Should Pakistan try to obtain the Su-25 Aircraft for the CAS and COIN Role?

[Lincoln]

With the draw-down in Afghanistan expected over the next 15 months, the threat of ISIS and other insurgents attacking Pakistani posts along the border and inside of Pakistan may increase. To counter this threat, Pakistan could use its JF-17s for precision bombing and its K-8 for limited CAS, but the threat of enemy fire could damage these planes, which were not designed for this role.

While the first rebuttal to such a proposal will be cost. As stated in this old thread.
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/su-25-attack-aircraft.82315/

The SU-25 not only gave deliver a punch, but take one as well. It was designed as a tank killer, so along with dealing with irregular forces, it can be used to repel a limited conventional attack by our eastern neighbor, especially if used in conjunction with EW JF-17s as top cover.

The Su-25 is a 50 year old design, and has recently been battle tested in Syria over the last few years. New Weapons and tactics will also be available to maximize its utility. Russia maybe willing to share its knowledge for a price or an arms sale of PGMs.

The Ukrainians are a Pakistani ally, and have sold 3-4 Su-25s (from their reserve stockpile of 30) to Macedonia. Should Pakistan approach them to buy, a decent number, such as 24 su-25s with a promise for a SU-25 refurbishment contract?

To make up for numbers beyond these 24 Su-25s, PAF fleet of JF-17s can be used from standoff ranges with PGMs. The Su-25s will really be used to get in close, and make sure effective firepower is used on enemy forces, and civilians are not harmed as much as possible.

The pilots need to be protected adequately, and the plane needs to fly for a long endurance to pick off targets of opportunity. It's ability to fly from unprepared fields will allow it to follow the troops any where they travel, shortening reaction times.

Buying from Ukraine opens up the option to customize the planes to use our munitions or any other munition open to us. for example, Arming them with modern precision rockets such as the Turkish one will minimize the cost over using expensive missiles like the hellfire, and allow more rockets to be carried, so more targets an be engaged in a single sortie.

I get your point but it's a Russian jet. We don't have the infrastructure, equipment or experience with Russian jets. To set that up for a few old Russian jets will be expensive and consume personnel. I think it would be better if we find a solution by other means. I think JF-17 needs a lot more experience, and to make few jets for it to perform that role would be good.

You buy stuff to use, not to showcase.

 

[Meliodas]

With the draw-down in Afghanistan expected over the next 15 months, the threat of ISIS and other insurgents attacking Pakistani posts along the border and inside of Pakistan may increase. To counter this threat, Pakistan could use its JF-17s for precision bombing and its K-8 for limited CAS, but the threat of enemy fire could damage these planes, which were not designed for this role.

While the first rebuttal to such a proposal will be cost. As stated in this old thread.
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/su-25-attack-aircraft.82315/

The SU-25 not only gave deliver a punch, but take one as well. It was designed as a tank killer, so along with dealing with irregular forces, it can be used to repel a limited conventional attack by our eastern neighbor, especially if used in conjunction with EW JF-17s as top cover.

The Su-25 is a 50 year old design, and has recently been battle tested in Syria over the last few years. New Weapons and tactics will also be available to maximize its utility. Russia maybe willing to share its knowledge for a price or an arms sale of PGMs.

The Ukrainians are a Pakistani ally, and have sold 3-4 Su-25s (from their reserve stockpile of 30) to Macedonia. Should Pakistan approach them to buy, a decent number, such as 24 su-25s with a promise for a SU-25 refurbishment contract?

To make up for numbers beyond these 24 Su-25s, PAF fleet of JF-17s can be used from standoff ranges with PGMs. The Su-25s will really be used to get in close, and make sure effective firepower is used on enemy forces, and civilians are not harmed as much as possible.

The pilots need to be protected adequately, and the plane needs to fly for a long endurance to pick off targets of opportunity. It's ability to fly from unprepared fields will allow it to follow the troops any where they travel, shortening reaction times.

Buying from Ukraine opens up the option to customize the planes to use our munitions or any other munition open to us. for example, Arming them with modern precision rockets such as the Turkish one will minimize the cost over using expensive missiles like the hellfire, and allow more rockets to be carried, so more targets an be engaged in a single sortie.

Love to see su 25 with us

 

[Philip the Arab]

I get your point but it's a Russian jet. We don't have the infrastructure, equipment or experience with Russian jets. To set that up for a few old Russian jets will be expensive and consume personnel. I think it would be better if we find a solution by other means. I think JF-17 needs a lot more experience, and to make few jets for it to perform that role would be good.

You buy stuff to use, not to showcase.

What about K-8? LGB upgrade and possible targeting pod would make it a lethal CAS platform.

 

[Lincoln]

What about K-8? LGB upgrade and possible targeting pod would make it a lethal CAS platform.

Perhaps. But I still don't see why need more jets when we can equip some JF-17 for it.

 

[Philip the Arab]

Perhaps. But I still don't see why need more jets when we can equip some JF-17 for it.

Its made to be multirole. I have no doubt it could use LGBs and perform CAS just fine. Much more expensive then running a jet like K-8 against insurgents.

 

[undercover JIX]

dreams, imaginations...
Is Russia selling it to Pakistan?
Baseless Threads on shikh chilli dreams.
at least post a news/tweet something to start with.

Just my POV, you can allow in any case I just spread propaganda.
@The Eagle @waz @Arsalan @Dubious

 

[Philip the Arab]

Hell, even a turboprop can do CAS missions adequately like UAE B-250.

Pakistan could do something like this. These are all indigenous and non-American licensed produced weapons which are lethal.

7 LGBs and guided flir rockets is surely lethal against insurgents at $3000 usd per flight hour.

 

[Umar27]

JH-7 or K-8 kitted up for the job not this ooold sukhoi
Major issue also is how many f-16 jf-17 can we spare to escort these aircraft in all out war when our air force will spend the bulk of its time in intense air defence cap missions against indian mirage strikes with su-30 escorts.
@ All established members

 

[Philip the Arab]

JH-7 or K-8 kitted up for the job not this ooold sukhoi
Major issue also is how many f-16 jf-17 can we spare to escort these aircraft in all out war when our air force will spend the bulk of its time in intense air defence cap missions against indian mirage strikes with su-30 escorts.
@ All established members

Arm them with sidewinders and let God do the rest. J-8 RCS will be very hard to detect by jets due to very low RCS because of small size. Arm them with cruise and glide bombs that can be dropped from LOC and go hundreds of KMs into India.

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

With the draw-down in Afghanistan expected over the next 15 months, the threat of ISIS and other insurgents attacking Pakistani posts along the border and inside of Pakistan may increase. To counter this threat, Pakistan could use its JF-17s for precision bombing and its K-8 for limited CAS, but the threat of enemy fire could damage these planes, which were not designed for this role.

While the first rebuttal to such a proposal will be cost. As stated in this old thread.
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/su-25-attack-aircraft.82315/

The SU-25 not only gave deliver a punch, but take one as well. It was designed as a tank killer, so along with dealing with irregular forces, it can be used to repel a limited conventional attack by our eastern neighbor, especially if used in conjunction with EW JF-17s as top cover.

The Su-25 is a 50 year old design, and has recently been battle tested in Syria over the last few years. New Weapons and tactics will also be available to maximize its utility. Russia maybe willing to share its knowledge for a price or an arms sale of PGMs.

The Ukrainians are a Pakistani ally, and have sold 3-4 Su-25s (from their reserve stockpile of 30) to Macedonia. Should Pakistan approach them to buy, a decent number, such as 24 su-25s with a promise for a SU-25 refurbishment contract?

To make up for numbers beyond these 24 Su-25s, PAF fleet of JF-17s can be used from standoff ranges with PGMs. The Su-25s will really be used to get in close, and make sure effective firepower is used on enemy forces, and civilians are not harmed as much as possible.

The pilots need to be protected adequately, and the plane needs to fly for a long endurance to pick off targets of opportunity. It's ability to fly from unprepared fields will allow it to follow the troops any where they travel, shortening reaction times.

Buying from Ukraine opens up the option to customize the planes to use our munitions or any other munition open to us. for example, Arming them with modern precision rockets such as the Turkish one will minimize the cost over using expensive missiles like the hellfire, and allow more rockets to be carried, so more targets an be engaged in a single sortie.

Why not this ...

 

[Philip the Arab]

Why not this ...

Too expensive and uses a lot of US made components that are prone to embargos.

 

[litman]

only stealth fighters will be effective in deep strike roles in modern day air combat. any other air craft unless it is a part of large strike package of about 40-50 air crafts will be shot down by enemy interceptors and SAMs within few kms of entering enemy's air space. the facility of large no of jets for strike package will be available only in the initial days of war. for limited strike role mirage with their H2 and H4 are good enough.

 

[Philip the Arab]

You know what? Mushashak

only stealth fighters will be effective in deep strike roles in modern day air combat. any other air craft unless it is a part of large strike package of about 40-50 air crafts will be shot down by enemy interceptors and SAMs within few kms of entering enemy's air space. the facility of large no of jets for strike package will be available only in the initial days of war. for limited strike role mirage with their H2 and H4 are good enough.

Don't go deep into India. Develop a long range cruise missile that can be launched from inside Pakistan and hit targets far inside India.

 

[Umar27]

Arm them with sidewinders and let God do the rest. J-8 RCS will be very hard to detect by jets due to very low RCS because of small size. Arm them with cruise and glide bombs that can be dropped from LOC and go hundreds of KMs into India.

Sounds Good on LOC scenario actually
In terms of low rcs

 

[mingle]

Too late now