Skills Gap in South Asia: Indian and Pakistani Youth Lack 21st Century Skills

[bananarepublic]

We lack basic ethics how do expect us to have good skillsets?

 

[nahtanbob]

May well be.

For the most of manufacturing boom, South China relied on people with just secondary education + some vocational schooling. The thing is, a lot of countries in Asia don't meet even universal secondary education coverage.

I myself taught highschoolers basics of electronics and mechanical engineering on the workplace, but those highschoolers were already on the level of people in first or second year degree program in the West.

When I lived in Canada, I was shocked to see people in uni having trouble with basic algebra, and that universities there spend a whole year on uplifting those people.

the fact is colleges in USA/Canada have a remedial program to correct math skills
i doubt china/india have such programs

We lack basic ethics how do expect us to have good skillsets?

basic ethics and good skillsets are generally mutually inclusive

 

[Bashido]

To be honest, in South Asia Pakistanis are the least skilled persons due to the fact we do not have an industrial base and our university standards are lowest and they are not developing the critical thinking in the students.
As an IT professional, I can assure Indians are much better in this field from many first world countries. They have skills and professional experience.

 

[Nilgiri]

Please...

Ummmm...and who are you?...have we talked before on this forum?

Then I have to take you credibly with that display pic and name? LOL....OK...sure.

All I'm pointing out to RiazHaq is according to his precious credit suisse study, India went from 3 times less median wealth to double that of Pakistan in the space of just 2 years.

I pointed out all the issues back then with the study but his response was:

"What @Syed.Ali.Haider and @Nilgiri need to realize is that they are both fooling themselves which is far worse than fooling others."

So I am just correcting the record here to people reading this...since RiazHaq popped up again making a thread and I felt like querying him about this before I forget.

No need to get yer panties in a bunch random stranger.

As for: "India-Pakistan is more similar in terms of living standards"

Yes we are so similar in the most basic demographic way obviously (which basically sets the mid to long term development trajectory for developing countries). You are far closer to us on it than some others, you are totally not a generation (15, 20, 25 years?) behind:

TFR:

https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SP.DYN.TFRT.IN?locations=PK-IN-GH

IMR:

https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SP.DYN.IMRT.IN?locations=PK-GH-IN

Population pyramid:

https://www.populationpyramid.net

Nah, nothing to see in all of that folks...and tackle some fundamental development debates. Best to cherry pick and when the window for that narrows drastically, dont try to introspect and change, say "equal-equal" at worst....because "Indonesia" . (Did you have a look at where Indonesia is in the wealth report compared to India BTW?)

Anyways I'm waiting to see if @RiazHaq answers.

 

[TeesraIndiotHunter]

As for: "India-Pakistan is more similar in terms of living standards"

Yes we are so similar in the most basic demographic way obviously (which basically sets the mid to long term development trajectory for developing countries). You are far closer to us on it than some others, you are totally not a generation (15, 20, 25 years?) behind:

TFR:

https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SP.DYN.TFRT.IN?locations=PK-IN-GH

IMR:

https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SP.DYN.IMRT.IN?locations=PK-GH-IN

Population pyramid:

https://www.populationpyramid.net

View attachment 588857


Nah, nothing to see in all of that folks...and tackle some fundamental development debates.

What's your main point here? You think the "core" problem of Pakistan is demographics? Indian TFR has reached replacement/below replacement and hence the surplus of working-age productive population will fuel its fast growth while Pakistan hasn't gone through that transition fully?

I am trying to understand your argument here. What fundamentals, in your view, are stopping Pak from similar growth trajectory of India or other 'star' developing countries? I am genuinely interested to see your main points (and not just Indo-Pak shit flinging as usual)

 

[doorstar]

Anyways I'm waiting to see if @RiazHaq answers.

he may or may not be just some American copy/pasting blogger trying to attract people to his site to earn a few dollars. he certainly isn't an economist nor an orator/debater.
but how does him being whatever he is, give a license to some street-foulers to abuse Pakistan?
some examples below:

Pakiland has again forged ahead of India on the Global Hunger Index

The only thing that they are repeating like a parrot is "27 Feb".

 

[Nilgiri]

he may or may not be just some American copy/pasting blogger trying to attract people to his site to earn a few dollars. he certainly ain't no economist nor an orator/debater.
but how does him being whatever he is, give a license to some street-foulers to abuse Pakistan?
some examples below:

I do not condone such language by my countrymen or anyone else. But you and I (and some others) know how this forum "works" sadly.

What's your main point here? You think the "core" problem of Pakistan is demographics? Indian TFR has reached replacement/below replacement and hence the surplus of working-age productive population will fuel its fast growth while Pakistan hasn't gone through that transition fully?

I am trying to understand your argument here. What fundamentals, in your view, are stopping Pak from similar growth trajectory of India or other 'star' developing countries? I am genuinely interested to see your main points (and not just Indo-Pak shit flinging as usual)

Hi I plan to maybe start a thread on it later in year...and also do an analysis of which development parameters are more credible (they are somewhat like an onion layering), which ones are not so credible and what their sensitivities are (regarding composite indices) etc. It's mostly related to how they are sampled and compiled by the data-takers and analysts.

Overall, my basic theory is that much of what we see operates in longer time frames (10, 20, 30 years)....so what a country did/prioritised a generation/cohort (or half a generation depending on your definition) ago has real bearing on stuff happening today. But everyone seems to miss that forest and rather discuss a few trees (of differing relevance) a lot of the time.....the "flinging" purpose as you mention.

So from that theory, my conclusion is in the end the final result will be the differences you see materialise in similar time periods (10 - 30 years etc down the road)...when things gather and solidify downstream in enough concentration. As engineer (working with fluids analysis a lot) this is known to me as a laminar flow (which has good steadiness and thus more valuable use for certain purposes) compared to a turbulent flow where there is too much noise. An electrical/comms engineer might also make a comparison with S/N ratio in a system. I go into some detail about it here (the laminar talk suddenly lit bulb in my head that I have referenced it here on forum before): https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/unem...-report-10-points.599631/page-5#post-11141019

That is also hopefully what countries (that are behind) can learn from too and apply correctional/emulation measures to themselves....i.e what I call as "indisputable" difference (enough space between two marathon race runners) like those that have really arisen say between China and India (and we can learn why).

But its also important to always realise there is no real finish line for this marathon, so you can always learn from those ahead and also behind you....to learn what you are doing right and wrong to improve your relative position for betterment of all. I do empathise much with what you say about endless 1% difference bragging being pointless.....and yes overall India and Pakistan are still far similar in relative "development terms" in the larger global portmanteau and context for sure. Many things Pakistan is ahead of course....point is for reasonable people here not to get too acerbic about such things...and treat everything as complete win/loss, that too get ultra-personal and/or over-applicable (to grand population sizes)....especially when we know individuals vary greatly....and our fundamental existence is as individual unit (and thus its important to treat other individuals in good faith by default).

I hope it can be somewhat learning experience for those interested in the topic. I will tag you there when I decide/commit on it. In meantime, you can tag me if you want in any related topics that pop up, if you want my 2 cents etc.

 

[RiazHaq]

Credit Suisse Wealth Report 2019

India Average Per Adult $2,127 Pakistan Average Per Adult $1,168

India Median Per Adult $596 Pakistan Median Per Adult $506.

https://www.credit-suisse.com/about-us/en/reports-research/global-wealth-report.html

Pakistan's wealth declined mainly because its currency devalued by 24% and its market cap dropped by 42%.


Much of the year-on-year variation in wealth levels is due to changes in asset prices and exchange rates. Exchange-rate fluctuations are frequently the source of the biggest gains and losses. However, exchange rates have been relatively stable over the past 12 months. Among the countries reported in Figure 3 (G7 countries plus China, India and Russia), the largest changes affected China and the United Kingdom – both depreciating about 3.5% versus the US dollar. Currency falls were modest elsewhere in the world, except for Turkey (–21%), Pakistan (–24%) and Argentina (–32%). Currency appreciation was even rarer, with Thailand (+8%) and Egypt (+7%) recording the biggest gains.


Equity prices showed greater regional fluctuations. Market capitalization rose in North America, but declined in much of Europe by an average of about 10%. Markets rose significantly in Russia (+15%), and by an even greater extent in Kuwait (+25%), Brazil (+35%) and Romania (+36%). In Pakistan, market capitalization dropped by 42%, compounding the impact of exchange rate losses.

 

[nahtanbob]

Credit Suisse Wealth Report 2019

India Average Per Adult $2,127 Pakistan Average Per Adult $1,168

India Median Per Adult $596 Pakistan Median Per Adult $506.

https://www.credit-suisse.com/about-us/en/reports-research/global-wealth-report.html

Pakistan's wealth declined mainly because its currency devalued by 24% and its market cap dropped by 42%.


Much of the year-on-year variation in wealth levels is due to changes in asset prices and exchange rates. Exchange-rate fluctuations are frequently the source of the biggest gains and losses. However, exchange rates have been relatively stable over the past 12 months. Among the countries reported in Figure 3 (G7 countries plus China, India and Russia), the largest changes affected China and the United Kingdom – both depreciating about 3.5% versus the US dollar. Currency falls were modest elsewhere in the world, except for Turkey (–21%), Pakistan (–24%) and Argentina (–32%). Currency appreciation was even rarer, with Thailand (+8%) and Egypt (+7%) recording the biggest gains.


Equity prices showed greater regional fluctuations. Market capitalization rose in North America, but declined in much of Europe by an average of about 10%. Markets rose significantly in Russia (+15%), and by an even greater extent in Kuwait (+25%), Brazil (+35%) and Romania (+36%). In Pakistan, market capitalization dropped by 42%, compounding the impact of exchange rate losses.

How can you measure wealth when there is so much tax evasion in both countries ?

 

[Nilgiri]

Credit Suisse Wealth Report 2019

India Average Per Adult $2,127 Pakistan Average Per Adult $1,168

India Median Per Adult $596 Pakistan Median Per Adult $506.

These figures are from 2000. 2 decades have passed since....please scroll down the pages (in report) some more.

Pakistan's wealth declined mainly because its currency devalued by 24% and its market cap dropped by 42%.


Much of the year-on-year variation in wealth levels is due to changes in asset prices and exchange rates. Exchange-rate fluctuations are frequently the source of the biggest gains and losses. However, exchange rates have been relatively stable over the past 12 months. Among the countries reported in Figure 3 (G7 countries plus China, India and Russia), the largest changes affected China and the United Kingdom – both depreciating about 3.5% versus the US dollar. Currency falls were modest elsewhere in the world, except for Turkey (–21%), Pakistan (–24%) and Argentina (–32%). Currency appreciation was even rarer, with Thailand (+8%) and Egypt (+7%) recording the biggest gains.


Equity prices showed greater regional fluctuations. Market capitalization rose in North America, but declined in much of Europe by an average of about 10%. Markets rose significantly in Russia (+15%), and by an even greater extent in Kuwait (+25%), Brazil (+35%) and Romania (+36%). In Pakistan, market capitalization dropped by 42%, compounding the impact of exchange rate losses.

So now you understand what I was telling you 2 years back (this was one of my many criticisms - there are others)?

I pointed out kazakhstan and Iran (both very high natural wealth, but low international financial market exposure) w.r.t India for a reason too in the 2017 report. I pointed you to the specific analysis and how credit suisse themselves said treat these numbers (esp for developing countries) with caution...and what the source of errors are.

But you kept saying I was being "misleading"...and the number is be-all end-all for 2017. So are you backing down from that now?

How can you measure wealth when there is so much tax evasion in both countries ?

It doesn't factor that much for median (average joe) wealth analysis since thats far more dictated by the Gini distribution (the way credit suisse does its study).

Also there are ways to estimate the "underground" wealth in the credit suisse report analysis. But it takes some reading of it...and honestly the overground wealth can also be criticized extensively if you know the larger sources of error and bias.

 

[ziaulislam]

Credit Suisse Wealth Report 2019

India Average Per Adult $2,127 Pakistan Average Per Adult $1,168

India Median Per Adult $596 Pakistan Median Per Adult $506.

https://www.credit-suisse.com/about-us/en/reports-research/global-wealth-report.html

Pakistan's wealth declined mainly because its currency devalued by 24% and its market cap dropped by 42%.


Much of the year-on-year variation in wealth levels is due to changes in asset prices and exchange rates. Exchange-rate fluctuations are frequently the source of the biggest gains and losses. However, exchange rates have been relatively stable over the past 12 months. Among the countries reported in Figure 3 (G7 countries plus China, India and Russia), the largest changes affected China and the United Kingdom – both depreciating about 3.5% versus the US dollar. Currency falls were modest elsewhere in the world, except for Turkey (–21%), Pakistan (–24%) and Argentina (–32%). Currency appreciation was even rarer, with Thailand (+8%) and Egypt (+7%) recording the biggest gains.


Equity prices showed greater regional fluctuations. Market capitalization rose in North America, but declined in much of Europe by an average of about 10%. Markets rose significantly in Russia (+15%), and by an even greater extent in Kuwait (+25%), Brazil (+35%) and Romania (+36%). In Pakistan, market capitalization dropped by 42%, compounding the impact of exchange rate losses.

the devaluation has no effect on PPP GDP
the 10+ inflation will quickly adjust the nominal GDP.

the mean income has no value in judging the standard of living it has to be median income

 

[RiazHaq]

the devaluation has no effect on PPP GDP
the 10+ inflation will quickly adjust the nominal GDP.

the mean income has no value in judging the standard of living it has to be median income

Credit Suisse Wealth Report wealth figures are based on prevailing currency exchange rates, not purchasing power.

 

[Paul2]

Guys, you started talking about skill gap, and now the discussion switched towards wealth gap

 

[Nilgiri]

Guys, you started talking about skill gap, and now the discussion switched towards wealth gap

Well wealth accumulation + deployment is 1st step of how you address skill shortage.