Since Earliest Historical Times Hinduism Was Never Popular in Pakistan

[Indischer]

You are coming again for the proof. Make up your mind on what constitutes a proof. I have told you earlier, you are not going to find a inscription from IVC people saying Shiva was borrowed by Rigvedic people. At one hand, you show the "proof" of Brahui migration based on loan words that are present but you refuse to accept loan gods as proof of IVC contribution. If Rigvedic people can spontaneously come up with non-IE gods, Brahui can come up with IE words themselves. Go through some of the published works, you will get most detailed answers regarding IVC remnants in Rigveda. Even linguistically, there are about 300 "loan words" in rigveda that are non IE. These same words are in use among today's dravidian people. That is a fact. This is what has prompted many people to believe IVC spoke some proto dravidian language. You call dravidian origin of Shiva a fringe theory? Asko Parpola is a "fringe theorist" to you?
Read his paper published in 2010, page 21 "http://w.harappa.com/script/Parpola-2010-Coimbatore.pdf"
Like I said, there are tons of tell tale signs. You consider things that suit you as proof and others as "fringe theory" etc. Also, I did not say Pasupati is Shiva, I added "most probably".

Who told you Shiva is a non-IE God?? All his characteristics are lifted from the RigVedic Rudra, who is very much a IE God of animals. Even the name Rudra has no dravidian/non-IE roots. You know about the Dravidian substratum in RigVeda, hence you'd also know they've gone through the whole text looking for such words. Tell me, how many names of Vedic deities do they consider to have Dravidian roots?? Zilch!! There's a huge difference between adopting the name of an agricultural tool and a God. Your talk would have been valid if the IE tribes didn't worship nature and animals, but they did! By themselves! Evidence of nature worship and a horse-sacrifice similar to Ashwamedha has been found in the Sintashta culture too.

Oldest sample of genetic mixup of ANI and ASI is 4200 years ago, around 2200BC, there are lots of loopholes in Aryan invasion theory. Extinction of Indus script can only be possible if they have abandoned it for new writing system. Egyptians too abandoned Hieroglyphic script although their civilization continued. I read about other theory that drying of Saraswati river led to disowning urban lifestyles and later hardship due to Eastward migration.

Precisely dude. There are lots of loopholes in the theory that advances the possibility of IVC having contributed to Vedic culture too. Didn't I say in the last sentence that my earlier question too need not be taken seriously? Since, there's no proof of an Aryan Invasion at all, such questions fall in the same category as those which ask that since a seal of a guy surrounded by animals is found in IVC, why can't it be that of Shiva?

 

[INDIC]

Precisely dude. There are lots of loopholes in the theory that advances the possibility of IVC having contributed to Vedic culture too. Didn't I say in the last sentence that my earlier question too need not be taken seriously? Since, there's no proof of an Aryan Invasion at all, such questions fall in the same category as those which ask that since a seal of a guy surrounded by animals is found in IVC, why can't it be that of Shiva?

There is more possibility that Pashupati of Indus Valley civilization is Shiva. Vedic culture is the successor of Indus valley civilization. The people carrying ANI genes arrived in India certain waves but I don't believe that there was an invasion that led to the fall of Indus Valley civilization.

 

[Fireurimagination]

Probably they were all killed to the last man and child by the Aryan tribes, who knows?
The onus of proof lies on the guy who comes up with a theory. Unless any proof is unearthed that can conclusively prove that IVC contributed substantially to Vedic culture, such an assumption cannot be entertained as a distinct possibility. Same goes with my question above.

Well you are also the one who is making random claims and coming up with a theory, can you prove that all people of the IVC to the last child was killed by the Aryan tribes? Can you prove that current day Hinduism has nothing to do with the IVC culture or beyond? Can you prove that the Pashupatinath or Goddess of IVC has nothing to do with current Shiva/Shakti? Can you prove that the IVC culture, language died without a trace and has nothing to do with the Dravidian history? etc

 

[Thirdfront]

Who told you Shiva is a non-IE God?? All his characteristics are lifted from the RigVedic Rudra, who is very much a IE God of animals. Even the name Rudra has no dravidian/non-IE roots. You know about the Dravidian substratum in RigVeda, hence you'd also know they've gone through the whole text looking for such words. Tell me, how many names of Vedic deities do they consider to have Dravidian roots?? Zilch!! There's a huge difference between adopting the name of an agricultural tool and a God. Your talk would have been valid if the IE tribes didn't worship nature and animals, but they did! By themselves! Evidence of nature worship and a horse-sacrifice similar to Ashwamedha has been found in the Sintashta culture too.


Precisely dude. There are lots of loopholes in the theory that advances the possibility of IVC having contributed to Vedic culture too. Didn't I say in the last sentence that my earlier question too need not be taken seriously? Since, there's no proof of an Aryan Invasion at all, such questions fall in the same category as those which ask that since a seal of a guy surrounded by animals is found in IVC, why can't it be that of Shiva?

Where did you get that??? Shiva and Shakti (Kali) both are considered Dravidian origin.

 

[Masterchief]

I last posted on this forum 2 years ago, now i've come back and see nothing has changed, cr@p threads like these continue getting discussed.

 

[Nassr]

Like? I may be amusing and annoying but right. My position was late IVC was further east of Sindhu, I have given the refernce with markers. Further info like names are not required....

The IVC that existed east of river Sindh was within the geographical remains of Sindh river system and not Ganges river valley. There was and is a watershed that existed and does exist which distinctly separates the two regions. You did not give any reference to support what you stated. IVC had nothing to do with Hinduism which as a religion which did not even exist at that time. Please go ahead and live in your times immemorial within Republic of India as the IVC landmass and Pakistan was and is different and separate political entity form 8000 years out of the over 9000 years of its existence.

Hinduism was never a popular faith in Pakistan since the earliest times and this is a fact.

I last posted on this forum 2 years ago, now i've come back and see nothing has changed, cr@p threads like these continue getting discussed.

Please come back after two more years. The geo-political environment are not going to change because you have decided to post on this forum again.

 

[Indischer]

Well you are also the one who is making random claims and coming up with a theory, can you prove that all people of the IVC to the last child was killed by the Aryan tribes? Can you prove that current day Hinduism has nothing to do with the IVC culture or beyond? Can you prove that the Pashupatinath or Goddess of IVC has nothing to do with current Shiva/Shakti? Can you prove that the IVC culture, language died without a trace and has nothing to do with the Dravidian history? etc

The first question is obviously untrue. I've cited plenty of evidences to prove the other questions that you've asked. feel free to go through them again

 

[Thirdfront]

The IVC that existed east of river Sindh was within the geographical remains of Sindh river system and not Ganges river valley. There was and is a watershed that existed and does exist which distinctly separates the two regions. You did not give any reference to support what you stated. IVC had nothing to do with Hinduism which as a religion which did not even exist at that time. Please go ahead and live in your times immemorial within Republic of India as the IVC landmass and Pakistan was and is different and separate political entity form 8000 years out of the over 9000 years of its existence.

Hinduism was never a popular faith in Pakistan since the earliest times and this is a fact.



Please come back after two more years. The geo-political environment are not going to change because you have decided to post on this forum again.

Nothing but ranting. One wake a person sleeping but not the one who is pretending to sleep.

You yourself admitted that during one period majority were Shaivaites (who are Hindus) and then pulled some thing from your behind and made them monotheists.....

 

[Indischer]

Where did you get that??? Shiva and Shakti (Kali) both are considered Dravidian origin.

No they aren't. The etymological roots of both Shiva and Shakti are Sanskritic.

 

[Chronos]

I see this thread has gone hell on a hand basket

 

[Nassr]

Nothing but ranting. One wake a person sleeping but not the one who is pretending to sleep.

You yourself admitted that during one period majority were Shaivaites (who are Hindus) and then pulled some thing from your behind and made them monotheists.....

Lord Shiva is not mentioned anywhere in the primary Hindu scripture Rig Veda or any of the other Vedas, irrespective of assimilating Rudra. The era which I am referring to Shaivism was a separate religion and was proclaimed as a monotheistic practice. And therefore the practice was not even part of Sanatana Dharma as well. Later Hinduism includes all and every religion in its fold without even asking those who practice it - Sikhism, Jainis, Buddhism are a few to be mentioned. And I would not discuss about those who do not believe that Hinduism is a religion, if at all, inspite of the contemporary efforts to proclaim it as one.

You may want to use any amount of expletives that you may.

I see this thread has gone hell on a hand basket

No it has not. Instead it is revealing varied aspects which I have not read in any of the similar previous threads on this forum.

 

[Nassr]

@Thirdfront,

Malati J. Shendge, in his book, “The Civilized Demons: The Harappans in Rigveda,” Abhinav Publications, 2003, states that the claims about Lothal basin to be a Dockyard are at this stage rather doubtful unless some more evidence is unearthed to reinforce them. Which means that he does not believe that Lothal was an IVC port.

 

[funtoosh]

I don't know how many times I should say. Islam is not a religion. Its just a imperial force. if its about religion it would have talked only of relation between man and god. not some bs about how you can loot your captive once you win a war and how you can hide your religious idelntitiy and strike when you have the upper hand.

 

[Nassr]

I don't know how many times I should say. Islam is not a religion. Its just a imperial force. if its about religion it would have talked only of relation between man and god. not some bs about how you can loot your captive once you win a war and how you can hide your religious idelntitiy and strike when you have the upper hand.

This may be your opinion, but Islam as a religion does not state anything of this sort. However, we are not discussing Islam here - not even remotely. I therefore request you to please stick to the topic. Thank you.

 

[funtoosh]

This may be your opinion, but Islam as a religion does not state anything of this sort. However, we are not discussing Islam here - not even remotely. I therefore request you to please stick to the topic. Thank you.

sorry, but your religionsists use that as justification to plunder.