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Some disscussion between me & Kasmiri guys(ex friends now I guess)

RISING SUN

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KG stands for Kashmiri guy. It's today's discussion with him, wanted you folks to share your thoughts & comments. There was one more Kashmiri guy whose comments were automatically deleted in the end when I reported him in Facebook.
Here it goes.

KG 1

Ya allah please help kashmiri muslims n give us strength so that we can have justice from indian corrupted pupets .....afzal goru in sha allah u will be in jannat in sha allah allah will bless u n give strength to ur family :-(



Me
'The militants had the home ministry and special Parliament label'

Kanchana Suggu in Mumbai

Three Mumbai MPs offer their reactions on Thursday's shocking attack

Ram Naik
BJP MP from Mumbai North and Union Petroleum Minister

The firing started at about 1120. Today the House was adjourned at about 1105 because of the Opposition's obstructive attitude. MPs were demanding (Defence Minister) George Fernandes' resignation and there was too much noise inside Parliament.

After Parliament was adjourned, (Railways Minister) Nitish Kumar and I had a discussion with Fernandes in his room. After the discussion, Nitish Kumar and I went to his (Nitish Kumar's) room. That was when the firing started.

At first people thought that they were crackers. We thought it was a marriage in the vicinity. But then we realised it was firing. It lasted for about 25, 30 minutes.

There are three entrances to the main building. Gate 12 from where the chairman of the Rajya Sabha (the vice-president) enters, Gate 1 from where members of Parliament enter and Gate 5 from where the prime minister enters.

The firing took place outside all the three important gates. But the militants could not enter the Parliament building. They were checked at the gates itself. When firearms and a bomb were found on one of the militants, the police started firing.

The car was allowed into the Parliament premises which is large and open. They were not allowed inside the main building. There are special Parliament labels for MPs and all the staff who require to come into the premises.

The militants had the home ministry's label and also the special Parliament label. How they got these labels is going to be inquired into. But I guess these labels can be printed anywhere. They also wore the Delhi police uniform.

I think because they had uniforms on and because they had the required labels, their car was allowed inside. But when the weapons were found on them, the security guards immediately gunned them down.

The cross fire lasted about 30 minutes. All of us were advised to stay inside our rooms. I was in Nitish Kumar's room which is next to Fernandes' room. We were about 20, 25 feet from where the firing took place.

Prime Minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee's room is next to Fernandes' room. He had already left the building before the firing started. (Leader of the Opposition) Sonia Gandhi had also left.

There were about 150 MPs in the central hall of Parliament. We were inside for about one-and-a-half hours.

If Parliament's security was lax, the terrorists would have been inside the building. This has only brought home the suffering we have been going through because of terrorism.

Jayawantiben Mehta
BJP MP from Mumbai South and Union minister of state for power

Today, I went to Parliament at 10:45. The session went on till 11:20 and I was back after that. Parliament was adjourned for the day because there was too much noise created because of the Kargil coffins issue and POTO (Prevention of Terrorism Ordinance). Usually the next session starts at about noon, but today it didn't happen.

I believe the firing began at about 11:40. I went to Parliament through Gate 4, which is the normal route. Those going into the Lok Sabha enter through Gate 4 and Rajya Sabha through Gate 12.

Main security ko badhai deti hoon ke unhone aatankvaadiyon se sangharsh karke unko nakaam kiya (I congratulate the security for having fought with the militants and overpowering them).

They were not able to enter the gate. All this took place outside the gate, but within the premises.

Usually there are a lot of Ambassadors with red lights coming into the Parliament premises. Those inside the car are not checked. They only see the car from outside, but the people are not checked.

We all knew Parliament was being targeted since September 11.

Sunil Dutt
Congress MP, Mumbai Northwest

I was not in Parliament today. I have just been given a new house in Delhi so I was doing the grihapravesh puja at my home. Today, the discussions in Parliament were going to be about the coffins which were brought from America and their high prices.

It was just when I was about to leave that I heard about the firing. I believe many VIPs and members of Parliament had already left the premised before the firing took place.

I think the security system of our country is a shame. People now say if it could happen in America, it could happen anywhere else. But that should not be an excuse. Recently, there was a blast in the Kashmir assembly. These things are happening everywhere. Which is why we should be more alert. We definitely should have a more vigilant security system.

We always enter through one gate and that has good security. We always felt the security is perfect. I think it is a huge failure on the government's part. If they cannot protect Parliament, how can they protect the nation?

rediff.com: 'We knew Parliament was being targeted since September 11'
rediff.com: 'We knew Parliament was being targeted since September 11'
Rediff.com - India, Business, Stock, Sports, Cricket, Entertainment, Bollywood, Music, Video and Breaking news, Rediffmail NG, Shopping
rediff.com: Three Mumbai MPs offer their reactions on Thursday's shocking attack


Me
Do you really think there was no attack on Indian parliament or he was not involved in it?



KG1
Ok .........wt abt purohit who blasted in maleygaon y ddnt indian law hang tht ashole who killed abt 50muslims in 1blast



ME
Justice may come late but its correct. Otherwise all those who were released would not have happened if Indian justice system wasn't transparent.


Me
Sad to know that still educated people believe in such kind of rumors.



Me
Purohit will also get the same treatment if he is guilty. Indian justice system takes time but is most of time right.

KG1
Indian justice systm is bg crap involved wd pigs showerd wd corruption everywhre

Me
Again brother the same thing why do people make difference among religion. It's our personal matter.

KG1
Y ddnt u read abt maleygaon blast n who was involved thre better read nw n tok aftr

Me
Yes corruption is there, there many faults but still it delivers the justice. No one is saying that these kind of evil things don't exit, they exist & its true.

Me
I know who is involved & who is not. That is why I said it may be late but it delivers the justice. Now see they are rusting in cells & waiting for their numbers for gallows.

KG1
Nw read indian history who effects india most ...r thy hindus r muslims in indian history ...shame on indians ...im ashamed tht m being called an indian

Me
What do you want to prove brother? Tell me in simple. As per me in our country religion is secondary, & it can't affect law.

KG1
Who cares when it comes justice to muslims indian justice system sucks bg ****

Me
Then you should know who is the CJI? He is a also Muslim.

Me
Many of the supreme court magistrates are Muslim also but they don't think from the religious point of view.


KG1
So what ...u tell me when u saw thre is justice to muslims ....n wt u indaiin ppl does to sikhs golden temple n all

Me
Bhai see, you should use logic. There are many situations when heart becomes the primary source for decision making and this is the kind of situation where we make bad decisions.


Me
If wait 1 minute I will post pics of my brother visiting the golden temple, even I went to Amritsar 2 months ago but wasn't able go there. So again it's not about religious kind of things. People were killed, it happens every where but they attacked our democracy symbol that was wrong.

KG1
Means infront of law humanity is nothng ...u killed sikhs its ok ok fr u ....indian army killed 2lakhs its ok ok fr indain system n cji ...thy r assholes

Me
They killed sikhs, they paid for it & many are paying still.

KG1
Dnt tell me u cnt go thre ..read history of khalistan n jalianwala bagh ......n better dnt want post fr ur things nw

KG1
Paying bullshit ...u was toking abt justice does thy got justice wht paying paying


Me
I went there but I had two days project so I had little time then I went to Wagha border, in return we had planned to go there but our head office had booked the ticket so wasn't able to go there. Clear?


Me

many haven't received justice I agree when did I said we don't agree. Even I have lost my uncle in those bad times so will I go blaming other community. It's not like that.

KG 1
Means u ddnt read abt golden temple history ...listen brother go read abt tht who does tht ok dnt tok blindly


Me
In Kashimr you are saying 2 lakhs people have been killed. Did you care to check how many were killed by the guns of security forces & how many from terrorists guns. No you won't. You can't drink bitter truth but we have.


Me
I know who did & who did not. Let me explain this.


KG 1
U ever read history of kashmir ...wt th hell u toking of justice n human rights n cji ...indian army killed 2lac ppl ...nw whre is th ******* justce ...assholes .....

Me
Bhindrawle was propped by congress before sikh militancy but when they started militancy, government tried to stop them. But it was not enough.


KG1
Pata hai ....u ever been to kashmir n saw wt indian army do ....shut ur bullshit if u want se cne kashnir ok

KG1
Thts y china ******* india ...ltte n maoists .....india is fucked frm everywhre


Me
They had built bunkers & surangs below the temple which was allowing them move freely. They AK47. Now do you want police to sit there n watch the show. That's why army was called in. Tanks were used & cleanliness of temple was destroyed. Central government is no saint but those militants were the big threat to temple more than army. Hope that you knew this part also.


KG1
Hahahah bg joke is temple havng value thn lives who made temple its mens who built temple nt temple build lives

Me
I am also coming to Kashmir this month, my family goes each year. There is nothing new which we don't know. You think that Kashmir is alien land for us but it's not believe me.



me
China cares only for money & CPC nothing more nothing less. If you want to talk on this sub I'm ready. But r u ready?


KG1
Then y indian pupets alws said is kashmir safe n blah blah ...go make thm understnd ok .....bullshit indians ..cowards ....


Me
You think that military is stationed there to kill people. Every family has black ship. Ours is also no saint. But you should see the difference when they punish such kind of soldier in open.


KG1
Ouh china cares fr money thn wt indians do n does u knw swiss banks havng 60%of black money frm india ...shame dnt u knw tht ....soon china will **** india n already china grabbed 32 kms frm ladakh side u knw tht ..dd indian govt mentioned tht bt we knw




Me
I know swiss account no of some people who have siphoned money there but I use them for constructive purpose. China knows clearly its limit that is why it is even considering Kashmir as India part. I know more about defense circles than you can't imagine.


KG1
Yea ofcurse thy steal things frm hre poor indians wht thy havng asholes ....thy got good life styke coz thy take money frm kashniri ppl thy r bullshit .....u knw thy steal gold plated jewelry shame n poor indians thy think git gold jewelry



Me
& you forgot to know that it's china who feared that they may get counter attack on their connectivity, that's why they have asked for a pact by which both military will not fire in any condition. Just 2-3 days old news. I thought it's better to let you know.



KG1
Ouk good fr u keep tht knowldge wd u ..till india got fuxked coz of thre own politicians n china n maiosts ltte



KG1
China dont fear bt stll gvng gap fr india to breath out ok ..dnt blve ur ******* media thy r nthng bt put indians in dark alws ..baby grow up n take ur head up n see th world ....



me
LTTE is dead, Moist are on the verge of ending due to cooperation of Bangladesh, Nepal, Bhutan, Myanmar & Mighty China. Now there is only one thing left where they can go, jump in the Bay of Bengal.




Me
Then you should know that 85% of military is stationed in Easter china to face Taiwan, Japan & ultimately US. They don't want to fight India.



KG1
Befre u was telling china fears of india .....(Me) dnt be childish india shd be ready fr china attacj soon...its mighty china who ddnt strt anythg yt ....n check indian map whre china grabs indian land on ladakh side worry abt tht bro



Me
We will eliminate all those fat & corrupt politicians from India 1 by 1.


KG1
Bt thy knw wth a pinch thy cn fight india coz indains r cowrds thy cnt fight china ...china grabbed indians land wt india does on tht issue



Me
I wonder some time you call Aksai chin a Indian land while its originally a part of J&K. You call J&K free from India then why do you call Aksai Chin a Indian land. Care to explain?



KG1
Really ashamed of india n indian judicial system n cji n human rights ...whre was whn indain army killed guys age of 15 to 25 last year....wt th heck u toking abt india nw ...bullshit


KG1
Its ur statement befre kashmir is part of india ...so y u taking kashmir sepatre whn it comes land grabbing.by china .....listen dude go n wash ur face be freh ok



Me
These most of children were no saint either. When you attack J&K Police this is what comes behind. They are not sitting there for amusement.



Me
My statement is whole J&K belongs to India.


Me
Land as well as its people.



Me
If you want I have the data how many people want to be with India & how many not.




KG1
Ouh thn u must knw fr wt kashmiri ppl was agetating abt ..whn police n army killed thm




KG1
We want be independnt kashmir .....



Me
Army didn't killed them, get your facts clear.



Me
It was state police & CRPF.




Me
I also want my independent flat, if you help me I will make you prime minter of my flat. Deal?
I remembered a discussion where Indian were mocking Pakistani posters in the same manner.


KG1
crpf is centrals force



Me
Just kidding, helps in relieving stress.



Me
Yes its central force but not military.




KG1
India is gtng fucked up coz of thre own politicians nt anybdy else .....n justice system is bg crap in india



me
It's same even worse in most of places on earth.



me
You talk about human rights. Have you though even once that Muslims are themselves the biggest threat to ISLAM. They have changed the basic building blocks of ISLAM in the name of cleanliness. See the condition of Western- north Pakistan, Baluchistan, Syria, Yemen. These are the most dangerous place to live, no respect for human lives leave alone human right.
 
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Indian Guy
KG1...I agree (Me) is talking with half knowledge........but tell me first ..are u from Indian side are pakistanis.....look at the entire conversation...u r only cursing Indians ...and giving them the worst of bad words...didnt expect from u...and 2nd Kashmiri guy...u beleive u follow islam ...so is that the way u are been taught to talk....what are this words..bitches..and pulling sisters into....and the M words...if u cannot understand the meaning of debate..stay away from it...make (Me) understand ur points with genuine words...and pls stop cursing INDIA...


Me
Indian guy I have said in earlier post already that they know other side of story then tell me exact story with proof but they don't want to participate in a fair discussion.
 
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Well mate. Read this conversation, but im not basing my opinions on it.

Kashmiri muslims are a scourge to every one in India. Even Muslims from the rest of India hate them. There was a time when they were peaceable, but Pakistan's ideology of extremism has made them wahhabi militant types.
 
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mate,many kashmiri youths have this thinking.
there are many reasons-1.indian army.yes,this is true.our army is there to guard loc and tackle militants.but then,there are bad apples everywhere.
2.the whole thing of hindu india having muslim kashmir and their belief in two nation theory.
3.pakistani propoganda.
4.pro pakistani leaders who believe in my point no.2
5.economic situation in kashmir.

Jammu and Kashmir Economy

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6.militancy

7.call for jihad against india by terror groups operating in ***.

and many such reasons.

but there are pro indian kashmiri muslims too,who realise that india is not solely at fault.also they know that india offers them much more economic and education oppurtunities which pakistan or an independent kashmir doesnt.

In Kashmir, nearly half favour independence | India Insight

and about being them a creamy layer or majority,then i think it is 50:50.

50%against india and 50%pro-india.and also the 50%may not love india,but they realise that being an indian will give them many benefits,which they wont enjoy in some other country.that is-india's economy,global respect,and of course its future as a major power in almost all spheres.this is what i think mate.


@KRAIT your comments would be valuable.
 
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@Abingdonboy, @acetophenol, @Skull and Bones, @Ajaxpaul, @Ayush, @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR, @Jade, @jbgt90, @nick_indian, @Rajaraja Chola, @RoYaL~GuJJaR, @Sergi, @SpArK What do you think folks about them. They are MBAs with commerce & engineering degrees. Is it really not good or are they just the creamy layer?

Well we cant talk based on one or two exceptions. I too have 2 kashmiri friends from Orkut days, now chat with them on gmail, and i did ask them about the situation during those bandh and stone throwing time.
He told, that these bandh are taking a toll on the people. People are tired of them. They now we had rejected separatist demand everytime we vote for elections. But likeminded people like Geelani are trying to change Kashmir's image once again. He have completed in Bsc. He says he wants to be with India or Independence. But definitely not with Pakistan. He also said he is a sufi and fears a Taliban like situation in Kashmir if it gets independence.

Another guy echoed, they wanted Independence, but now seeing the prosperity of India, it simply is foolish . Travels between two Kashmir side also have made us clear, the situation on the other side is not better. He is studying engineering from Manipal University. He wants Kashmir to be integrated with mainstream India. Absence of Integration is alienating them. His demand are perfect.

And trust me many Kashmiri muslim youths are studying in various colleges across India. Interaction with Kashmiri students is the only way to break their isolation. Companies should be allowed to set up industries in Kashmir. their demand is right. They want to be a part of economic development which is taking place all over India. They feel like neglected and fallen behind.

PS: both my kashmiri friends are muslims.
 
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Well mate. Read this conversation, but im not basing my opinions on it.

Kashmiri muslims are a scourge to every one in India. Even Muslims from the rest of India hate them. There was a time when they were peaceable, but Pakistan's ideology of extremism has made them wahhabi militant types.

completely agree with you. Kashmiri muslims are subhumans and rightfully hated by everyone. Even Kargili shias hate them. Forget Ladakhi buddhists and Jammu hindus. Many Jammu muslims hate them too. Kashmiri muslims are wahabized
 
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I am a Kashmiri Man.

A father, brother, son and husband.

I know that I can't have independent nation. Even if it is granted, whoever moves its forces out, other nation may make a move to occupy the land. We will have new LOC but no Independent state.

Since, independent state is out of scope, what options we have. Maximum autonomy ? Well politics will increase and Pro India and Pro-Pakistan lobbies will be the one who will gain as they can ask whatever they want in order to take "Autonomous" decision benefiting which side paid the most.

As for joining either India or Pakistan, I consider the facts that my coming generation will have opportunities especially in economic stability security and more chances of survival. If I am given the choice, to join one, I will look at how Muslims who moved from India to Pakistan were treated and how those who stayed back in India. At any given day, I will see I am safer at current place and I can provide my family basic needs easily.

I will also think that if they consider us Brothers, then why did they send terrorists who killed innocent men women and children ? They did kill their brothers in East, they killed us too. Should we trust them ? They just want water control. They don't love us as they pretend. Its a same mirage they shown to their Eastern brothers. They are safe and sound in their land separated from their brother.

I want acceptance and right to live. Would I be called Muhajir and bombed like Tribals if some terrorist hides in my village ? What if my kids will get AK-47 rather than Advance Knowledge -101.

Would my daughter safely go to school and not shot down. Will my mother be safe and not attacked by any drone ? Will my sister be married to a Engineering than an Extremist ? Hundred questions runs through my mind.

While I think about it and dodge off in sleep, planning about my next day, knowing that an Indian soldier (most probably a Hindu or Sikh) will be awake with his gun in out cold, protecting me from my so called Brothers.

P.S. I am Rajasthani Hindu. But the narrative is from perception of a Kashmiri. You can consider it case of Kashmiri Muslim or Pundit.
 
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Well we cant talk based on one or two exceptions. I too have 2 kashmiri friends from Orkut days, now chat with them on gmail, and i did ask them about the situation during those bandh and stone throwing time.
He told, that these bandh are taking a toll on the people. People are tired of them. They now we had rejected separatist demand everytime we vote for elections. But likeminded people like Geelani are trying to change Kashmir's image once again. He have completed in Bsc. He says he wants to be with India or Independence. But definitely not with Pakistan. He also said he is a sufi and fears a Taliban like situation in Kashmir if it gets independence.

Another guy echoed, they wanted Independence, but now seeing the prosperity of India, it simply is foolish . Travels between two Kashmir side also have made us clear, the situation on the other side is not better. He is studying engineering from Manipal University. He wants Kashmir to be integrated with mainstream India. Absence of Integration is alienating them. His demand are perfect.

And trust me many Kashmiri muslim youths are studying in various colleges across India. Interaction with Kashmiri students is the only way to break their isolation. Companies should be allowed to set up industries in Kashmir. their demand is right. They want to be a part of economic development which is taking place all over India. They feel like neglected and fallen behind.

PS: both my kashmiri friends are muslims.

manipal university?i am there too in engineering.

i completely agree with you mate.

Well we cant talk based on one or two exceptions. I too have 2 kashmiri friends from Orkut days, now chat with them on gmail, and i did ask them about the situation during those bandh and stone throwing time.
He told, that these bandh are taking a toll on the people. People are tired of them. They now we had rejected separatist demand everytime we vote for elections. But likeminded people like Geelani are trying to change Kashmir's image once again. He have completed in Bsc. He says he wants to be with India or Independence. But definitely not with Pakistan. He also said he is a sufi and fears a Taliban like situation in Kashmir if it gets independence.

Another guy echoed, they wanted Independence, but now seeing the prosperity of India, it simply is foolish . Travels between two Kashmir side also have made us clear, the situation on the other side is not better. He is studying engineering from Manipal University. He wants Kashmir to be integrated with mainstream India. Absence of Integration is alienating them. His demand are perfect.

And trust me many Kashmiri muslim youths are studying in various colleges across India. Interaction with Kashmiri students is the only way to break their isolation. Companies should be allowed to set up industries in Kashmir. their demand is right. They want to be a part of economic development which is taking place all over India. They feel like neglected and fallen behind.

PS: both my kashmiri friends are muslims.

manipal university?i am there too,in engineering.

completely agree with you mate.infact both our posts sound almost the same.
 
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@RISING SUN There is no doubt, especially in Kashmir Valley, there is a sizable portion of Kashmiri Muslims that have separatist mentality, but the good news is that this tribe is decreasing fast. Most are realizing the futility of this mentality. The pathetic conditions in Pakistan is helping change their mentality.
 
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nothing like this in jammu.
don't know what these kashmiri want???
but sure they won't get no independent land.
for god sake b8tches there is something called country.
iam starting hate this religion crap.

my god is great,no my god is greater than yours and the third one says hahaha..... you didn't prayed to my god then you would have known..............
 
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It doesn't matter what they think.J&K has other groups in majority who are pro Indian and I too belong to J&K.The state is not owned by Kashmiri Muslims and they are rightly getting the danda which they completely deserve from the Indian security forces.Where were these bastards when Hindus were thrown out of the valley...The freedom fighters only want to make the valley a place where "Islamic rules" are practiced and sorry for them that as long as India controls the land there is gonna be secularism and democracy..those who have a problem including our dear neighbors can pick up the gun and fight..The IA is there to welcome you...and politically,economically and stratergically I don't think anyone can snatch Kashmir from us so they are left to what they are best at.....boow wooow!!!
 
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I am a Kashmiri Man.

A father, brother, son and husband.

I know that I can't have independent nation. Even if it is granted, whoever moves its forces out, other nation may make a move to occupy the land. We will have new LOC but no Independent state.

Since, independent state is out of scope, what options we have. Maximum autonomy ? Well politics will increase and Pro India and Pro-Pakistan lobbies will be the one who will gain as they can ask whatever they want in order to take "Autonomous" decision benefiting which side paid the most.

As for joining either India or Pakistan, I consider the facts that my coming generation will have opportunities especially in economic stability security and more chances of survival. If I am given the choice, to join one, I will look at how Muslims who moved from India to Pakistan were treated and how those who stayed back in India. At any given day, I will see I am safer at current place and I can provide my family basic needs easily.

I will also think that if they consider us Brothers, then why did they send terrorists who killed innocent men women and children ? They did kill their brothers in East, they killed us too. Should we trust them ? They just want water control. They don't love us as they pretend. Its a same mirage they shown to their Eastern brothers. They are safe and sound in their land separated from their brother.

I want acceptance and right to live. Would I be called Muhajir and bombed like Tribals if some terrorist hides in my village ? What if my kids will get AK-47 rather than Advance Knowledge -101.

Would my daughter safely go to school and not shot down. Will my mother be safe and not attacked by any drone ? Will my sister be married to a Engineering than an Extremist ? Hundred questions runs through my mind.

While I think about it and dodge off in sleep, planning about my next day, knowing that an Indian soldier (most probably a Hindu or Sikh) will be awake with his gun in out cold, protecting me from my so called Brothers.

Are you a Kashmiri?
 
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This goes back to the point i raised yesterday, once you lose blood no matter what the appeasement does, the identity becomes rigid, man this sounds like quebec a la 1970. The kashmiri poster was rude to yo however considering amnesty internation human rights record in kashmir and dont deflect by pakistans, there are of thousand of kashmiri youth fighting for freedom and furthermore torture was used. I think in moral arguement your arguement is even weaker than pakistanis in kashmir issue, the legitamacy has to be built upon, continual army presence in kashmr will make them feel more alienated. I can however emphatize with him, after so much brutality in kashmir, its hard to keep a sane mind similar to ptsd, lots of comrades here struggling with it. And before someone spams me, look i have done my time and have seen people struggling tp recover from trauma, its hard to remain sane and needs alot of therapy.
 
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