Shimon Peres: Israel and Iran could negotiate

[Battle of Kursk]

So, You mean Zionists didn't force Palestinians o leave their homes in 1948 ? They decided to give you almost 80% of their land in order to live in Gaza ?

The truth is that only a small minority of the Arab Palestinians were forced to leave by Israeli forces. The majority left by their own right escaping the war the Arab Militants started (refugees in a war is not a rare thing). Some Jews would have fled as well, if only they had a place to go.
Let me remind you that at the time the combined forces of Syria, Egypt, Jordan as well as forces from Lebanon, Iraq, Sudan were on their way to destroy the newly founded state Israel. The Arab leaders were calling the Palestinian Arabs to leave the land so they will not be in the way of slaughtering the Jews.

“I personally wish that the Jews do not drive us to this war, as this will be a war of extermination and momentous massacre which will be spoken of like the Tartar massacre or the Crusader wars.”
- Azzam Pasha, Secretary-General of the Arab League
Akhbar al-Yom, Egypt, October 11, 1947

Ask yourself than why did so many Arabs never left? 20% of current Israel's population is Arab. That's because those who chose to never leave were mostly left alone. If you claim that Israel has forcefully exiled so many Arabs than how do you explain above 100,000 who were here at the end of the war?

The holy land you're talking about is where those poor Palestinians had been living for more than 1000 years before you forced them to leave .

At the mid 18th century Most of this land was barren, the few settled centers were far between. The Jew and Arab population in the holy land was more or less equal. Most of nowadays Arab Palestinians are decedents of immigrants from the last centuries, just like most of the Jews.
Most of the Arabs came here in two great immigration surges. The first one in the 18th century as workers to build the Cairo-Istanbul railway, and a second in the beginning of the 20th century to work at the Jewish enterprises which were fueled by European Jews money.

A video with many maps and references to sources which sums it up:

[video] Free Palestine, and we will conquer the world - YouTube[/video]

Hamas minister of interior admitting this himself:

The problem arises when your basing your historical knowledge on hearsay and propaganda rather then facts. I don't blame you, it's not easy to go against what "everyone knows" and search for hard data.

 

[gangsta_rap]

Ask yourself than why did so many Arabs never left? 20% of current Israel's population is Arab. That's because those who chose to never leave were mostly left alone. If you claim that Israel has forcefully exiled so many Arabs than how do you explain above 100,000 who were here at the end of the war?

Are they actual Arabs or just Mizrahi Jews?

 

[Battle of Kursk]

@iranigirl2

we can't achieve regional hegemony if we are friends with Israel, because Israel/US want the same exact regional hegemony that we want. Our interest in the region is in direct conflict with Israel/US. our policy has been consistent with both the Shah and IRI.

What do you mean by regional hegemony?
Looking at Turkey, who for a very long time worked together with Israel:
They have a stronger military than us, I think no one is going to question that. Though ours is probably more modernized.
They have much more influence than us in the region, cooperation with Egypt, Syria (before rebellion), KSA etc.
Israel has an edge in technology, but here cooperation would only benefit everyone.

Iran is even farther from Israel, it is even more geographically apart from us than Turkey which is connected via the Mediterranean. Between us lie Arab lands who wouldn't bow to Iran anyway.

I can't see a fundamental reason why we can't work together, but I would like to hear your take on this.

Are they actual Arabs or just Mizrahi Jews?

Arab-Palestinians if you prefer. Most are Muslim with a small Christian minority.

 

[Battle of Kursk]

@iranigirl2

I wasn't sarcastic. I would sincerely like to know why do you think Israel and Iran can never work together.
I promise not to judge what you say, if that makes it more likely for you to reply.

 

[Vlad.Nikoleich]

Kursk actually makes sense. Iran - Israel cooperation will only be a matter of time--provided the current issues don't lead to an all out war between the two of course.
Iran would still have direct conflict of interests with the US (the Gulf Arab's main patron), even if the regime were to go though.

 

[twilight]

you are wrong ! every year Jews celebrate of murdering of Iranian people 2500 years ago ....Read about Purim Purim - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


This shows how savage they are...they compensated Cyrus by killing of Persians ...


Zionist are deserved only two things : concentration camps and gas chambers ....!

that massacre become "the beginning of the End " for Hakhamaneshi empire ... so many wise and royal Iranian died because some girl deceive an moron ...

anyway , it is belong to 2500 years ago ... most of our problem in past 200 years are come from Jews .... they wanted to eliminated Persian because they see Persian as their Armageddon enemy ... Even Evangelist have religious problem with Iran because they see Iran as Armageddon enemy thanks to their own bible ...

 

[ResurgentIran]

Kursk actually makes sense. Iran - Israel cooperation will only be a matter of time--provided the current issues don't lead to an all out war between the two of course.
Iran would still have direct conflict of interests with the US (the Gulf Arab's main patron), even if the regime were to go though.

Iran-Israel "cooperation" is not a matter of time.
The collapse of Israel is a matter of time.

 

[Battle of Kursk]

that massacre become "the beginning of the End " for Hakhamaneshi empire ... so many wise and royal Iranian died because some girl deceive an moron ...

There was no massacre, or do you also believe in Loki and his children the world serpent and the wolf?
It is ancient mythology, but somehow I am not surprised some people will use even to farther current hatred.
BTW, if you accept that there was a massacre you must also accept the the Persian of the time were planning to execute a genocide.
Oh also according to the bible Israel belongs to the Jews, do you believe that as well, or are you just selecting the bits you like?

 

[BeyondHeretic]

I think everyone knows well what will happen with iran and Israel , no one in the next 8 years will instigate Israel because first of all ahmedinejad was a total nutjob and second rohani said exclusively in his press conference that he wants "ta'amol" (diplomacy) with all nations and that means Israel , not Venezuela or Ecuador ; So you see iran will lose the momentum while Israel will continue to bark and so that will be the beginning of the end like twilight suggested.

 

[Vlad.Nikoleich]

Iran-Israel "cooperation" is not a matter of time.
The collapse of Israel is a matter of time.

Let's put aside the ideological bull crap for a min, shall we?
Iran reached out to the Arabs immediately after the revolution, called for a joint front against the Israelis. The Arabs never believed this; not even for a sec did they appreciate the hand that was extended to them, even for a trial period to, say, judge Iran's intentions. Their answer was a big no from the beginning: They bankrolled Saddam's invasion of Iran. The fact is, apart from Hezbollah, and to some extent PIJ and Hamas, Iran's success in the Arab world has been limited. It has got something to do with Sunni beliefs vs those of the infidel Shiites.
Israel used to support Iran, in terms of selling weapons and asserting political pressure on the US, in its war against the Arab world; was it ironic or a natural outcome of the situation? You tell me.
Now this is a rant and I accept that. None the less there is some truth to it.

Soon the 'conventional gap' between Iran and Gulf Arabs will be impossible to ignore, if it already is not at that stage. You'd say Arabs are incompetent; that's ok with me and I agree with that, but it doesn't negate the question: How will the Arabs behave when they become certain of the supremacy of their shiny American, German, French or British toys against those of Iran? 10-20 years from now, when finally the IRIAF ceases to exist?
This is the threat facing Iran. Not Israel.

 

[ResurgentIran]

Let's put aside the ideological bull crap for a min, shall we?
Iran reached out to the Arabs immediately after the revolution, called for a joint front against the Israelis. The Arabs never believed this; not even for a sec did they appreciate the hand that was extended to them, even for a trial period to, say, judge Iran's intentions. Their answer was a big no from the beginning: They bankrolled Saddam's invasion of Iran. The fact is, apart from Hezbollah, and to some extent PIJ and Hamas, Iran's success in the Arab world has been limited. It has got something to do with Sunni beliefs vs those of the infidel Shiites.
Israel used to support Iran, in terms of selling weapons and asserting political pressure on the US, in its war against the Arab world; was it ironic or a natural outcome of the situation? You tell me.
Now this is a rant and I accept that. None the less there is some truth to it.

Soon the 'unconventional gap' between Iran and Gulf Arabs will be impossible to ignore, if it already is not at that stage. You'd say Arabs are incompetent; that's ok with me and I agree with that, but it doesn't negate the question: How will the Arabs behave when they become certain of the supremacy of their shiny American, German, French or British toys against those of Iran? 10-20 years from now, when finally the IRIAF ceases to exist?
This is the threat facing Iran. Not Israel.

Its not ideological bullcrap you numbnuts because Im not even religious or ideological in any sense, in the first place. I am an agnostic.
I see it from a strategic and REALIST point of view. Would you call people like John Mearsheimer ideological? No, he is a geostrategist and realist.
As for the rest of your non-sensical rambling about Arabs, Sunni-Shia, conventional capability bla bla bla needs no response, because it is totally irrelevant.

And btw, it is not Iran which will cause Israels demise. Political zionism has run its course and exhausted itself. Israel, as a result of its own actions, will cause it. Israel, in the entity it exists today, has overreached.
In the 21st century an apartheid is not politically sustainable. Israels best chance of survival as a functioning state was two state solution, but the situation has progressed (or regressed, depending on hwo you look at it) to a point where that solution is dead. Things might seem normal for people today, but there will come a time (and sooner that people think) where word opinion AND even governments, including Western ones, will turn against Israeli apartheid. Much like they did against the White Afrikaaner rule in apartheid South Africa.

So Im not talking about military action against Israel or anything like that. How is that even possible with Israeli nuclear weapons? In fact, some argue it is their nuclear arms that has caused Israel to overreach, which will ultimately result in its collapse. I think that is one of many factors.

Some people ought to get this through their thick skull, and realise not everything is about religion/ideology.

Soviet Union with their massive nuclear arsenal overreached, and could not sustain itself. Poof, collapse.
South Africa with their racist white rule and nuclear weapons overreached and could not sustain itself. Poof, collapse.
Israel with its facist and racist regime and nuclear arsenal will not ,in the long term, be able to sustain itself. Simply because of the nature of the regime. Poof, collapse (eventually)

Its so simple. No need to put an religious/ideological label on it. Thats not gonna help matters.

 

[Vlad.Nikoleich]

Granted, John Mearsheimer and Stephan Walt are both realists. That's why if they were Iranian, they'd probably be all in for Iran-Israel cooperation.

Will Israel with its vast Media*/lobbying power + Holocaust self-victimization industry ever be called an apartheid state in the near future? I wouldn't bet on that.
---
*Reactions to Mearsheimer-Walt book comes to one's mind, for an example!

 

[ResurgentIran]

Granted, John Mearsheimer and Stephan Walt are both realists. That's why if they were Iranian, they'd probably be all in for Iran-Israel cooperation.

Will Israel with its vast Media*/lobbying power + Holocaust self-victimization industry ever be called an apartheid state in the near future? I wouldn't bet on that.
---
*Reactions to Mearsheimer-Walt book comes to one's mind, for an example!

American Jews are disattaching themselves from Israel. Look at the opinion polls.
Meaning the pro-Zionist media has not been able to keep the lids.
Do you know why? Because of the internet. Free flow of information. More and more people are not reading newspapers anymore, and instead going online for information.
Eventually, even papers like Washington Post etc will have to cover the events more truthfully.

True, AIPAC is very powerful. And they will be lobbying the US to block any resolution in UN, and stuff like that.
But their power will erode, and the extreme voices will be marginalized, over time. Again, apartheid is not sustainable. Especially not it the conflict is a global matter, which this is. Kinda remarkable, such a tiny little land but so much world wide attention to it.
This will be a global movement. Trust me on this.

And because of more Jewish people turning against Israel, it will be that much harder to use the holocause card. It is loosing its legitimacy. There will come a time, when Netanyahu will be known as one of the the worst anti-Semites.
Btw Im not saying this all will happen soon. This is a process. I just think its sooner than people expect. Hard to give a time-line on it.
But rest assured, the tide has turned and pendulum is no longer swinging in Israel's favour.

 

[Battle of Kursk]

And btw, it is not Iran which will cause Israels demise. Political zionism has run its course and exhausted itself. Israel, as a result of its own actions, will cause it. Israel, in the entity it exists today, has overreached.
In the 21st century an apartheid is not politically sustainable. Israels best chance of survival as a functioning state was two state solution, but the situation has progressed (or regressed, depending on hwo you look at it) to a point where that solution is dead. Things might seem normal for people today, but there will come a time (and sooner that people think) where word opinion AND even governments, including Western ones, will turn against Israeli apartheid. Much like they did against the White Afrikaaner rule in apartheid South Africa.

The thing is, There is no apartheid in Israel. Yes some ignorant hateful individuals, or some brainwashed people may believe that, but any person who would investigate would see the truth with ease.
The western governments are not dumb and they are certainly not uninformed, so they will never believe this propaganda you're spreading.

Soviet Union with their massive nuclear arsenal overreached, and could not sustain itself. Poof, collapse.
South Africa with their racist white rule and nuclear weapons overreached and could not sustain itself. Poof, collapse.

USSR collapsed due to ethnically heterogeneous people, economically unsustainable the communist system, none of these are relevant for Israel,
SA has relinquished nuclear weapons a while before collapsing so this is irrelevant.

Israel with its facist and racist regime and nuclear arsenal will not ,in the long term, be able to sustain itself. Simply because of the nature of the regime. Poof, collapse (eventually)

Israel is fascist and racist only in your deluded mind, this is not supported by real facts.
Even the majority of the Israeli Arabs admit that Israel is a democracy.
Israel's population is significantly less racist of Iranian regime, we had an Arab winner in "the voice" for example and a black beauty queen, both this year.
Our previous government had an Arab Muslims as a minister, does Iran have Minority ministers?

too bad you prefer fantasies over reality, it doesn't have much real effect in internet debates, but it is going to sink you if you act likewise in your personal life.

 

[Vlad.Nikoleich]

Kursk,
ResurgentIran is citing John Mearsheimer, who is an American political scientist. According to him either Israel finally accepts a two state solution or it will inevitably turn into an apartheid state, because there will be a large number of second class citizens, i.e. the Palestinians (both inside Israel and the Palestinian Territories), in this state. He believes the world would not tolerate such a state.
Resurgent is oversimplifying things (and planting ideological rants in between), but this should give you the idea.