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Should we accept Sweden into NATO?

Should we accept Sweden into NATO?

  • YES - Sweden should gain the trust of other member countries of the union with the steps it will tak

    Votes: 26 44.1%
  • NO - If Sweden is to continue supporting terrorism, it must get along with Russia

    Votes: 35 59.3%

  • Total voters
    59
Typical turkish bazar mentality which is best ignored. It dossnt need Turkish approval for finland and Swedej to join. Real politics always trumps paper contract. In the end some soft words be spoken and thats it.

You either believed in the propaganda or you are a propagandist. For eight years before February 24 2022 the fascist Ukrainian military had been bombarding and slaughtering in the eastern regions. The Bandera people and the Azov people were being rapists and other forms of terrorists in the eastern region. Where is your concern for that ? The North American and the British militaries were training the Azov Nazi terrorists and these Western military men are still holed up with the Ukrainian Nazis in the Azovstal factory. These are other than all the other crimes done by the Ukrainian military against its own civilians. How can NATO do regime change or attempt to do so in Libya and Syria on trumped up charges of Libyan and Syrian forces "killing civilians including women and children" but support the criminals in Ukraine who are actually doing that ? How can you deny all this ? How can you ignore all this hypocrisy and injustice and blatant imperialism ?

You sad how russia gets toasted?
 
it is not big deal for those scandinavians, they can twist their principles as usual and accept legitimate requests from Turkie.
 
You either believed in the propaganda or you are a propagandist. For eight years before February 24 2022 the fascist Ukrainian military had been bombarding and slaughtering in the eastern regions. The Bandera people and the Azov people were being rapists and other forms of terrorists in the eastern region. Where is your concern for that ? The North American and the British militaries were training the Azov Nazi terrorists and these Western military men are still holed up with the Ukrainian Nazis in the Azovstal factory. These are other than all the other crimes done by the Ukrainian military against its own civilians. How can NATO do regime change or attempt to do so in Libya and Syria on trumped up charges of Libyan and Syrian forces "killing civilians including women and children" but support the criminals in Ukraine who are actually doing that ? How can you deny all this ? How can you ignore all this hypocrisy and injustice and blatant imperialism ?
You failed to add in your assay Ukraine is run by drug addicts. Did you copy paste from Putin? He said all of as reason to go to war.
 
Ministry of Justice:

In the last five years, Sweden has rejected the extradition requests of 33 terrorists who have been proved to have engaged in armed activities.

All such extradition requests are judged in a court.
They get published like this:


Obviously in Swedish, so google translate is useful.

So this individual was in PKK, and was sentenced in Turkey where he spent the jail time.
After the sentence he became an informer for the Turkish government, and spilled information about violations of the law by the Turkish security apparatus to journalists.

He was therefore not popular with PKK nor with the Turkish government and requested asylum in Sweden.

Extradition happens when someone commits a crime which is punishable in both countries.

Some of the crimes he was accused of like creating an organisation is not a crime in Sweden.
Some crimes had reached the statute of limitations In Sweden.
Turkey claimed that the person had admitted crimes and sent ”evidence”. The material received in Sweden did not contain any information indicating that the accused had admitted any crimes.

To Sweden it looks like Turkey wants to take revenge for him revealing their crimes, but cannot produce anything tanglible.

Without any tangible evidence that a person has commited a crime punishable by Swedish Law, the extradition should be rejected.

A number of those which Turkey requested to extradite were journalist, and since freedom of speech laws are very different in Sweden, criticizing Erdogan is not a crime.

Just saying that 33 individuals did not get extradited is not helpful. Explaining why Sweden did not follow common rules on extradition in each case is needed if Turkey wants any credibility.

Turkey does not need to motivate a ”no” to Sweden and Finland, but if it does not have a motivation and simply uses this to blackmail NATO then there may be a political price to pay.
 
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Waving a flag is traditionally not a crime in Sweden.
It is freedom of speech.

As an example: some guy was accused of waving an ISIS flag, but the conclusion was that no crime was committed.


Displaying a swastika is automatically considered a hate crime, which is about the only exception I can think of.

Whenever you a demonstration in Sweden you have to get it approved, but rules for approval are pretty rigid. They cannot be denied without good reasons (like another demonstration at the same time and location).

There was a change in Swedish Law in 2020 targetting terrorist organisations.

”Several laws dealing with terrorist crimes and other serious crime are being changed. Among other things, a special criminal liability is introduced for those who have links with a terrorist organization, if the links are intended to promote, strengthen or support the organization. It will also be a criminal offense to call for conspiracies and to recruit for conspiracies with terrorist organizations. Furthermore, it should be a criminal offense to travel abroad to have contact with a terrorist organization or to finance contact with such an organization. The penalty for illegal recruitment will be sharpened.

The new rules will come into force on 1 March 2020. The Riksdag said yes to the Government's proposal.”

Based on this, I think this is a demonstration which has not been approved, and can be prosecuted.

If this flagwaving was before March 1, 2020, then it was not illegal.
 
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When Sweden responded positively to Turkey's requests, the PKK supporter MP in the Swedish parliament declared that she withdrew her support from the government. Ask the Swedes how this terrorist supporter and PKK member MP has blackmailed government parties before.


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You can do it Sweden, keep trying!

*

While statements came one after another in response to Turkey's support for Sweden's support to the terrorist organization PKK and its demand to lift restrictions on Turkey, Swedish Prime Minister Magdelena Andersson made statements to the state television STV yesterday.

Andersson: We appreciate our meeting today with Turkish President Erdogan on Sweden's NATO implementation. We look forward to strengthening our bilateral relations, including peace, security and the fight against terrorism."

Just after that, Amineh Kakabahev, Iranian-origin and a member of the terrorist organization PKK, who was a deputy in the Swedish Parliament, withdrew her support from the government. Terrorist supporter and PKK member Kakabahev said, "The promises were not kept. I am not happy with the progress in Sweden. If they do not comply with the agreement, I will withdraw my support so in important votes." Kakabahev: "Sweden, as always, bows to Erdogan's demands and statements. It is a scandal that Magdelena Andersson and the parliament did not ignore the demands of the Embassy and Turkey regarding the extradition of me and many freedom fighters to Turkey.
 
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Turkeys five demands.
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Sweden considers PKK to be a terrorist organisation.
Turkey is the only country in Europe considering YPG to be a terrorist organisation. Sweden does not consider itself to support terrorists.
Waving flags is considered freedom of speech. Even waving ISIS flags is not considered a crime. Active support of terrorist organisations like recruiting or sending money is illegal. Travelling to join a terrorist group is illegal. Political support for Kurds is not.
Turkey has requested a number of extraditions. These requests are judged in court. Some requests are granted, some requests do not meet the demands required by laws in extradition. The Swedish Government is forbidden by the Constitution to interfere with the courts decisions.
Most of those denied are journalists, authors and editors.

Extradition may be denied in the following cases,
  • Not a crime according to Swedish Law
  • Statute of Limitations reached
  • Evidence not provided
  • Inidividual not in Sweden
That is pretty much the global standards for extraditions.

Sweden has $370M in the budget for help to Syria. Mostly humanitarian help to refugees, Some of this money actually goes to Turkey.

Sweden does not ship arms to conflict areas, so neither Turkey nor Kurds gets arms.
Many European countries refuse to ship arms to Turkey due to its incursions in Syria.
Sweden is likely to support global cooperation against terrorism, but this will be based on concensus on what to do. Sweden cannot be expected to have to convince the rest of NATO to adopt Turkeys narrative against their will.

It looks like Turkey would deny all other countries in NATO membership if they had a chance.
 
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When Sweden responded positively to Turkey's requests, the PKK supporter MP in the Swedish parliament declared that she withdrew her support from the government. Ask the Swedes how this terrorist supporter and PKK member MP has blackmailed government parties before.


FTcpqniX0AUBopQ


You can do it Sweden, keep trying!

*

While statements came one after another in response to Turkey's support for Sweden's support to the terrorist organization PKK and its demand to lift restrictions on Turkey, Swedish Prime Minister Magdelena Andersson made statements to the state television STV yesterday.

Andersson: We appreciate our meeting today with Turkish President Erdogan on Sweden's NATO implementation. We look forward to strengthening our bilateral relations, including peace, security and the fight against terrorism."

Just after that, Amineh Kakabahev, Iranian-origin and a member of the terrorist organization PKK, who was a deputy in the Swedish Parliament, withdrew her support from the government. Terrorist supporter and PKK member Kakabahev said, "The promises were not kept. I am not happy with the progress in Sweden. If they do not comply with the agreement, I will withdraw my support so in important votes." Kakabahev: "Sweden, as always, bows to Erdogan's demands and statements. It is a scandal that Magdelena Andersson and the parliament did not ignore the demands of the Embassy and Turkey regarding the extradition of me and many freedom fighters to Turkey.

Being born in Iran, and leaving for Sweden when she was 20 years or younger, she is not likely to have been a member of the PKK.
Membership in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Party_of_Iranian_Kurdistan (KDPI) is much more likely.
Being in Sweden, for more than 30 years, it is unlikely that she can be convicted for any crimes, and Turkey backed off comments on extradition made last week.

She is a Marxist, elected on the Left Partys list, but was thrown out for some ”politically incorrect” comments when the Left Party refused to criticize ”honour killings”.
Still in Parliament as a maverick, but unlikely to be reelected in the September elections.
 
Nesrin Abdullah, who is executive responsible for the PKK's female militant structring, the Swedish parliamentarian who fought in the Iranian mountains with the PJAK terrorists in the past, and Swedish Minister Linde in the middle are in the same frame.

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Sweden's relief from these burdens is primarily in its own interest. terrorist are terrorists

 
Nesrin Abdullah, who is executive responsible for the PKK's female militant structring, the Swedish parliamentarian who fought in the Iranian mountains with the PJAK terrorists in the past, and Swedish Minister Linde in the middle are in the same frame.

FTxoLSjWIAEeXx7



Sweden's relief from these burdens is primarily in its own interest. terrorist are terrorists

Someone who fights for PJAK until she is 20 years old and then seeks asylum in Sweden, then studies and start working in politics should be extradited 30-35 years later?
I guess you have not heard about statute of limitations.
If Turkeys arguments are not better than this, I guess there will be a veto, because noone is buying that in Sweden.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nesrin_Abdullah is YPJ.
Intellectual honesty demands that you do not lie.

Quoting an idiot that thinks that YPG == ISIS, does not improve your argument.
 
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Edogan should mention he switch sides if this goes ahead? lol jump in russian camp.
 
Sweden is the country that fears Russia the most. We are talking about a country that built around 40,000 bunkers during the Cold War, mostly because of fear of nuclear attack. This fear is now driving them into the despair of joining NATO. However, they tries to fend off the just demands by trying to develop stupid political discourse, never wanna face their own mistakes and still trying keeping their tail up.

Today, we have read many things accusing and insulting Turkey on Swedish social media and mainstream media, even from representatives of small left parties.

Sweden tries to explain its political interests and irresponsible arrogance with so-called human rights advocacy and liberalism; they accuse us of being an anti-democratic dictatorship. They even try to market Turkey as a pro-Russian, Eurasian, and bigotary country against the european values.

We will get into some details in this thread and I will ask just one question, which writin on title.

*

But first, I would like to make a few reminders to some circles who do not hesitate to slander Turkish values and culture:

How many people know that the basis of Sweden's legendary social welfare state system was a disastrous decades-long campaign of ethnic cleansing. More than 60,000 people in Sweden were victims of a Nazi-style forced sterilization campaign just because their type didn't resemble the Nordic race.

What is the name of sterilizing and extinction of non-purebreds in order to create an 'ideal' society? What kind of thoughts were behind the Institute of Racial Biology, which was established in Sweden in 1921 for the first time in the world, printing posters saying "Ideal northern type"? They explained that the policy followed at that time was to prevent the proliferation of unsuitable generations in order to establish an ideal society. Moreover, among those who support this view, the Nobel Prize-winning social democratic thinker Prof. Gunnar Myrdal and his wife, Nobel Peace Prize winner Alva Myrdal, were also present.


The signature under the circulars sent to the authorities for the measurement of skulls was Tage Erlander, the legendary leader of the Swedish social democrats. In your history books, schoolbooks and encyclopedias, neither how 100,000 people were sterilized written nor the "State Institute of Racial Biology" was written, which was established in Uppsala in 1921, and later Nazi Germany took as an example. European historiography is purely political, lacking in objectivity, and, like Rome writing Carthage, a triumphal quackery.

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Years and years later; Historian Gunnar Broberg's book and Polish journalist Maciej Zaremba's research published in the Dagen Nyheter newspaper dated 19-20 August 1997 revealed Sweden nazism and ethnic cleansing methods.

Nordic countries followed the same line as Sweden. Between 1935 and 1976, approximately 50,000 people in Norway and 6,000 people in Denmark were sterilized. Although it is written that sterilization is optional in the law, it has been seen that repression is used in practice.

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In 1942, a circular was signed by Tage Erlander to make a census of all gypsies and the mobile workers called "Tattare". Prior to this, a report called the 'non pure race' was prepared about the Tattares in 1937.

Although the opinion that the Tattares could be assimilated gained weight in the evaluation made after the report, the sterilization policy was preferred, and a census and search was started for all their people one by one, because of the fear of the emergence of bad habits in future generations.

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When the skull measurements were completed in 1945, it was revealed that the Tattares were Swedish, but the General Directorate of Social Services did not accept this result. After 1950, when UNESCO opposed the use of the concept of race in a racist sense, the Tattares were called "counter race".

And a large number of Tattares were neutered. According to Maija Runcis, who is a doctoral researcher on sterilization policy, since the law only allows voluntary sterilization, the authorities issued a phony report for the victims chosen by the authorities as "mentally unstable".

Documents available show that 95 percent of those sterilized are women. Those who were admitted to the school for the handicapped were also threatened with the worst conditions throughout their lives if they did not agree to be sterilized at the end of school.

The increase in sterilization in the 1940s was partly due to the fact that child assistance would be introduced in accordance with the principles of the welfare state in the following years. Gunnar Myrdal, who wanted to point out that those who do not contribute to the welfare society should not benefit from the assistances, warned that “Child aid may lead to an increase in those with bad hereditary characteristics” at that time.

A record was broken with 2264 sterilization operations in 1948, when child aid began, because people with undesirable characteristics were feared to give birth incessantly to benefit from child assistance. The sterilization operations based on the logic of 'Let the undeserving perish' actually lasted until the mid-1960s.

The eugenics, which began quietly in 1935, was quietly ended in 1976 when the law was repealed. The sterilization policy was tried to be explained by the "breeding" winds that blew all over the world in the 1930s, but research shows that this is not so.

Although purging of incompetent society was discussed in many European states, few states practiced it. And these policies were led by Sweden and Norway.

The real shocking truth: While sterilization was applied only for the mentally ill and during the Nazi era in Germany, in the northern countries under the hegemony of the social democrats, people who were seen as a hindrance in the establishment of the welfare state were chosen as victims. They built their society on a terrible form of racism.

The fact that sterilization laws were passed unanimously in the Swedish parliament, and the church allowed it, is also a point to consider. Lifting the veil over recent history has also revealed the hypocrisy of politicians.

In 1997, the Minister of Social Security, Margot Wallström, stated that she was deeply saddened by the events and would take the matter to the government for compensation, after the incident had a wide repercussions and a woman who was one of the victims of the sterilization policy announced that her application to the government for compensation was rejected.

At the bottom of the letter sent to the woman was this minister's signature and stated that compensation would not be paid as the practice was done in accordance with the law.

(I would like to thank journalist Mithat Alaban for his article and photos they share which used as a source, this part of post.)

***

Today, Sweden still continues to ignore other people's lives for its own interests, openly support terrorism in other countries and try to explain all this with so-called human rights and liberalism. They are responsible for the deaths of hundreds of people in Turkey.


Here is a brief summary of the current situation from another thread:





The real question is: Should we take Sweden, which has such a fascist and racist past, into NATO? Or should we not? Or is it worth sacrificing our Turkish soldiers, our Mehmetçik, to protect Sweden and their welfare?
NO
let me give you another reason
1654032943928.png

context:
1654032968424.png
 
On one hand,Erdogan is making Turkey look like an unreliable NATO member and double-crossing "ally" to the Westerners.

On the other,Sweden has always been neutral or indifferent to us when we needed support about our national matters. And I mean generally. I also don't want to see Finland endangered.

And I sure don't want to see Erdogan getting any Gripen.

So,neutral Sweden that always lectured others,now wants to take sides. And one of their problems is their immigration policy. They have filled their country with Arabs,black Africans and Kurds. And now the Kurds are protesting. And if they try to kick the Kurds,their society will react. Because they have turned their society into a politically correct SJW liberal thing.
 

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