Should Buddhas Blasted by the Taliban Be Rebuilt?

[Flintlock]

^^^See now that's where it all starts....calling non-muslims as ignorants. That's what leads to all the trouble and the fighting over who is the purest-est muslim.

 

[Awesome]

So what should we call them?

Royalty!

Geez.

 

[Awesome]

^^^See now that's where it all starts....calling non-muslims as ignorants. That's what leads to all the trouble and the fighting over who is the purest-est muslim.

No thats where "choice" starts.

If I thought you had it right, I would be a hindu. I think you are WRONG and I am RIGHT and that's why I am ME and not you.

We can live differently, I got no problem. I'll always say you're wrong, thats it. You can say the same too, but the only problem would be when you shove your views upon me or start having a problem with me calling you wrong all the time and convincing some of your guys that you're wrong along the way.

The problem starts where my RIGHT overshadows your WRONG .

 

[Flintlock]

No thats where "choice" starts.

If I thought you had it right, I would be a hindu. I think you are WRONG and I am RIGHT and that's why I am ME and not you.

We can live differently, I got no problem. I'll always say you're wrong, thats it. You can say the same too, but the only problem would be when you shove your views upon me or start having a problem with me calling you wrong all the time and convincing some of your guys that you're wrong along the way.

The problem starts where my RIGHT overshadows your WRONG .

Well, in Hinduism, everybody is right (with certain restrictions imposed by the country's laws of course)....lol...so let a thousand sects bloom!

 

[Awesome]

Well, in Hinduism, everybody is right (with certain restrictions imposed by the country's laws of course)....lol...so let a thousand sects bloom!

Thus I always say, Hindus are a confused bunch. So much so, that everything is Khuda, and everyone's Khuda is Khuda. For some reaons Hinduism strives to multiply the number of Gods rather than narrow it down to the select few. Although the Hindu Trinity all points to ONE God as well in a Christianity like - Triun nature. Perhaps better defined than Christianity at least.

Anyway, that is harmless. I can just not agree with it and I don't need to see a "problem" appearing in that.

 

[Flintlock]

Thus I always say, Hindus are a confused bunch. So much so, that everything is Khuda, and everyone's Khuda is Khuda. For some reaons Hinduism strives to multiply the number of Gods rather than narrow it down to the select few. Although the Hindu Trinity all points to ONE God as well in a Christianity like - Triun nature. Perhaps better defined than Christianity at least.

Anyway, that is harmless. I can just not agree with it and I don't need to see a "problem" appearing in that.

Not at all. A devout hindu is never confused about his beliefs.
The variety of beliefs among hindus may appear confusing to you, that's all.

All in all, its a great way to prevent conflict.

I can be atheist and still call myself a hindu with no contradictions whatsoever.

However, its very, very bad for social cohesion.

 

[Flintlock]

The point is, that there is no way that 1.1 billion people are going to have the same idea about god.
So you'd might as well give up and let people do what they want.

 

[Sadia Qalandar]

As-salaam aleikum, all!

Personally I think the destruction of the Buddhas from a Buddhist point of view is inconsequential, because the Buddha is everywhere...and everything is Buddha. Buddhists will likely take a compassionate stance and rue the destruction of the Buddhas but would not spend the money to re-build them for the dubious satisfaction of pissing off a few one-eyed Mullahs. There are better ways to alleviate suffering in the world. Rather, we should have compassion for Mullah Omar and his ilk who ordered the destruction of the Buddhas in the first place. In the Qu'ran it is said "He has made compassion (al-rahma) an inviolable law for Himself" (6:54). We should try to understand the roots of the rage and/or the roots of ignorance that drove this man to this crime, to destroy what he must have perceived as a colossal eyesore -- a pair of stone idols.

It's interesting to know some of the recent history of Bamiyan valley, so we can put the Talibs' undeniably savage - qabih - act in proper perspective. Ahmed Rashid is my source here.

Rashid writes that in the late 1990s the Buddha grottoes were home to thousands of Hazara refugees who had fled Kabul after the Taliban took the city in 1996. Because they were Shias, the Taliban treated them as munafaqeen. Also, the Hazara women wore skirts and high-heeled boots, which didn't sit well with the Taliban's extremely puritanical and perverted gender policies.

For centuries the Bamiyan Buddhas did not bother the Hazaras who inhabit the valley. They considered it a permanent landmark and in fact before the Mongols, Bamiyan was an important serai for the camel caravans on the old Silk Road. In the 1960s the colossal Buddhas had garnered some tourism income for the inhabitants of the valley as they happened to be situated on the famous Hippie Trail and attracted a lot of visitors from Europe, not to mention pilgrims from Japan, China, Korea, and SE Asia. There was even a university in Bamiyan.

Rashid writes also that the valley of Bamiyan was blockaded by the Taliban in August 1997 and at that time the inhabitants, all 300,000 of them, were already at the brink of starvation from poor crop yields. The Taliban put them over the edge by refusing to allow WFP relief convoys into the valley. Is this any way to treat your fellow Muslim brothers and sisters? No less evil than the Spanish Inquisition. Not to mention that "The public amputation of limbs, lashing and stoning of women and executions became weekly events in Kabul and Kandahar." The Taliban, p. 70. The final straw was when the Taliban massacred the people of Bamiyan in 1998, an event unprecedented in Afghan history.

The two Buddhas had stood for 2,000 years and had withstood the assault of the Mongols. Only uneducated savages like Mullah Omar and his radical thugs would consider some stone sculptures a threat to their own twisted ersatz Salafi faith. It's evident that these Talibs are not Muslims if they consider some inanimate relic of a bygone age a threat to their own power or they would have left them alone. You don't see the ppl of Pakistan blowing up Taxila, Takht-i-Bahi, Mohenjo Daro and Harappa! What a pity that these crazy militants are now starting to do the same thing in the Swat valley, the cradle of Gandhara. The Ministry of Culture should be taking every precaution to protect Pakistan's national treasures from this roving vandals.

The militants' regressive and reactionary Sharia policies are that uniquely perverted brand of Islam exported by Riyadh -- Wahhabi / Salafist -- and not the indigenous Naqshbandiya and Qaderiyah order of Sufism that prevailed in Afghanistan for centuries, which was moderate and tolerant. Non-Pashtuns were never in danger of extermination in Afghanistan before the Taliban came on the scene. Just as the historical Islam was stamped with the character of a combative religion, the Taliban and their mercenaries feel it's their duty to perpetuate this wanton destruction to create a pseudo/narco caliphate.

Allah hafiz

 

[genmirajborgza786]

Royalty!

Geez.

no chief the nawabs were nothing to do with royalty but a curse for the Muslims of the subcontinent ISLAM is was not presented by a royal family show offs no way ISLAM was presented by one of the most humble ,honorable, down to earth people led by the MERCY to humanity a beautiful person Prophet Muhammad ( pbuh) with beautiful teachings with beautiful people from among the mass and not from among the Good For Nothing Royalty Class ! sorry but its true history is an evidence that ISLAM shined at the hands of humble people and we Muslims lost our glory due to our nawab ness the mughals who once ruled with glory and blessings of the the masses became so uselessly royal & loyal to their sick money wasting life style that we are suffering for their deeds till today to you this might be royalty but i call it plain and simple stupidity's.

 

[roadrunner]

As-salaam aleikum, all!

Personally I think the destruction of the Buddhas from a Buddhist point of view is inconsequential, because the Buddha is everywhere...and everything is Buddha. Buddhists will likely take a compassionate stance and rue the destruction of the Buddhas but would not spend the money to re-build them for the dubious satisfaction of pissing off a few one-eyed Mullahs. There are better ways to alleviate suffering in the world. Rather, we should have compassion for Mullah Omar and his ilk who ordered the destruction of the Buddhas in the first place. In the Qu'ran it is said "He has made compassion (al-rahma) an inviolable law for Himself" (6:54). We should try to understand the roots of the rage and/or the roots of ignorance that drove this man to this crime, to destroy what he must have perceived as a colossal eyesore -- a pair of stone idols.

It's interesting to know some of the recent history of Bamiyan valley, so we can put the Talibs' undeniably savage - qabih - act in proper perspective. Ahmed Rashid is my source here.

Rashid writes that in the late 1990s the Buddha grottoes were home to thousands of Hazara refugees who had fled Kabul after the Taliban took the city in 1996. Because they were Shias, the Taliban treated them as munafaqeen. Also, the Hazara women wore skirts and high-heeled boots, which didn't sit well with the Taliban's extremely puritanical and perverted gender policies.

For centuries the Bamiyan Buddhas did not bother the Hazaras who inhabit the valley. They considered it a permanent landmark and in fact before the Mongols, Bamiyan was an important serai for the camel caravans on the old Silk Road. In the 1960s the colossal Buddhas had garnered some tourism income for the inhabitants of the valley as they happened to be situated on the famous Hippie Trail and attracted a lot of visitors from Europe, not to mention pilgrims from Japan, China, Korea, and SE Asia. There was even a university in Bamiyan.

Rashid writes also that the valley of Bamiyan was blockaded by the Taliban in August 1997 and at that time the inhabitants, all 300,000 of them, were already at the brink of starvation from poor crop yields. The Taliban put them over the edge by refusing to allow WFP relief convoys into the valley. Is this any way to treat your fellow Muslim brothers and sisters? No less evil than the Spanish Inquisition. Not to mention that "The public amputation of limbs, lashing and stoning of women and executions became weekly events in Kabul and Kandahar." The Taliban, p. 70. The final straw was when the Taliban massacred the people of Bamiyan in 1998, an event unprecedented in Afghan history.

The two Buddhas had stood for 2,000 years and had withstood the assault of the Mongols. Only uneducated savages like Mullah Omar and his radical thugs would consider some stone sculptures a threat to their own twisted ersatz Salafi faith. It's evident that these Talibs are not Muslims if they consider some inanimate relic of a bygone age a threat to their own power or they would have left them alone. You don't see the ppl of Pakistan blowing up Taxila, Takht-i-Bahi, Mohenjo Daro and Harappa! What a pity that these crazy militants are now starting to do the same thing in the Swat valley, the cradle of Gandhara. The Ministry of Culture should be taking every precaution to protect Pakistan's national treasures from this roving vandals.

The militants' regressive and reactionary Sharia policies are that uniquely perverted brand of Islam exported by Riyadh -- Wahhabi / Salafist -- and not the indigenous Naqshbandiya and Qaderiyah order of Sufism that prevailed in Afghanistan for centuries, which was moderate and tolerant. Non-Pashtuns were never in danger of extermination in Afghanistan before the Taliban came on the scene. Just as the historical Islam was stamped with the character of a combative religion, the Taliban and their mercenaries feel it's their duty to perpetuate this wanton destruction to create a pseudo/narco caliphate.

Allah hafiz

That's quite a piece written there Sadia!

I would say there's quite a bit of propaganda and some truths in it though. It's true that Taliban style Islam is not Afghanistan grown, but was imported into the area in the 80s by the Americans, the Saudis and Pakistan (Pakistan certainly has also suffered from this mistake).

On the Taliban and their methods of justice, treatment of women, I think it's a re-hash of propaganda. the Tajiks were just about as backward, as were the Hazara (who were and are certainly no angels as your piece looks to be making out). Their method of execution was barbaric, but the Taliban are not sophisticated people with sophisticated technology. They don't have lethal injection there, they have bullets, but an execution is an execution. It is ironic the way people are critical of the Taliban for executing people when people are being executed all over the world.

On the subject of the Buddhas. Obviously they were wrong by worldly standards. But let's say you and your family are starving. Rich pilgrims come to a stone statue of Buddha to worship him, kiss his feet, then shower him with gifts, and then go back leaving you to starve a little more. Then human nature will make you hate the statue which is basically just rock, for not valuing human life more than pieces of rock. Though I'm not in a position where I'm starving, I'm sure that if I were, I could have thoughts about blowing up a statue. It's all very easy to sit here in our plush houses, with out thousand dollar computers wired up to the internet, and say it's outrageous, an act cultural criminality, but if you were in the position of the starving person, can you honestly say you would not have blown up the statue also..in a gesture of pure rage irrespective of religion?

 

[Sadia Qalandar]

roadrunner you are amazing, meri yaarr................
you are bilkul correct, in your assessment, that's why I have incredible rage and yet at the same time, unfathomable compassion for the Taliban. And I'm an American/French girl who worked in Pakistan for 3 years, and married to a Sindhi. Go figure. That explains my compassion for these pp....in fact last year I travelled to Pakistan (N. Areas, mostly, but also to Pesh and Swat) and I am telling you my facts are not incorrect but the sectarian violence is bohut worrisome. Khudah hafiz

 

[Goodperson]

By creating situation of wherin American and western forces had to step in Afganisthan the Talibans have dug thier own graves.
They basicaly destroyed Budhas not because of Islam but to show to the world how they treat foreign people ( here the relics of Budhas) .
Buddhist people (fair number of them are in China and Japan) would like to rebuild them I don't think there will be shortage of funds or Will. Infact they would become sign of defeated Taliban.

 

[Vinod2070]

That's quite a piece written there Sadia!

I would say there's quite a bit of propaganda and some truths in it though. It's true that Taliban style Islam is not Afghanistan grown, but was imported into the area in the 80s by the Americans, the Saudis and Pakistan (Pakistan certainly has also suffered from this mistake).

On the Taliban and their methods of justice, treatment of women, I think it's a re-hash of propaganda. the Tajiks were just about as backward, as were the Hazara (who were and are certainly no angels as your piece looks to be making out). Their method of execution was barbaric, but the Taliban are not sophisticated people with sophisticated technology. They don't have lethal injection there, they have bullets, but an execution is an execution. It is ironic the way people are critical of the Taliban for executing people when people are being executed all over the world.

On the subject of the Buddhas. Obviously they were wrong by worldly standards. But let's say you and your family are starving. Rich pilgrims come to a stone statue of Buddha to worship him, kiss his feet, then shower him with gifts, and then go back leaving you to starve a little more. Then human nature will make you hate the statue which is basically just rock, for not valuing human life more than pieces of rock. Though I'm not in a position where I'm starving, I'm sure that if I were, I could have thoughts about blowing up a statue. It's all very easy to sit here in our plush houses, with out thousand dollar computers wired up to the internet, and say it's outrageous, an act cultural criminality, but if you were in the position of the starving person, can you honestly say you would not have blown up the statue also..in a gesture of pure rage irrespective of religion?

How is any of this relevant? The Buddhas were not destroyed by the starving locals but by the fanatic Taliban for their religious zeal. And they spent good amount of effort and resources to do this. Resources which were better spent in that forlorn country!

The poor have no time to blow up statues or anyone. If every poor all over the world were to do that, the world will be a different place. Most of these worst fanatics actually do not come from poor backgrounds. It is only the foot soldiers who are poor. Osama is not poor by any means.

An obvious attempt at obfuscation! And trying to run away from the truth.

 

[Flintlock]

That's quite a piece written there Sadia!

I would say there's quite a bit of propaganda and some truths in it though. It's true that Taliban style Islam is not Afghanistan grown, but was imported into the area in the 80s by the Americans, the Saudis and Pakistan (Pakistan certainly has also suffered from this mistake).

On the Taliban and their methods of justice, treatment of women, I think it's a re-hash of propaganda. the Tajiks were just about as backward, as were the Hazara (who were and are certainly no angels as your piece looks to be making out). Their method of execution was barbaric, but the Taliban are not sophisticated people with sophisticated technology. They don't have lethal injection there, they have bullets, but an execution is an execution. It is ironic the way people are critical of the Taliban for executing people when people are being executed all over the world.

On the subject of the Buddhas. Obviously they were wrong by worldly standards. But let's say you and your family are starving. Rich pilgrims come to a stone statue of Buddha to worship him, kiss his feet, then shower him with gifts, and then go back leaving you to starve a little more. Then human nature will make you hate the statue which is basically just rock, for not valuing human life more than pieces of rock. Though I'm not in a position where I'm starving, I'm sure that if I were, I could have thoughts about blowing up a statue. It's all very easy to sit here in our plush houses, with out thousand dollar computers wired up to the internet, and say it's outrageous, an act cultural criminality, but if you were in the position of the starving person, can you honestly say you would not have blown up the statue also..in a gesture of pure rage irrespective of religion?

Have you considered that perhaps the only reason the Buddha was still partially intact (it had been vandalized pretty badly) is because dynamite had not been invented as yet?

The Afghan warlords had a history of defacing images and idols, and perhaps it was only a matter of time?

As for "starving people blowing up statues", gee....the Taliban warlords were hardly starving. They had the money to get hundreds of kilos of RDX or dynamite or whatever they used to blow up the statues.
The real starving people were the millions of farmers in Afghanistan, who had no hand in blowing them up.

Also, as someone pointed out, it had been quite a while since rich pilgrims "showered the statue with gifts", whatever that means....it was abandoned long time ago.

 

[Majnun]

OK, to Stealth Assassin.
It sounds as if, basically, you mean you don't want the Buddhas rebuilt.
I don't think they should be rebuilt either, because once they've been destroyed, it can't be rebuilt in modern times. The Buddha statues were ancient, and that was a quality of theirs, so it wouldn't be the same if they were rebuilt, as they would be rebuilt in modern times.