Sneak preview of pragmatic China policy

[Chinese-Dragon]

Or we can argue for the sake of arguing.

Anyway, time to get back to the thread topic.

If India truly is a "status quo power" (as they claim), then they should make an open offer to China, and put it all over the news.

Recognition of AP in return for recognition of Aksai Chin, just like we offered before.

But then how will India justify their defence spending? They need to keep the dispute alive, they can't justify such a large budget based on Pakistan alone.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian-defence/41644-chinese-aggression-good-indias-defence.html

 

[ksgokul]

We don't recognize lines drawn by the Western colonialists.

And it certainly doesn't impress us when India uses these same Western colonial lines to advance their territorial claims. It just seems like India is trying to follow in the legacy of the British Raj.

Then why should China make a statement that they don't have any territorial disputes with India?

As for your other point, the Tibetan government in exile was carrying out operations against China while being hosted on Indian soil, like the LTTE was. Which obviously was the point of hosting them in the first place, despite all the "bhai bhai" rhetoric (which coincidentally only came from the Indian side).

The point is India did not actively support them. But if you are asking why India allowed such activities on its soil, it can at the max admitted as a mistake of negligence. But i see that you are evading some of the questions i asked you.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Face it guys, without the "China threat"... India's current slow pace of military modernization, would have been going nowhere at all.

You need us as a boogeyman to push your military modernization.

But we don't need India as a boogeyman, since there is no need for us to justify our defence budget to anyone in the first place.

The point is India did not actively support them. But if you are asking why India allowed such activities on its soil, it can at the max admitted as a mistake of negligence. But i see that you are evading some of the questions i asked you.

Ask me any questions you want.

And India hosting our largest separatist group on their soil in 1959.... was 100% intentional. You don't do something like that by accident.

Same with the Forward Policy.

 

[ksgokul]

If India truly is a "status quo power" (as they claim), then they should make an open offer to China, and put it all over the news.
Recognition of AP in return for recognition of Aksai Chin, just like we offered before.

May be true. But we don't know yet whether China is fine with that. All i am saying is that Indian public won't raise it as an issue, if the political class maintains the Status Quo.

But then how will India justify their defence spending? They need to keep the dispute alive, they can't justify such a large budget based on Pakistan alone.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian-defence/41644-chinese-aggression-good-indias-defence.html

Come on. Why should we even justify our defence spending to China? Seems like some superiority complex coming into play.
But i can say one thing for certain. If it is not for the 1962 war, India would not be spending so much on military. It is the fear of China that keeps some of our Politicians deliver their duties to the nation. So Chinese Threat is a blessing in disguise for India.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

It is the fear of China that keeps some of our Politicians deliver their duties to the nation. So Chinese Threat is a blessing in disguise for India.

Well then you agree with me.

That being the case, why on Earth would you want to solve the border dispute with China?

Even with the "China threat", India's pace of military modernization is painfully slow, as revealed by General Singh.

But if the China threat was gone, then do you trust your politicians to modernize your military out of "duty" and "patriotism"? India's military would be going nowhere right now.

It is the fear which keeps them motivated.

 

[ksgokul]

Well then you agree with me.

That being the case, why on Earth would you want to solve the border dispute with China?

Even with the "China threat", India's pace of military modernization is painfully slow, as revealed by General Singh.

But if the China threat was gone, then do you trust your politicians to modernize your military out of "duty" and "patriotism"? India's military would be going nowhere right now.

It is the fear which keeps them motivated.

I think you can understand, what i am trying to say. The political class would like to reduce the threat and solve the problem. In the mean time, the perception of Chinese threat is a blessing in disguise.

Even if the border dispute is resolved, i suppose the threat perception will remain. Things like "String Of Pearls", "Support to Pakistan", "Stand on Kashmir" etc. So the blessing continues.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

I think you can understand, what i am trying to say. The political class would like to reduce the threat and solve the problem. In the mean time, the perception of Chinese threat is a blessing in disguise.

Even if the border dispute is resolved, i suppose the threat perception will remain. Things like "String Of Pearls", "Support to Pakistan", "Stand on Kashmir" etc. So the blessing continues.

Maybe.

But the bottom line is that India is a democracy, they need the "China threat" to push their military modernization.

China is not a democracy, we can raise our defense spending as much as we want without having to justify it to the vote banks. And regardless, we have bigger fish to fry on our Eastern side.

So India benefits more from the China-India border dispute than we do. Which is why China offered to recognize AP in exchange for recognition of Aksai Chin, but India won't accept it.

 

[ksgokul]

Maybe.

But the bottom line is that India is a democracy, they need the "China threat" to push their military modernization.

China is not a democracy, we can raise our defense spending as much as we want without having to justify it to the vote banks. And regardless, we have bigger fish to fry on our Eastern side.

So India benefits more from the China-India border dispute than we do. Which is why China offered to recognize AP in exchange for recognition of Aksai Chin, but India won't accept it.

First of all, i acknowledge your knowledge superiority over me in India-China History. In fact i followed your postings to gain whatever knowledge i have. It was nice to have a good discussion with you. I will sign off here.

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

Maybe.

But the bottom line is that India is a democracy, they need the "China threat" to push their military modernization.

China is not a democracy, we can raise our defense spending as much as we want without having to justify it to the vote banks. And regardless, we have bigger fish to fry on our Eastern side.

So India benefits more from the China-India border dispute than we do. Which is why China offered to recognize AP in exchange for recognition of Aksai Chin, but India won't accept it.

In any government that's not an absolute monarchy, public opinion strongly constrains government action. Any increase or decrease of the military budget today involves literally thousands of deals and lobbyists and there's big interests on both sides. Even North Korea is constrained by public opinion of its own making. For example, North Korea is immune to a military coup. Even if the generals wanted to do a coup, they know that public opinion would destroy them soon after.

 

[raavan]

Like I said, we already made that offer before. Recognition of AP, in exchange for recognition of Aksai Chin.

But Nehru wanted BOTH territories. And instead of reaching a compromise with us, he started the Forward Policy.

nehru was a effing douche bag....gandhi made a big mistake there

 

[illusion8]

nehru was a effing douche bag....gandhi made a big mistake there

Amen to that, at least as far as India China relations goes.

 

[kevinx]

Given the current nationalist sentiment domestically, it is better to keep diplomacy underwater.
That rule holds for democratic country too. After all, domestic agenda should be decided by people, while in terms of international relations, there are more dirty deals, power-wrestling in place. Even US Constitution gives the power to sign treaty to executive branch of federal govt (i.e. POTUS) only.

Nevertheless, confirm current actual border would be wise, it is hardly imagine to evacuate Aruna Pradesh people from the land they've lived so long. There is no point to press a claim on a highly-populated land when people there are generally so foreign to us.

 

[doidoi2]

Aksai Chin and Arunachal Pradesh are deserted lands that don't really matter in the grand scheme of things. It's stupid to let such useless pieces of land get in the way of good relations between countries.

The lands should be divided amongst the lines of actual control and stay that way, forever.

 

[Tractor]

Given the current nationalist sentiment domestically, it is better to keep diplomacy underwater.
That rule holds for democratic country too. After all, domestic agenda should be decided by people, while in terms of international relations, there are more dirty deals, power-wrestling in place. Even US Constitution gives the power to sign treaty to executive branch of federal govt (i.e. POTUS) only.

Nevertheless, confirm current actual border would be wise, it is hardly imagine to evacuate Aruna Pradesh people from the land they've lived so long. There is no point to press a claim on a highly-populated land when people there are generally so foreign to us.

The land of Arunachal is not so highly-populated and the people not so foreign to us,even Indian regard them Chineese.
AP is one piece cut off from China,Indian know about this and laugh on us for losing control of it.

Aksai Chin and Arunachal Pradesh are deserted lands that don't really matter in the grand scheme of things. It's stupid to let such useless pieces of land get in the way of good relations between countries.

The lands should be divided amongst the lines of actual control and stay that way, forever.

The land of Arunachal Pradesh is not useless,it's a large piece of land cut off by British India from us,we should call it a shameful thing.

 

[kevinx]

I know there are widely-existed discrmination on Eastern border Indians looks like Chinese.
Afterall, they are Tibetans. MacMahon line is drawn by British Raj, from Tibet local government, at that time, China lost control over whole Tibet.
IF the discrimination in India and the apparent better quality of life in our side of actual border line (in material terms) can't prevent Tibetans flee to Dalai Lama, what's the point to use coercion to force those people stay with us?
It is us need to learn how to build a diversified nation and continue the nation-building process that would accomodated ethnic minorities.
In the end, we'll compete with India, not in amass arsenals, insetad, say, who can provide those people better life and opportunities. If Tibetans live a happier life both materially and spiritually than Arunachal Pradesh guys, no one can have the basis to laugh at us. In that case, it would be India to be ashamed.

Before that, let's focus internally on how to make our very own country more livable.