Sneak preview of pragmatic China policy

[Sashan]

I don't see why India should worry about China's 'energy lane' because many countries in the Far East basically use the same lane from Middle East to their home countries.

But if you meant finding new suppliers from third countries then it's different matter. The fact is many countries now a day competing for the same resources are commercial competitions. It's a cut throat business but then it's normal.

The reason is the Chinese investments in SL, Gwadar and Seychelles, which makes India cautious. I believe China is having the same fear that India or US from Diego Garcia can choke the shipping lanes. Maybe resolving the border issue might clear off some of the smoke in the Indian Ocean.

 

[Fanling Monk]

The reason is the Chinese investments in SL, Gwadar and Seychelles, which makes India cautious. I believe China is having the same fear that India or US from Diego Garcia can choke the shipping lanes. Maybe resolving the border issue might clear off some of the smoke in the Indian Ocean.

Cautious India should be, but there is no need to alarm until China has intentions to build military base there, which I personally don't think so. It is the same that China invest heavily in The Caribbean, the US is not alarm but just keep an close eye on the developments.

We should wary of each other but then we should also give each other the benefit of doubts and deal with each other honestly and sincerely.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

I have always wondered what exactly is there in the mountains for 40% of humanity to go to war over?
Basically should finalize borders as they are.

Like I said, we already made that offer before. Recognition of AP, in exchange for recognition of Aksai Chin.

But Nehru wanted BOTH territories. And instead of reaching a compromise with us, he started the Forward Policy.

 

[ksgokul]

Like I said, we already made that offer before. Recognition of AP, in exchange for recognition of Aksai Chin.

But Nehru wanted BOTH territories. And instead of reaching a compromise with us, he started the Forward Policy.

You are right. But has that offer been made again( I mean after 1962 )?
On side note, Can you ever stop mentioning the Forward policy?

 

[shuntmaster]

The main beef that India has with China is Chinas military alliance with Pakistan, especially China giving Pakistan sensitive and strategic military technologies which are targeted at India. Most Indians feel that China-Pakistan alliance is primarily made to contain India within south-Asia.
On the other hand, the Chinese communist government cannot get over the fact that India gave asylum to Dalai Lama and the other persecuted Tibetans.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

You are right. But has that offer been made again( I mean after 1962 )?
On side note, Can you ever stop mentioning the Forward policy?

Why would we make that offer again? Especially after what happened last time?

In the 1960's we were in the worst possible position. So we were making compromises from a position of weakness.

1) We had just fought a war with the superpower USA in North Korea
2) We had just been alienated from the superpower USSR due to the Sino-Soviet split
3) Both the superpowers of the world were our enemies, and they (+ their proxies) had us completely surrounded on all sides
4) We had just emerged from the worst famine in Chinese history (Great Leap Forward, 1959-1961)

In that situation, we had no choice but to make territorial settlements that were not in our favour. And it was in that time period, that we solved all our "land-based" territorial disputes. Except with India.

Today, we are the strongest we have ever been vis-a-vis India. Unlike in the 1960's... today China's economy is four times bigger than India's, and growing faster too. Now that we are in a position of strength, it is much more unlikely to reach such a settlement. And more to the point, India isn't making any offers anyway.

 

[Sashan]

Today, we are the strongest we have ever been vis-a-vis India. Unlike in the 1960's... today China's economy is four times bigger than India's, and growing faster too. Now that we are in a position of strength, it is much more unlikely to reach such a settlement. And more to the point, India isn't making any offers anyway.

Taking India in isolation, India is weak vis-a-vis China. But 5 to 10 years down the road what if India aligns itself with U.S, Japan, Vietnam and Korea. I understand that China is working towards SCO but what if Russia decides to stay neutral due to its relationship with India and also due to the various partnerships between India and Russia?

Has China taken into consideration the above situation?

 

[ksgokul]

Why would we make that offer again? Especially after what happened last time?

In the 1960's we were in the worst possible position. So we were making compromises from a position of weakness.

1) We had just fought a war with the superpower USA in North Korea
2) We had just been alienated from the superpower USSR due to the Sino-Soviet split
3) Both the superpowers of the world were our enemies, and they (+ their proxies) had us completely surrounded on all sides
4) We had just emerged from the worst famine in Chinese history (Great Leap Forward, 1959-1961)

In that situation, we had no choice but to make territorial settlements that were not in our favour. And it was in that time period, that we solved all our "land-based" territorial disputes. Except with India.

Today, we are the strongest we have ever been vis-a-vis India. Unlike in the 1960's... today China's economy is four times bigger than India's, and growing faster too. Now that we are in a position of strength, it is much more unlikely to reach such a settlement. And more to the point, India isn't making any offers anyway.

I got it. Boss! The entropy in your reply above is zero. Those lines have been repeated so many times in your postings.

On topic, Indian perception about China changed a lot after 1962. Your reply seems to indicate that China has nothing to gain from indian relations, which i disagree. By your argument, US need not agree with anyone on anything, because their GDP is so high. I asked the question, because i remember vaguely someone has mentioned such a point. Anyways leave it aside.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Taking India in isolation, India is weak vis-a-vis China. But 5 to 10 years down the road what if India aligns itself with U.S, Japan, Vietnam and Korea. I understand that China is working towards SCO but what if Russia decides to stay neutral due to its relationship with India and also due to the various partnerships between India and Russia?

Has China taken into consideration the above situation?

Absolutely, yes.

Back in the 1960's, we had BOTH the USA and the USSR as our enemies. Both the superpowers of the world had us surrounded on all sides, and we had direct violent conflicts with both of them under the nuclear shadow of the Cold War.

Compare that to today. Today, we have co-founded the SCO with Russia, and are strong strategic partners with them. We even double-veto with them in the UNSC.

And we are also the biggest trading partner of America, as well as their banker. Many senior American officials were even proposing a "G-2" between America and China.

In the words of Hilary Clinton, "How can you be tough with your banker?"

U.S. again says China not currency manipulator | Reuters

WASHINGTON | Tue Dec 27, 2011 6:18pm EST

(Reuters) - The U.S. Treasury AGAIN shied away from labeling China a currency manipulator on Tuesday.

Can you see the difference between the situation in the 1960's vs. today?

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Anyway, if Indians want to make a fair offer, based on the spirit of cooperation, then they can do so.

But be quick about it, while "liberals" like Wen Jiabao are still occupying the seats of power in Zhongnanhai.

 

[Shardul.....the lion]

India _China should strive to resolve the border disputes and best solution seems which is stated in article.

Neither China can across Himalayas to India nor India can go through mighty himalayas in China.

India is a status quo power and will be ready to accept the LOC as border without exchange of populated lands.

Now its upto China to keep antagonoizing India or keeping friendly relations with India.

Funny thing is CHina and India are talking on border issues for 30 years, why does not it get resolved till now?

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

India is a status quo power and will be ready to accept the LOC as border without exchange of populated lands.

If you REALLY are a "status quo" power... then why did Nehru reject the offer to recognize AP in exchange for the recognition of Aksai Chin?

Surely that is exactly what you guys are claiming to want, i.e. to turn the LoC into the IB?

But when the time comes to make the actual decision, you guys always reject it.

 

[ksgokul]

If you REALLY are a "status quo" power... then why did Nehru reject the offer to recognize AP in exchange for the recognition of Aksai Chin?

Surely that is exactly what you guys are claiming to want, i.e. to turn the LoC into the IB?

But when the time comes to make the actual decision, you guys always reject it.

That was before 1962. India's military doctrine, foreign policy etc changed drastically after the 1962 clash.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

That was before 1962. India's military doctrine, foreign policy etc changed drastically after the 1962 clash.

You had fifty years after that to make another offer. And you had plenty of time to disband the Tibetan government in exile, and let them live out the rest of their lives peacefully, instead of using them for your political games.

Now the Dalai Lama has finally given up (i.e. your political chip has expired):

Dalai Lama: Tibet Wants Autonomy, Not Independence - Time.com

So why not make the offer again? Unless you want to find another political chip against us?

 

[Sashan]

Absolutely, yes.

Back in the 1960's, we had BOTH the USA and the USSR as our enemies. Both the superpowers of the world had us surrounded on all sides, and we had direct violent conflicts with both of them under the nuclear shadow of the Cold War.

Compare that to today. Today, we have co-founded the SCO with Russia, and are strong strategic partners with them. We even double-veto with them in the UNSC.

And we are also the biggest trading partner of America, as well as their banker. Many senior American officials were even proposing a "G-2" between America and China.

In the words of Hilary Clinton, "How can you be tough with your banker?"

U.S. again says China not currency manipulator | Reuters



Can you see the difference between the situation in the 1960's vs. today?

I do understand it is a different world than during the cold war time where it is black and white as far as partnerships and relationships are concerned.

But how do you think about these factors play in?

1. President Obama's newly announced foreign policy
2. U.S turnaround in economy
3. Again India's partnership with Russia
4. Japan though with a stagnant economy but with huge foreign exchange reserves
5. India's economy growth as well