'Soldier beheaded' in terror attack oustide barracks in Woolwich

[sankranti]

saffrons also claim to be religion of peace

Buddhism (saffrons) is certainly a religion of peace.

Hindus are encouraged to fight for what is right and to preserve all that is good and just in this world.

Which of course is the reason why Buddhism died and Hindus remained even after 800 years of Islam invasion.

BTW does that pictures of a few people holding a symbolic sword suppose to mean anything? Sardars carry a knife called 'kirpan' all the time ........ You need to get that head out of the sand.

 

[flamer84]

1. the west brought the war zones to those countries, hence responsible for the war zone. the people of baghdad and tripoli also did not consider their cities a war zone, did anyone ask them?


you have a totally indifferent attitude to the many thousands killed by western soldiers and weapons - "its just a war zone"


2. most of the muslim world was opposed to all of these wars - no one begged the west to come, total fabrication.

its funny that iraq never had a suicide bombing before america came, did you know that? so how can it be an existing probelm - and who made you an expert?

1.The difference is that western soldiers don't target innocent civilians as a deliberate war tactic.Coward muslim terrorists do that.There's no debate here,debating it is insulting to common reason.


2.If the legitimate govern of Kuweit is asking for help because they got invaded,help is given despite the fact that other muslim states are against because those are "muslim lands",you see,the real,civilised world thinks in legitimate sovereign states terms not a general caliphate.It's the kuweitis who would have to live under Saddam dictatorship not some random pakistani who is protesting thousands of miles away because "western soldiers set foot on muslim land".The same goes for other interventions to.

You conveniently forget to mention that the west bombed and killed white serbian christians to save muslims,that doesn't suit your agenda,does it?

 

[r3alist]

In this fight, we are a victim along with several other countries, Eastern or Western.

In fact we are a larger victim of these terrorists than most. And the biggest bulwark against them as well.

We have lost more lives to Islamic terrorists than the West.

Of course, the most lives have been lost by the Muslim civilians themselves.

There is no doubt that these terrorists are going to lose. They will unfortunately extract a huge cost. And there is no doubting who will end up paying most of that cost.

this is bush type rhetoric, making a bigger enemy then really exists - to justify bigger wars, more violence.

you have UNCRITICALLY mixed propaganda, media hype to come to the conclusion that there is some clash of civilisations, that there is infact an opposing civilization, its mostly overblown.

to give you a simple analogy - if west are so opposed to medeival thinking why are they hand in hand with the saudi's who are the biggest supporters of medieval thinking? if you on the side of the west you are also on the side of people who are ALLIED to the saudi's and created wahabism!

you/we are involved in low level rhetorical talk only based on PROPAGANDA, this is the dichotomy peple need to escape! what they do and what happens on operational level is another matter, so if you believe the propaganda you are unlikely to see what really happens, which is what counts.

 

[flamer84]

sir even in that you used to launch attacks on them than they kicked your ***** and threw you out from those areas and you will attack we will hit back and hit back hard

I was just pointing out the absurdity of delivering idiotic statements,by delivering another idiotic statement.You didn't like it to much,huh? My thoughts exactly.And no,in the event of a stupid ,hipothetical west vs muslim world war the only thing you will do is go extinct,and very fast.But you see,the west doesn't live by the mentality of "us vs them" only terrorist and terrorist apologists like you do that.

 

[Vinod2070]

this is bush type rhetoric, making a bigger enemy then really exists - to justify bigger wars, more violence.

I am not advocating any war or violence.

you have UNCRITICALLY mixed propaganda, media hype to come to the conclusion that there is some clash of civilisations, that there is infact an opposing civilization, its mostly overblown.

May be. The Islamic extremism is still a reality.

to give you a simple analogy - if west are so opposed to medeival thinking why are they hand in hand with the saudi's who are the biggest supporters of medieval thinking? if you on the side of the west you are also on the side of people who are ALLIED to the saudi's and created wahabism!

you/we are involved in low level rhetorical talk only based on PROPAGANDA, this is the dichotomy peple need to escape! what they do and what happens on operational level is another matter, so if you believe the propaganda you are unlikely to see what really happens, which is what counts.

I am no blind supporter of every act of "West" or "East" or even India.

In the fight against Islamic radicalism, I am on the side of people who are opposing them.

In their support for the extremism spreading Saudis, I am on the opposite side.

 

[r3alist]

1.The difference is that western soldiers don't target innocent civilians as a deliberate war tactic.Coward muslim terrorists do that.There's no debate here,debating it is insulting to common reason.


2.If the legitimate govern of Kuweit is asking for help because they got invaded,help is given despite the fact that other muslim states are against because those are "muslim lands",you see,the real,civilised world thinks in legitimate sovereign states terms not a general caliphate.It's the kuweitis who would have to live under Saddam dictatorship not some random pakistani who is protesting thousands of miles away because "western soldiers set foot on muslim land".The same goes for other interventions to.

You conveniently forget to mention that the west bombed and killed white serbian christians to save muslims,that doesn't suit your agenda,does it?

1. this "difference" - for who is that meant to be consolation? only yourself ofcourse.

because its happened to thousands of people. and when you make a mistake a thousands times its not really an accident. and if you are indifferent to this same mistake happening thousands of times it shows you are indifferent. your arguments fails your own litmus test of being logical.
secondly, there are some well documented cases of soldiers going out on revenge attacks on civilians.

finally, there are simply bound to be many things soldiers have done that we do not know about.

2.i was against the serbia bombings myself, the R2P doctrine is just liberal imperialism. if you think in terms of sovereign states then libya and syria would not be interfered with.

I am no blind supporter of every act of "West" or "East" or even India.

In the fight against Islamic radicalism, I am on the side of people who are opposing them.

In their support for the extremism spreading Saudis, I am on the opposite side.

so pray tell, if the western bloc as a whole is supporting saudi's then who exactly is there left to support in this fight you see?

and if the people who declare a war against medeival barbarism are in cahoots with those who support it how is this a legitimate war - it becomes a bit of a twisted joke doesnt it?

FIGHT THE WAR ON TERROR
FIGHT THE WAR ON TERROR

SAUDI's ARE OUR ALLIES
SAUDI's ARE OUR ALLIES

 

[Vinod2070]

so pray tell, if the western bloc as a whole is supporting saudi's then who exactly is there left to support in this fight you see?

and if the people who declare a war against medeival barbarism are in cahoots with those who support it how is this a legitimate war - it becomes a bit of a twisted joke doesnt it?

FIGHT THE WAR ON TERROR
FIGHT THE WAR ON TERROR

SAUDI's ARE OUR ALLIES
SAUDI's ARE OUR ALLIES

I agree with you to an extent.

This strategy is not going to work for long and there will be a showdown one day.

 

[flamer84]

so pray tell, if the western bloc as a whole is supporting saudi's then who exactly is there left to support in this fight you see?

and if the people who declare a war against medeival barbarism are in cahoots with those who support it how is this a legitimate war - it becomes a bit of a twisted joke doesnt it?

FIGHT THE WAR ON TERROR
FIGHT THE WAR ON TERROR

SAUDI's ARE OUR ALLIES
SAUDI's ARE OUR ALLIES

Agreed with you on this one.I never stated that the western way is the sole righteous way,it's better than the taliban/crazy indoctrinated mullahs/mad dictators way though.
Politicianism and mercantilism has many ugly faces not only in the west,that just doesn't justify killing a random guy on the street with meat cleavers.

 

[r3alist]

I agree with you to an extent.

This strategy is not going to work for long and there will be a showdown one day.

but how can you downplay this as a miscalculation? it clearly looks like the opposite to me - A CALCULATED move to be allies with suadi's, just as they support extremist - hard facts are there, hence this whole concoction of a clash of civilisations is lw level rhetoric, ignorant of the reality.


libya, syria, iran and pakistan are far more progressive and liberal compared to saudi - i know that might not be saying a great deal but libya and syria especially had prosperous and happy minorities - now look what has happened to their societies.....and supported by who?

who is backing the muslim brotherhood?

it has become such a joke.

 

[Vinod2070]

but how can you downplay this as a miscalculation? it clearly looks like the opposite to me - A CALCULATED move to be allies with suadi's, just as they support extremist - hard facts are there, hence this whole concoction of a clash of civilisations is lw level rhetoric, ignorant of the reality.

libya, syria, iran and pakistan are far more progressive and liberal compared to saudi - i know that might not be saying a great deal but libya and syria especially had prosperous and happy minorities - now look what has happened to their societies.....and supported by who?

who is backing the muslim brotherhood?

it has become such a joke.

I don't know if it is miscalculation or short-sightedness or something else.

I don't exactly look at the likes of LET, LEJ and sundry others as coming from a "progressive and liberal" country. May be they are compared to "Saudi" but that is not really saying a lot.

All these countries have decades of dictatorship, sectarian warfare and much more.

And I am obviously not a big fan of the Islamists looking for kaffir scapegoats for all that is wrong with the Islamic world.

Take responsibility. The millions of Muslims killed in inter-Muslim fights over the last few decades are not all others' doing.

 

[r3alist]

I don't know if it is miscalculation or short-sightedness or something else.

I don't exactly look at the likes of LET, LEJ and sundry others as coming from a "progressive and liberal" country. May be they are compared to "Saudi" but that is not really saying a lot.

All these countries have decades of dictatorship, sectarian warfare and much more.

And I am obviously not a big fan of the Islamists looking for kaffir scapegoats for all that is wrong with the Islamic world.

Take responsibility. The millions of Muslims killed in inter-Muslim fights over the last few decades are not all others' doing.

again, i ask, does such a deep friendship happen by chance? ofcourse not.


i said compared to saudi they are, point is if you are against that type of society, then why make allies with saudi;s, why give saudi's a free pass?

clearly there is a massive contradiction you cannot answer.

millions killed interfaith over past few decades?

just tell me how much interfaith killing was going on in syria and libya over last few decades?

 

[livingdead]

This thread is already 23 pages. Is there still something to discuss specific to topic.. @Aeronaut @nuclearpak

 

[Vinod2070]

again, i ask, does such a deep friendship happen by chance? ofcourse not.

I don't think it is a "deep friendship". More of a "you scratch my back and I scratch yours".

The world needs the Saudi oil for now. As soon as that changes, Saudi will be dumped.

i said compared to saudi they are, point is if you are against that type of society, then why make allies with saudi;s, why give saudi's a free pass?

clearly there is a massive contradiction you cannot answer.

I think I answered it above.

millions killed interfaith over past few decades?

just tell me how much interfaith killing was going on in syria and libya over last few decades

Libya and Syria were under the iron grip of megalomaniac dictators. The "peace" there was artificial.

Just like Iraq was apparently "peaceful" during Saddam's time. The Shia were kept in line and the Kurds were gassed when they got too inconvenient.

As soon as Saddam was removed, the sectarian violence came to the fore. Same is happening in Syria.

Libya I don't know much about, but it may again be due to the tribal differences and the typical Arab persecution of the native Africans.

The violence is ultimately an expression of the fissures within these societies.

 

[Jango]

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