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Sino-German Affairs

i love the germans people, hope someday soon PLA can throw the polished germans men into gas chamber, also export all their blondie to africa or india. though i like germans, unfinished justice must be done by someone, they dare to reduce half of the jewish population, they should also dare to face something similar happened to them. indies men are really interested in blondie, i guess germans blondie is very marketable there, it will show the world the mature Sino-indies relationship too.

What makes you say that? Relationships depend on individual people and not looks alone. We have enough women of our own. Thanks for the 'blondie' offer though.
 
Rising Wages - Chinese Workers becoming more demanding and low-cost Producers fleeing away

Steigende Löhne
Chinas Arbeiter werden anspruchsvoller und Billigproduzenten suchen das Weite

Chinas arbeitsintensive Bekleidungsindustrie in den Küstenprovinzen, einst das Rückgrat des auf Export basierenden Booms der 1980er und 1990er Jahre, hat ein Problem: steigende Lohnkosten. Guangdong zum Beispiel, die an Hongkong grenzende Provinz und eines der Zentren des chinesischen Wirtschaftserfolges, hat kürzlich den gesetzlichen Mindestlohn zum dritten Mal binnen zweier Jahre heraufgesetzt, und zwar um 13,6 Prozent auf 1500 Yuan (182 Euro) im Monat. Das ist für europäische Standards nicht allzu viel, stellt aber manche Hersteller, der seine Produkte in Europa oder Nordamerika möglichst billig verkaufen will, vor erhebliche Probleme.

Bereits seit einigen Jahren gibt es unter ihnen eine Absetzbewegung. Betriebe ziehen entweder ins Binnenland um, wo die Löhne noch deutlich niedriger sind, oder gleich in neue Billiglohnländer wie Vietnam oder Bangladesch. Die in Hongkong erscheinende South China Morning Post berichtet von dem Beispiel der Firma Mainland Heatwear aus Shenzhen, einer Millionenstadt an Hongkongs Grenze, die in den letzten drei Jahrzehnten aus einer der ersten Sonderwirtschaftszonen entstanden ist.

Die in Hongkong registrierte Firma ist nach Angaben der Zeitung einer der weltgrößten Hersteller von Kopfbedeckungen und gerade im Begriff, 50 Prozent ihrer Produktion nach Bangladesch zu verlagern. Neue Fabriken würden bereits gebaut. In Shenzhen würden die Arbeiter mit durchschnittlich 3000 Yuan (364 Euro) im Monat nach Hause gehen und bekämen dazu noch ein kostenloses Mittagessen. In Bangladesh betrüge der Monatslohn hingegen nur 46 Euro.

Hinzu kommt, dass die Unternehmen in Shenzhen und anderen chinesischen Küstenstädten zunehmend Schwierigkeiten haben, ausreichend Arbeiterinnen und Arbeiter zu finden. Trotz der Lohnerhöhungen und Bonuszahlungen meldeten sich zum Beispiel bei Mainland Headwear dieser Tage nach den Ferien zum chinesischen Neujahr nur 65 Prozent der Mitarbeiter zurück.

Die haben anders als noch vor zehn Jahren heute inzwischen oft Alternativen. Bisher wurden Bekleidungswaren, Spielzeuge und ähnlich arbeitsintensive Produkte meist von jungen Wanderarbeiterinnen aus den ländlichen Regionen im Inland hergestellt, die in Schlafsälen auf dem Fabrikgelände lebten. Heute finden diese aber meist auch reguläre Arbeitsplätze in der Nähe ihrer Familien und ziehen diese vor.

Die chinesische Reserverarmee ist verschwunden

Nach Angaben der Economic Times gehen viele Fachleute inzwischen davon aus, dass China praktisch keine industrielle "Reservearmee" mehr hat. Die auf dem Land nicht mehr benötigten Arbeitskräfte seien bereits in den Arbeitsmarkt integriert. Daraus folgt, dass Arbeitskräfte auf absehbare Zeit rar sein werden, was wiederum interessante und durchaus positive Auswirkungen auf Chinas weitere ökonomische Entwicklung haben wird.

Zum einen entsteht daraus ein zusätzlicher Druck zur Steigerung der Produktivität, was gut für den Aufbau einer modernen Industrie ist. Außerdem haben die Arbeiter es unter diesen Bedingungen wesentlich leichter, höhere Löhne durchzusetzen. Und tatsächlich steigen diese noch schneller als die Mindestlöhne.

Höheres Masseneinkommen führt wiederum zur Steigerung der Binnennachfrage, was ganz im Sinne der Führung in Beijing (Peking) ist. Diese versucht unter anderem, auch durch Steuergeschenke an die Bezieher niedriger Einkommen die Inlandsnachfrage zu steigern. Im September 2011 wurde zum Beispiel der Freibetrag für die Einkommenssteuer von 2000 Yuan (242 Euro) monatlich auf 3500 Yuan (424 Euro) herauf gesetzt. Weitere Schritte sollen demnächst folgen.

Mit dieser Entwicklung folgt China dem Beispiel der asiatischen Tigerstaaten wie Taiwan, Singapur oder Südkorea, die in den vergangenen Jahrzehnten auch zunächst arbeitsintensive Exportindustrien aufgebaut hatten. Mit dem dadurch akkumulierten Kapital konnten sie schließlich ihre Industrialisierung vorantreiben, die Technologieleiter nach oben klettern und zu den reichen Staaten aufschließen. Ganz so, wie es China derzeit macht.

Das Besondere der chinesischen Prozesse ist derweil der Umfang der betroffenen Arbeitskraft. Der Fortzug der Massengüterindustrie kann gleich in einer Vielzahl von Staaten einen ähnlichen Industrialisierungspfad eröffnen. Außerdem ist der rasante Anstieg der chinesischen Einkommen auch eine gute Nachricht für die Lohnabhängigen in aller Welt, weil es den Druck auf ihre Gehälter reduzieren und mittelfristig das globale Lohngefälle abflachen wird.

China selbst hat allerdings in dieser Hinsicht noch einen weiten Weg zu gehen. Zwar wurde seit den 1990er Jahren die Zahl der Menschen, die von zwei US-Dollar oder weniger pro Tag auskommen müssen, um fast 70 Prozent reduziert. Aber noch immer sind es 208 Millionen Menschen, die auf diesem Niveau leben, das dem UN-Kriterium für Armut entspricht. 128 Millionen Menschen haben sogar weniger als einen US-Dollar pro Tag.

Titbits of the Article

• Minimum wages in Guangdong province rose 13.6 % to 1500 Yuan (182 €) per month
• In Shenzhen workers earn 3000 Yuan (364 €) per month on average plus lunch
• High pressure to raise productivity as real wage rises faster than minimum wage
• Many low-cost producers are moving to Vietnam and Bangladesh
• At Headwear, a large headgear producer, only 65 % of the workers return after CNY despite higer wages and bonus
• Most of them nowadays find similar working conditions in their home province near their family
• As the working "army" shrinks, this will bring a lot of opportunities for China's economic progress
• Higher income will lead to higher domestic consumption
• China's development resembles Taiwan, Singapore and SKorea starting with labour intensive export industry
• With the accumulated capital, China will advance industrialisation, climb up the technology ladder to catch up with the rich countries.

Steigende Löhne | Telepolis
 
Götterdämmerung, this thread shouldn't be turned into a mere german PR thread, filled with economic and commercial news to generate goodwill from chinese members when you know that there is still great room for improvement among german leadership and german public for serious political and strategic thought regarding sino-german relations. these economic stories in german you posted are way too much on the side of feel-good, and since these were posted primarily for chinese members, i consider it a very cheap and inequitable german tactic: to let chinese guard down when there is still rampant antisinic sentiment in germany fueled by merkel and CDU government

and the "diplomacy of values" that woman spoke of - what kind of **** is that? it is exactly the kind of sadistic-masochist self-compensatory victimized mindset that results from germany's post-war division and occupation, which china wasn't responsible at all, that merkel is now mobilizing among you germans in order to score some PR points against china. but since china was never responsible for the crimes committed against germany, it wouldn't take that **** from germany either: politically china owes germany NOTHING and has no duty to tacitly allow germany to play that moral preacher role just to heal the deep wound to germany psyche inflicted by anglo-americans.
 
Götterdämmerung, this thread shouldn't be turned into a mere german PR thread, filled with economic and commercial news to generate goodwill from chinese members when you know that there is still great room for improvement among german leadership and german public for serious political and strategic thought regarding sino-german relations. these economic stories in german you posted are way too much on the side of feel-good, and since these were posted primarily for chinese members, i consider it a very cheap and inequitable german tactic: to let chinese guard down when there is still rampant antisinic sentiment in germany fueled by merkel and CDU government

and the "diplomacy of values" that woman spoke of - what kind of **** is that? it is exactly the kind of sadistic-masochist self-compensatory victimized mindset that results from germany's post-war division and occupation, which china wasn't responsible at all, that merkel is now mobilizing among you germans in order to score some PR points against china. but since china was never responsible for the crimes committed against germany, it wouldn't take that **** from germany either: politically china owes germany NOTHING and has no duty to tacitly allow germany to play that moral preacher role just to heal the deep wound to germany psyche inflicted by anglo-americans.

Chill, mate! I think you are reading too much into my posts. ;)
 
Thanks for the encouragement, guys! :)

Today, the Handelsblatt, Germany's premier economic news made a very realistic report in regard to Merkel's visit to China.

China turns down Merkel with the Euro-Rescue

At the meeting with Chancellor Merkel, Primeminister Wen Jiabao gave no commitment of investing into the Euro bail-out package. The Europeans have to contribute more solutions to the problems.

China gibt Merkel bei Euro-Hilfen einen Korb

02.02.2012, 13:02 Uhr, aktualisiert 14:48 Uhr

Bei seinem Treffen mit Kanzlerin Merkel hat Chinas Premierminister Wen Jiabao keine Zusagen für Investitionen in den Euro-Rettungsschirm gemacht. Die Europäer müssten selbst mehr zur Lösung der Probleme beitragen.

PekingChina bekundet Zuversicht in die europäische Währung, plant vorerst aber keine Milliardeninvestitionen in den Euro-Rettungsschirm EFSF. Nach Gesprächen mit Kanzlerin Angela Merkel in der Großen Halle des Volkes in Peking forderte Wen Jiabao am Donnerstag die Europäer zunächst zu verstärkten Anstrengungen zur Lösung der Schuldenkrise auf. „Die eigenen Bemühungen sind entscheidend in dieser Frage“, sagte Wen Jiabao bei einer Pressebegegnung. Eine Zusage für verstärkte Investitionen Chinas in europäische Schatzanleihen zur Stabilisierung des Euros gab Wen Jiabao nicht. Er habe mit Merkel nur über den Rettungsschirm diskutiert, sagte der Regierungschef.

Wen sagte jedoch, dass China prüfe, ob es dem Internationalen Währungsfonds (IWF) zusätzliches Kapital zuführen könne. Er wiederholte, dass sein Land „Vertrauen in die Volkswirtschaften der Eurozone“ habe, machte jedoch keine neuen Zusagen für Investitionen in Anleihen der Stabilitätsfonds. Die Zurückhaltung des chinesischen Regierungschefs dürfte einen Dämpfer für Merkel bedeuten: Frische Kredite aus Ländern mit großen verfügbaren Mitteln wie China sind nötig, um dem deutschen Hilfsgeld den nötigen Hebel zur Rettung der Schuldenländer zu verleihen.

Premier Wen nahm statt dessen Deutschland in die Pflicht, zuerst selbst mehr Geld für die Eurorettung einzusetzen, bevor sich China engagiere. „Die EU-Schuldenländer müssen schmerzhafte Entscheidungen treffen“, sagte der Premier. Europa müsse ein klares Konzept vorlegen, wie die Krise zu überwinden sei. Es müsse erst seine "Hausaufgaben erledigen".

Ökonomen sehen die Aussagen Wens im Einklang mit der derzeitigen Linie Pekings. „Ich erwarte von Frau Merkels Besuch keinen Durchbruch, obwohl wir sehr optimistisch sind, dass Europa seine Probleme lösen kann“, sagt der prominente Ökonom Yu Yongding von der Chinese Academy for Social Sciences (CASS) dem Handelsblatt.

In der näheren Zukunft hänge das Verhalten Chinas gegenüber der Eurozone laut Yu vor allem von der Haltung Deutschlands ab. „Wir haben hier bisher wenig Bewegung gesehen“, sagt der CASS-Wirtschaftswissenschaftler. Das reiche Deutschland müsse mehr in Vorleistung gehen bevor das Schwellenland China sich als Helfer engagiere - sonst sei ein Einstieg auch psychologisch schwer vermittelbar. „China will keine Risiken eingehen“, betont Yu.

Außerdem wolle China lieber über internationale Institutionen wirken, statt direkt einzuspringen – daher die Erwähnung des IWF in Wens Aussage vor der Presse. Auch eine regionale Abstimmung sei erstrebenswert, sagt CASS-Ökonom Yu: China wolle zusammen mit anderen ostasiatischen Ländern handeln, die ebenfalls Nettogläubiger der westlichen Länder sind. Diese haben vielleicht nicht ganz so tiefe Taschen wie China, zusammen entwickelt Asien jedoch eine erhebliche finanzielle Schlagkraft.

Staatsbesuch: China gibt Merkel bei Euro-Hilfen einen Korb - International - Politik - Handelsblatt

Titbits of the article:

• China expresses confidence in the European currency
• For the time being, China won't invest billions into the EFSF
• Europeans have to make the efforts to solve their own problems
• China will examine whether to supply the IMF more money
• Wen said that Germany is obliged to give more money into the bail-out fund.
• China perfers to act through international institutions such as IMF
• China would also like to act together with other Asian countries

You guys have to read the comments. Some of them are just too funny and some of them are down to earth. My Indian friends would think, Germany is inundated of Chinese false flagges. :D

Kommentare zu: China gibt Merkel bei Euro-Hilfen einen Korb - International - Politik - Handelsblatt

02.02.2012, 13:33 Uhr
Anonymer Benutzer: Petra

Die Chinesen sind clever und keine träumerischen Gutmenschen! Wie so oft wird die Evolution zeigen, welches System besser ist. Leider ist es für uns dann zu spät...

The Chinese are clever and not some dreaming good-doers! As so often, evolution will reveal which system is the better one. Too bad that it will be too late for us ...

02.02.2012, 20:43 UhrAnonymer Benutzer: Ihr Interesse zeichnet Sie aus! - Steuer Embargo

Das ganze deutsche Volk sollte sich dafür schämen, den Chinesen so eine Politmarionette zu präsentieren! Ja, ich glaube es wäre der richtige Weg, sich mit offenen Briefen beim chinesischen Volk zu entschuldigen, ihnen mit einem solchen Event Zeit gestohlen und Aufwand bereitet zu haben.
Ich denke die Menschen dort haben besseres zu tun, als ihre Zeit an eine wirkliche Kommunistenmarionette zu verschwenden, wo dieses Volk doch gerade dabei ist, sich zu entfalten.

The German people must feel ashamed to present such a polit-muppet to the Chinese. Yes, I think it would be right to apologise ourselves to the Chinese people with an open letter to have wasted their time and efforts for such an event.
I think they have better things to do than to waste their time for a true commi-muppet (from me: Merkel was in a commi organisation in the former GDR) as this people are on their way to unfold themselves.
 
^ China turned down the European request because Merkel doesn't want to either sell vital technologies or give political concessions to China. We are not interested in more paper, obviously.

Today's China is just like pre-WW1 Germany. We just want our "place in the Sun" and those dasdardly English / Americans want to ruin it all.

iajj is right about Angela Merkel. She serves as America's human rights attack dog against China in Europe using her "communist hating" rhetoric.

Continental Europe will need to get more independent from the UK and USA before China can really be ideologically comfortable with each other. Schreoder and Chirac could have made the EU more independent from UK and USA if they had dropped the weapons embargo.
 
Merkel needs to stop projecting her insecurities into international affairs.

She needs to feel no guilt about Nazis, WW2, communism, whatever. But she apparently does not understand that.
 
Götterdämmerung;2555201 said:
Thanks for the encouragement, guys! :)

of course you are getting praises from some chinese members for what you posted - the whole thread was created for that very purpose. it reminds me of an israeli blogger from many years back - keep courting chinese visitors to visit her site by posting tidbits of positive news about china, and once she turned to a domestic audience she dressed herself up as some kind of expert on china and told slandering stories about china and chinese to ensure jewish hostility towards china. this served a double purpose: by generating good will from chinese towards jews and by cooling jews off regarding china, she can make sure that in all future diplomatic negotiations the jews will press for ever more concessions from china and there may just be enough public support for goodwill gesture toward israel to allow chinese government to concede. good PR, but that is piggish, jewish behavior, one that your posting is replicating here. i guess the real anglo-american punishment of your killing of jews after the war was to turn your people into something very alike.

now, the more enlightened chinese minds like mine judge you germans by your words and deeds, such as those uttered and done by that CDU woman on her trip to china. and from these words and deeds, i can say germany isn't politically mature enough to take the next step in forging sino-german friendship. this lack of german strategic maturity cannot be made up by any amount of commercial stories you posted here.

as i said, i am deeply convinced that friendship - the real kind, as witnessed between china and pakistan - is in the common destiny of germany and china, so, please, take my harsh chastening in a good way: it is all meant to help germany and its people and educate them, despite the acid punch of my words.
 
Götterdämmerung genuinely feels no threat from China and reports objectively about China. But his viewpoint is a minority in Germany because most follow the USA and dislike China. That's all.
 
China to the rescue for EU? - maybe


'No chance Merkel talks China out of buying Iranian oil'

 
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Götterdämmerung genuinely feels no threat from China and reports objectively about China. But his viewpoint is a minority in Germany because most follow the USA and dislike China. That's all.

that may certainly be the case. but our fellow chinese members must not hold him as an example of germany's political awakening. we must give every german a knock on the head who comes to china armed not with the traditional german strategic wisdom but with anglo-american rhetoric that harms both germany and china (e.g., the CDU woman). chinese must bear in mind that this CDU woman was actually elected and certainly by a very sick german constituency and before that sickness is cured we must remain vigilant and not be taken in by gotterdammerung and these deceptively florid german reportage of china. unless gotterdammerung can prove his opinion of china is now typical of german public opinion, i must ask him to stop coming to thread posting these news stories - or unless he can share with us some very original thoughts on how to rectify the grave deficiency with germans' political education and strategic thinking; in other words, he must stop posting these deceptively favorable news articles. and i must ask fellow chinese members not to get addicted to these articles.

---------- Post added at 06:39 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:36 AM ----------

China to the rescue for EU? - maybe


'No chance Merkel talks China out of buying Iranian oil'


i am fed up with this CDU woman - two days ago i was speaking of the future of sino-german relationship. that future is still there. but today i must speak of the present and the huge wrongs germany is doing to china in the past few years under CDU leadership. so right now i don't care what the future holds for germans and chinese, but if germany keeps acting stupid china needs to give it a (however slight) knock on the head.
 
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Thanks guys for the lively discussion, that's the very purpose of a forum.

@ iajj

You are right in your assessment of the mentality of Germany. But there are always fringe elements in any society. I may be one of them.

Post WWII Germany has ben trapped in the Transatlantic Bridge (group) from top to the bottom, transplanted directly from the US right after the war. Our mass media and poltical parties are infiltrated by these elements, regardless what political hue they don. Anyone with a different view, regardless how reasonable and democratic they are, will be defamed, ridiculed as Communist, Nazi or simply as a wacko. Up till the fall of the Wall, people who were members of the communist party were excluded to work for any gouvernemental institutions including schools, as teachers are civil servants in Germany. As a politician, criticising Israel is the same as career suicide.

Merkel grew up in the former East Germany and she was an active member of the FDJ, a powerful youth organisation. Without a membership of this organisation, she wouldn't have been able to study at the university and get her doctorate as a physicist. After the fall of the Wall, she very much turned her head to the right and became the "girl" of former Chancellor Helmut Kohl who mentored her to where she is now. She is very much an opportunist, albeit a successful one.

It is easy to blame Germany for acting stupid, but one has to see what is underneath the surface. We are not a sovereign country. We are still an occupied country with over 60k US soldiers stationed on our territory plus the wide-spread network of the Transatlantic Bridge in practically any key position of any institution and large corporation. Our people have been brainwashed from kindergarten to the university, from the media to corparate culture.

But there is resistance, small but growing.

Also, I don't think that my Chinese friends in this forum are that simple minded to think that a few German news articles represents the majority of Germany.

Cheers
 
^ What is the situation with Norway? Are the people there as rabidly anti-China / pro-USA as their government? For similar reasons as Germany?
 
German protestants are naturally gifted (high IQ), diligent, conservative, and highly nationalistic... all characteristics epitomise the Han Chinese. The Dutch, whom Hitler called part of his own volks, are similar but more down-to-earth and "aware" than the Germans due to century-long worldwide trading traditions. Therefore it's no strange to find the Chinese, the Germans and the Dutch like each other becasue they are alike, a lot, given a neutral setting, particularly for the Chinese and the Germans as they have the typical Continental Power mindset.

Yet, Germany today is not traditional Germany in a natural setting. Merkel's party resembles Dutch CDA - central right , pro-EU but with a HUGE liberal influence. Due to its recent NS/Nazi history, Germany, to a lesser extent but in the same class Netherlands, Denmark, Austria and the Scandinavia, has been the ground-zero of Zionist - Neo liberal propaganda machine since the end of WWII. Most mass media in the said countries are either outright owned or directly editted by global Zionists with a heavy anti-China bias (one thing that the Chinese just don't get it then and now : it's not the "Western" mass media against you, but Zionist-controlled Western media against you! ). When I talk to German youths ( yes, I speak German too, in fact every Dutch speaks some degree of German), for every 1 pro-China you can find 6 anti-China all thanks to the persistant local Zionist media brainwash. Netherlands is slightly better since at least the Dutch are a pragmatic bunch and the Duthc economic elites were amongst the first to have awaken to the fact of China's rise - I recall back to 2005 or so when China suddenly became the hottest topic worldwide and the Dutch economic elites were at the forefront of the European awakening. Yet if one reads any major Dutch newspaper 3 out of 4 pieces on China would have strong anti-China bias in all events and worse for Germany I suspect. Don't misunderstand the English btw. The English youths (I mean the typical Anglo-Saxens), though suffered considerablely by the same Zinonist media, are nonetheless more pro-China or at least more neutral percentagewise than the current generation of Germans who are the most brainwashed bunch around (on either anti-China or other things) according to my experiences. Hence it's no wonder Merkel thinks and talks in such a way. For Germany to go forward and Germans become real traditional Germans, #1 thing on the to-do list would be to rid off Zionist media control. And I don't see that coming.
 
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