is holding few cards close to it's chest.


btw, we are only thinking of now. I think BJP & RSS has really long term plans. Look at how RSS turned the Assam narrative on it's head with it's hard work for over a decade. Only when the final outcome is visible we tend to appreciate the journey.

 

[Nilgiri]

The Gandhis have (sadly) survived much worse so I'll remain skeptical that Modi will do anything noteworthy to harm their interests.

If you are talking about Bofors scandal, they (Gandhi family) had to go into hiding politically for almost 10 years (during the PVNR era and BJP v1.0 rise).

Now any such hiding in response to the multiple scandals coming up now will mean the congress party doesnt survive in its current guise quite simply put. They have to confront head on (no other option)...and I don't think they can win that either in the long run....S. Swamy like you said will make sure enough sticks to them, he is quite excellent at that.

IF Modi was serious the CBI would already be in the loop but instead you have a loudmouth making accusations.

I thought they already petitioned CBI for a report on the matter? I would imagine once the initial CBI report is made, CBI will then delve into the nitty gritties.

The Gandhi family are billionaires there must be ample avenues to investigate into how they acquired such vast wealth having all "devouted" themselves to public service. What really takes the biscuit is the fact that Priyanka Gandhi lives in a govt owned high security bungalow and pays subsided rent, THIS shows me Modi isn't serious about doing away with this filth.

Again thats short term pressure that will give congress sympathy points among many ignorant naturally biased masses of "neutrals". Modi is more focused on long term Chanakya strategy. He wants to wean away their support base by a war of attrition and give them as little counterplay as possible. It is simply a decision he has made with the information inputs he has received from analysts who have studied the dynamics more intricately. We will have to wait and see if it was the correct ploy.

 

[dadeechi]

Does this $hit make sense to anyone else? How many ministries are now implicated by this one (relatively) minor deal? MoD, PMO, Fin Min, the list goes on and on and now the IAF's HQ?

Someone is having a good laugh here, this just isn't organic, you don't go from extremes like this. If something seems too good to be true it probably is. I'm more worried about what this circus is attempting to divert attention away from.

@Dash @Levina @ranjeet @Star Wars @PARIKRAMA @anant_s

That's exactly how things operate.

It's easy to prove that someone took 10,000 as bribe on a 100,000 project but it is almost impossible to prove that someone took 200,000 bribe on a 100,000 project.

It's always going to be a long drawn web where you have dozens of people and projects involved to mask the trail.

Fact is, Augusta is not a case in isolation vis a vis Indian defence deals. What you stated as too hard to believe I think was the norm of the day. It was a case of everyone is bought off, so, there is no one to raise to questions.
Before, even the opposition was compromised, like how ABV let the family off the hook. Unfortunately for the congees, they have at helm the person whom they maligned to such an extent that there is nothing congees can do to sway him.

I know for a "fact" that Armed forces are as corrupt as any other govt body.

Now coming to what Modi will decide to do with this is anyone guess...
Last thing anyone including Modi want is destruction of Congees. BJP says Congress Mukhs Bharath but they are very aware of the dangers a vacuum presents. At best I believe BJP is aiming for Gandhi Mukth Congress.

This looks to be beginning of BJP offensive against the opposition after a fairly dull 2015.
Bringing in compromised media into this is a great move. I am already seeing the usual presstitutes scurrying to hide in their bushes

1) SG Mukt Congress is as good as Congress Mukt Bharat as all the people who had base of their own have already left Congress (Pawar, Mamata)

2) With regards to the vacuum, that place would be taken by erstwhile NDA & UPA allies as BJP gets strong enough to form governments on it's own. This is already happening with SS, JD(U), BJD, SAD etc.

 

[sathya]

why did BJP remove the company from blacklist?

@Abingdonboy @ranjeet


will you answer the above question?
Just curious!

If I remember correctly , special rule was made
So that spares and other weapons can be bought for the navy which otherwise would jeopardise the Navy operational capability..
But no new weapon deal can be made..

This is for our own defence forces benefit , by not shooting at own foot.

 

[Pandemonium]

I still cant understand/digest how a lady from a village in rural italy, who knew absolutely nothing about india or indian politics , became the de facto head of the country for ten damn years . Along with all the massive corruption cases she also gave us one of the worst tragedies in the history of modern india , a man with no equal , rahul baba . Jai ho

 

[Ind4Ever]

Who the he'll these Congress thinking about themselves. Bloody we need to hang these leaders and cancel their Passport etc. Playing and compromised National security of 1.2 billion Indian. This family is the reason for huge problems in India Today. Time to take all their property and give it to poor needy people of India equally

 

[sathya]

There is not much use in talking about past, how UPA ruined things..

We have to focus on present situation , so that nothing of that sort is repeated..

 

[Dash]

AFAIK half the value of the deal has been paid (never to be returned) for 12 AW-101s, training (I think Palam might even have a AW-101 full motion simulator), spares and other support packages. Pilots and ground crew were trained on the type, spares were delivered etc etc.


Again, I am having a VERY hard swallowing the media version, the levels of sensational behaviour keep increasing with every day. How did all of this go unnoticed? It just doesn't add up, this is VERY poltical.


Either way, the democratically elected PM of one of the world's most powerful (and richest) nations who is also head of his government's nuclear command authority continues to fly around on 30+ year old junk.

India is just inviting disaster.


Does this $hit make sense to anyone else? How many ministries are now implicated by this one (relatively) minor deal? MoD, PMO, Fin Min, the list goes on and on and now the IAF's HQ?

Someone is having a good laugh here, this just isn't organic, you don't go from extremes like this. If something seems too good to be true it probably is. I'm more worried about what this circus is attempting to divert attention away from.

@Dash @Levina @ranjeet @Star Wars @PARIKRAMA @anant_s

I have already replied to you on this thread or other which I don't remember, but this one is a big drama play and I hate to say its mudslinging starting from BJP after a honest but failed attempt fro the party to get congies fall back in line.

A reason why they had to unleash Subramaniam Swamy in RS.

The bottom line still remains intact. And the complexities of politics for enthusiasts like you makes it harder for me to explain why,what,how all this happened.

As @MilSpec said congress made some eyewashing blunders in some of the biggest deals and then BJP frustrated with their lack of support is unleashing the salvo one after other.

Won't say its matured politics but we have entered murky water now while the lotus is far away.

@Abingdonboy buddy its simple.

BJP- development agenda.
CONG- Populist agenda.

BJP- ur agenda is shit
CONG- We will make you shit

BJP- Eat shit now.

If you are talking about Bofors scandal, they (Gandhi family) had to go into hiding politically for almost 10 years (during the PVNR era and BJP v1.0 rise).

Now any such hiding in response to the multiple scandals coming up now will mean the congress party doesnt survive in its current guise quite simply put. They have to confront head on (no other option)...and I don't think they can win that either in the long run....S. Swamy like you said will make sure enough sticks to them, he is quite excellent at that.



I thought they already petitioned CBI for a report on the matter? I would imagine once the initial CBI report is made, CBI will then delve into the nitty gritties.



Again thats short term pressure that will give congress sympathy points among many ignorant naturally biased masses of "neutrals". Modi is more focused on long term Chanakya strategy. He wants to wean away their support base by a war of attrition and give them as little counterplay as possible. It is simply a decision he has made with the information inputs he has received from analysts who have studied the dynamics more intricately. We will have to wait and see if it was the correct ploy.

It won't help if the educated mass is so dumb.
The correct chanakya strategy is to remain in power to exert power. When you can't then it is useless...

Modi wants finish SAS bahu in one episode and that will be the end of it. @Spectre was right.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

these Western companies are real scoundrels
the way they view the East is really hurting. they use every shameful tactic to secure their sale while their leaders and their analysts scold us for being poor, corrupt and unworthy

and teach us morality and transparency and then shove the transparency surveys on our faces. but their own big wigs break all rules.. American aviation companies are no better and companies like Lockheed is known to use unfair means to sideline and bankrupt its western counterpart companies.


sadly these companies know that they will find people in the third word who can be bought through different means at the expense of their countries. apart from some token fines... these companies are allowed to work since they bring money for their western governments.
it really enrages me.. French, Italians , British or Americans.. they are no better than us but we still have to listen to their lectures of morality

 

[Levina]

What UPA did was, when a Scam was exposed they began blacklisting and cancelling orders, not only to wash there hands off, and protect the corrupt officials, Tatra and recovery vehicle was the prime example.

Interesting!
But then why did Parikkar challenge congress to show the orders?
I am sure he won't like to be embarrassed publicly by congress.

 

[MilSpec]

Interesting!
But then why did Parikkar challenge congress to show the orders?
I am sure he won't like to be embarrassed publicly by congress.

As I said "began Blacklisting", doesn't mean completed the process, They wanted the same leeway that BJP utilized in practice.
What UPA and Antony baba did, was pretty much covering there behinds if the crap hit the ceiling, and still have a spill way open if situations like "running out of ammo" came around.

What AK Antony and Sonia Gandhi has done to Indian Defence borders treason one military chief decides to do a document leak.
Under UPA there was massive overt and covert corruption, in most of the deals.

 

[ranjeet]

I heard today in one of the debates that there were no trials of Agustawestland helicopters before the deal was signed.

 

[Spectre]

As I said "began Blacklisting", doesn't mean completed the process, They wanted the same leeway that BJP utilized in practice.
What UPA and Antony baba did, was pretty much covering there behinds if the crap hit the ceiling, and still have a spill way open if situations like "running out of ammo" came around.

What AK Antony and Sonia Gandhi has done to Indian Defence borders treason one military chief decides to do a document leak.
Under UPA there was massive overt and covert corruption, in most of the deals.

I thought there no major deals under UPA 2. Saint Anthony refused to bless any deals even at the risk of unprecedented capability deterioration just so that his legacy remains untarnished.

NDA Govt however has a dubious legacy of previous NDA govt, we all remember George Fernandese and the whole sale mockery of those desperate times don't we. Let's see if this one does any better, except for the hyper expensive helos and some artillery deals I can't say we have achieved much.

I heard today in one of the debates that there were no trials of Agustawestland helicopters before the deal was signed.

Ask Brajesh Mishra, trials have been going on since that time.

 

[Skillrex]

Well.. as for common man like me i feel nothing will happen.. this will drag on for few more days/months and finally die down with no result.. and gandhi's will make Tyagi a scapegoat.
but as an Indian.. i want every congress person should be put behind bars for rest of his./her life from Sonia, Pappu to every congressi chaprasis out there.. Congress are now weakest, and should be totally destroyed beyond any hope for comeback.

 

[MilSpec]

these Western companies are real scoundrels
the way they view the East is really hurting. they use every shameful tactic to secure their sale while their leaders and their analysts scold us for being poor, corrupt and unworthy

and teach us morality and transparency and then shove the transparency surveys on our faces. but their own big wigs break all rules.. American aviation companies are no better and companies like Lockheed is known to use unfair means to sideline and bankrupt its western counterpart companies.


sadly these companies know that they will find people in the third word who can be bought through different means at the expense of their countries. apart from some token fines... these companies are allowed to work since they bring money for their western governments.
it really enrages me.. French, Italians , British or Americans.. they are no better than us but we still have to listen to their lectures of morality

I would disagree.

Right now I have about few mil of capital equipment acquisition under my belt. Not in one instance i have come across the intent to corrupt or malafide.
When dealing with international clients the idea is quite simple The americans atleast will extend you a price that covers their target margin, if there is need for commissions, they will simply add it into their price.
If we want to buy 1000 units of Barret m82 for say 10K each, if we ask for a 20% commission, they will charge you 12K.
the onus is upon us.

I thought there no major deals under UPA 2. Saint Anthony refused to bless any deals even at the risk of unprecedented capability deterioration just so that his legacy remains untarnished.
NDA Govt however has a dubious legacy of previous NDA govt, we all remember George Fernandese and the whole sale mockery of those desperate times don't we. Let's see if this one does any better, except for the hyper expensive helos and some artillery deals I can't say we have achieved much.

I dont care about UPA 1 or 2, I am quite skeptical on Tatra Vectra, Augusta Westland, Smerch, and the WZT 3M. AT11 Atgms,

I don't see any legacy shared by Modi government of the NDA- Atal bihari Government. The main drivers of this government is quite different. Some aspects I might not be a fan of, but in general, my hope is by the end of second term of Modi, some politicians who leveraged national security for monetary and political gains will surely go to Jail.As far as deals under Modi, we will revisit in 2017.