Should we rethink Kashmir?

[Ram Mahadev]

the probability is much higher. Look at some examples of Freedom movements around South Asia

• Kashmir
• Khalistan
• Demand of separate nation for the people of Assam
• For the people of Naga
• Tripura
• Balochistan
• Tamil Tigers are dead but you never know about the uprising in future

Though the demand is very low for most of these movements but still you never know about future uprising. The map of Kashmir is bound to be changed one day as the present boundaries are not acceptable to any of the 3 major stakeholders. (The people of Kashmir, Pakistan and India). Other movements may ultimately die one day once the generation has passed

I don't know whether you live in Pakistan or abroad. I live in India and am wondering the hope some of you having is for real or not. Your focus is like how to hate India but not How to develop Pakistan. Think about it. Totally different world and different situations in India than you think

the probability is much higher. Look at some examples of Freedom movements around South Asia

• Kashmir
• Khalistan
• Demand of separate nation for the people of Assam
• For the people of Naga
• Tripura
• Balochistan
• Tamil Tigers are dead but you never know about the uprising in future

Though the demand is very low for most of these movements but still you never know about future uprising. The map of Kashmir is bound to be changed one day as the present boundaries are not acceptable to any of the 3 major stakeholders. (The people of Kashmir, Pakistan and India). Other movements may ultimately die one day once the generation has passed

Kashmir will also be dead story once we reinstall Pandits and Hindus to their ancestral land. Separatists had a joy full ride like no other country will do. It's like funding people who want to disintegrate Ur County mortgage and allowing them to meet Ur enemies so they keep plotting future plans to divide u. Wow.

 

[Razia Sultana]

I am guessing u were not alive in the 1980s-90s
If jihadis and huriat couldn't do shit then , it wont be able to do anything for the next 1000 years

Yes late 80s and 90s were worst time for India in terms of politcal instability specially after 1989; economic instability- we had worst economic crisis in the 90s, height of terrorism in Punjab and Kashmir - after Soviet collapse all the afghan jihadis were diverted to Kashmir and non-muslims thrown out of valley. The worst is over for India in J&K.

 

[Aviator23]

In the world of “Realpolitik” there is no such thing as right or wrong. Depending upon which end of the telescope you are looking at, everything and every action can be justified with the arguments. (Remember when in the Jutland war Nelson deliberately put the telescope to his blind eye and declared that I can’t see the flag signals).

I have always been of the opinion that policy of infiltrating the Jihadists from Azad Kashmir did the worst possible harm to the Kashmiri cause. Both the countries would continue sinking enormous sums in the military hardware instead of spending the same on economic well-being of the populace unless an out of the box solution can be found.

Musharraf tried to do it but failed. In my opinion if India goes back to her original commitment with the Sheikh Abdulla and reverts to a special status for Kashmir, the things will simmer down in the IOK.

However, I do realize that this is not likely to happen in my lifetime. After reading Indian newspapers and the rhetoric of the Indian journalists on the Indian TV programmes I realised that many replicas of Gen Hamid Gul; albeit in Indian colours; exist on the other side of the border. I fear an Indo-Pak full-fledged war is on the cards. Not a question of “if” but “when”. I don’t care about the Indians but I would not like to see the towns such as Lahore, Karachi, Sargodha and Faisalabad suffer nukes, therefore I pray that such war only happens after I am gone.

There is however always a slim hope that better sense would prevail and evenetually a peaceful solution would be found.

You're right about that. The Jihadi policy was okay at first but should have been abandoned after 9/11 when the world started to look down upon Islamic Jihadi's. The continued policy did the most damage.

 

[Sine Nomine]

I think the future of Kashmir will eventually be decided in the battleground

Agreed,area lost in battlefield is never gained on tables.

You're right about that. The Jihadi policy was okay at first but should have been abandoned after 9/11 when the world started to look down upon Islamic Jihadi's. The continued policy did the most damage.

It was abandoned by Pakistan in KASHMIR before 9/11.

 

[Aviator23]

Agreed,area lost in battlefield is never gained on tables.


It was abandoned by Pakistan in KASHMIR before 9/11.

But non-state actors in Pakistan still conducted activities there.

I still think the world will forgive us with regard to India/Kashmir non-state actors as long as we do something about the Afghan Taliban.

 

[third eye]

I think the future of Kashmir will eventually be decided in the battleground as the two nations just cannot resolve the issue peacefully. They have been trying to resolve for 70 years and they will keep on resolving it for another 700 years.

Attempts to solve them have been made on battle grounds too before, so how will the next one any different ?

The history of this Indian subcontinent suggests that it has always been changing the geographical boundaries every 100 years and the map of South Asia is likely to change once again as permanent solution.

The last change happened in 1971, so going by your assessment we may have to wait for about four decades for a change.

Refer bold & underlined part,believe me the world will not allow such devastation that would be needed for Pak to take J&K, not because they love us but because too much real estate shall be laid waste for decades & this includes the CPEC.

I have always been of the opinion that policy of infiltrating the Jihadists from Azad Kashmir did the worst possible harm to the Kashmiri cause. Both the countries would continue sinking enormous sums in the military hardware instead of spending the same on economic well-being of the populace unless an out of the box solution can be found.

Musharraf tried to do it but failed. In my opinion if India goes back to her original commitment with the Sheikh Abdulla and reverts to a special status for Kashmir, the things will simmer down in the IOK.

Yes, the entire idea was & is flawed, destined not to succeed. Seen from a Pak angle, it allows them the flexibility to induct terrorists at will, in small groups at time of own choosing.

To India, this Pak strategy allows it the comfort to tackle such groups in sucessive tiers, if they melt into local population they are identified & picked up thru intel network. A sort of ' whenever convenient" type approach to the issue . This style / approach helps in obtaining funding for such actions / infiltration with results which need not be commensurate .. so every one is happy.

As regards the underlined part, too much water has flown under the bridge.

 

[Sine Nomine]

But non-state actors in Pakistan still conducted activities there.

Care to Explain when,do you think kid we will try to blow some soldiers here and there,when we know that can do nothing.

I still think the world will forgive us with regard to India/Kashmir non-state actors as long as we do something about the Afghan Taliban.

We don't need any pardon from world when we have to work in our national interests.Taliban don't bring them in,we don't need to do anything against them because we don' need another enemy,if you say Afghan Government demanding to do so then still we can't do that,they patched Gullbadin with them who knows tomorrow they and Taliban are patched up.

Seen from a Pak angle, it allows them the flexibility to induct terrorists at will, in small groups at time of own choosing.

And that whole Infiltration saga through population started after you introduced Muktis and LTTE.

 

[third eye]

And that whole Infiltration saga through population started after you introduced Muktis and LTTE.

Even before the Muktis were even conceived , Op Gibraltar happened - check your facts

Next, the issue at hand had nothing to do with what you interjected to add.

 

[Sine Nomine]

Even before the Muktis were even conceived , Op Gibraltar happened - check your facts

Next, the issue at hand had nothing to do with what you interjected to add.

Well I knew you will drag op Gibraltar,there is difference between a Elite Unit and civilians trained for terrorism,isn't it.

 

[Aviator23]

Care to Explain when,do you think kid we will try to blow some soldiers here and there,when we know that can do nothing.

We don't need any pardon from world when we have to work in our national interests.Taliban don't bring them in,we don't need to do anything against them because we don' need another enemy,if you say Afghan Government demanding to do so then still we can't do that,they patched Gullbadin with them who knows tomorrow they and Taliban are patched up.


And that whole Infiltration saga through population started after you introduced Muktis and LTTE.

I'm not saying WE let them do it. But we never fully clamped down on them and they skipped across the border.

We don't need new enemies but keeping Afghan Taliban here invites the wrath of the Americans. And yes getting America on our side is important whether we like that or not. Let Afghan Taliban operate from Afghanistan, Iran, China who cares. Our name won't be attached to them, our government won't be getting pressurised to act against them, our towns won't be getting droned in their pursuit. India will have less propaganda material against us.

I completely understand that kicking them out is fraught with dangers but that seems like the only viable option right now.

 

[Sine Nomine]

I'm not saying WE let them do it. But we never fully clamped down on them and they skipped across the border.

Have you been to LOC?Do you know how much atrocities Indian Army committed against locals? if not then please refrain from quoting me.

We don't need new enemies but keeping Afghan Taliban here invites the wrath of the Americans.

Listen kid,Taliban are operating from Afghanistan,kunduz is no where near to Pakistan but still they took it,they control all Afghan highways if you want to pass,pass by force or pay,they control Major Drug routes,neither they are short of manpower because they control about 50% RURAL areas in day and 90% in night.They have got more local support then NUG has.And above all US has cited then an Armed Insurgency and Political Movement.All drug lords bow to them to get there opium products out of Afghanistan.We need to have some leverage over them because in last 15 year's of constant war they have showed every body that they are force in Afghanistan,that's why every neighbour of Afghanistan is dealing with them including china.

 

[Aviator23]

Have you been to LOC?Do you know how much atrocities Indian Army committed against locals? if not then please refrain from quoting me.

Listen kid,Taliban are operating from Afghanistan,kunduz is no where near to Pakistan but still they took it,they control all Afghan highways if you want to pass,pass by force or pay,they control Major Drug routes,neither they are short of manpower because they control about 50% RURAL areas in day and 90% in night.They have got more local support then NUG has.And above all US has cited then an Armed Insurgency and Political Movement.All drug lords bow to them to get there opium products out of Afghanistan.We need to have some leverage over them because in last 15 year's of constant war they have showed every body that they are force in Afghanistan,that's why every neighbour of Afghanistan is dealing with them including china.

Indeed I do but letting infiltrators cross over from our side doesn't help them at all.

Are Afghan Taliban not living in Pakistan? Mullah Mansoor died here. Their shura is in Quetta as far as I know.

Right now we have no leverage at all. The US is on our case and supporting India against us, our international standing is being damaged, India is spewing propaganda against us. Sooner or later Pakistan will have to make a decision regarding them. I'd rather sooner than later.

 

[Sine Nomine]

Indeed I do but letting infiltrators cross over from our side doesn't help them at all.

Are Afghan Taliban not living in Pakistan? Mullah Mansoor died here. Their shura is in Quetta as far as I know.

Right now we have no leverage at all. The US is on our case and supporting India against us, our international standing is being damaged, India is spewing propaganda against us. Sooner or later Pakistan will have to make a decision regarding them. I'd rather sooner than later.

Please kid I beg you to continue using facebook and playing COD,what LOC is,how formations are deployed how vigilance is maintained you don't have even iota about that business.
Mullah was killed while he was working on a peace deal and was traveling from Iran.After his martyrdom negotiations have died and dozens of people's are being killed everyday in Afghanistan.
They don't need to live here because it's idiotic to just live in another country while your logistics and popular support is somewhere else.There is nothing like quetta shura for controlling a Taliban like group you need to be within them.