Shenyang J-15 aircraft carrier-based aircraft

[cn_habs]

Pull my hair and call me Sally but this is the third such thread in several days.....leave it and move on.

How much do you guys even pay our Indian comrades for all this non-stop China-bashing and trolling?

 

[Akasa]

It's funny how the source even thinks it's qualified to comment (rather illogically) on the J-15 when it doesn't even know what the J-15 is.

For people who have the ability to go online and do some basic research, they will learn that the J-15 uses completely different avionics, sensors, avionics, and FBW than the Su-33. It's pretty much a J-11B on a carrier. In fact, many people mistook the J-15 as the J-11BH. The airframe also supposedly has extensive modifications for RCS reductions.

 

[MilSpec]

Why Russia was so scared for J15 and call it was not able to compete with Su-33 at once? it's just a prototype

The question remains why did chinese have to Copy SU27, su 33, mig 21, in the first place. can you answer that.

 

[Akasa]

The question remains why did chinese have to Copy SU27, su 33, mig 21, in the first place. can you answer that.

We improved the MiG-21 as the J-7. The new variants have been chosen by many air forces to replace their MiG-21 fleet. The J-11 and J-11A are also improvements of the Su-27SK. Both J-7 and J-11/A serve secondary roles only.

J-15 isn't a copy of the Su-33. It's a development of the J-11B, which itself is an indigenous fighter except for its Su-27SK airframe. Everything besides the airframe of the J-11B and J-15 is of indigenous technology and design.

 

[CHIN]

it is great, we have our real advanced planes, but most people don't know .

 

[Akasa]

it is great, we have our real advanced planes, but most people don't know .

No one needs to know.

 

[Aramsogo]

Curious... China offered to buy only 14 Su-33s from Russia?

Definitely, China was not planning to use these meager 14 Su-33s in strike formation in the PLAAF. Its main intention is pretty obvious here.

And also, Russia did not primarily reject the offer because of production line related costs issues. They had other reasonable concerns there.

Yes, China is broke. It could only afford 14 Su-33 and couldn't come up with the money for 24 Su-33. We are not as rich as you guys.

 

[rcrmj]

The question remains why did chinese have to Copy SU27, su 33, mig 21, in the first place. can you answer that.

when you understand that why india needs to spend billions of money begging russians and isrealy to upgrade their antique fleet of mig-21, mirage-2000, mig-29, and su-30mkis and spending 10s of billions to buy ur future aircraft from Europ then you knwo why china keeps 'coying' out date Su27s

Its called the technological capability and know-how of doing certain savvy high techs which india is far way from that which demonstrated very well by your 'most' advanced LCA and other bunches``

China develops J-11B, J-15 or whatever old soviet planes are just for its air defence sake, now we are living in 21st century the technologies are ever changing with fast pace, so things happening in some countries are quite difficult for those backward countries like the shinning one to understand``got it>?

 

[Speeder 2]

China’s aero defence industry is about 2 decades ( or maybe more) ahead of India, no doubt of that:


India’s best self-made aeroplane is LCA ( still far from into active service yet, if it ever will):

Even though French helped designing LCA, with numerous key systems (engines, radar, weapon, electronics, etc) completely outsourced to the West and with decades of “learning curve”, India’s own Air chief admits that LCA still is a 3rd gen fighter, dubbed as “mig-21 plus”, a far cry from baseline 4th gen fighter like F-16 A/B. The manufacturing tech of LCA is so 60s that anyone can gauge how rough it is by just looking at LCA from the back side.

LCA is a perfect reflection India’s current technological knowhow (about 60s level if we rightfully strip its weapon, radar, engine, electronics of foreign origin) and manufacturing capabilities (the corresponding vintage: 1960s).


Whereas China’s best self-made fighter is J-10B ( in service already).

J-10B is a no doubt 4+ gen by general measures, since J-10A is generally considered as mid level 4th gen beyond F-16 A/B.


So a 3rd gen LCA VS. a 4+ gen J-10B: 2 decades gap, let alone putting J-20 into the picture.


While I criticised J-11B and J-15’s design on the ground that SAC, or China, could have done a much better job than that, they are nonetheless a technological leap from their original Su-27 and Su-33 respectively, considering some of the key technologies inside J-11B and J-15 are about a decade and more ahead of their Su cousins.

Russia’s downplays Chinese J-15 fighter capabilities is disingenuous, because compared to original Su 27 and/or Su33, China mastered, digested and copied the airframe concepts and push them forwards technologically from the inside, whereas India does not even have capabilities to comprehend the original concepts, let alone maintain, or upgrade them slightly, on its own.


This happens not only in aero defence industry , but also in virtually all other industries.


This is also why the West keeps boycotting China on millitary tech and all other civilian high tech, while let India purchase whatever it fancies .

Like China, the West knows that even give India full TOT of F-18, EF, Rafale or whatever weapon or modern consumer products, Indians don’t have the brain and skills to fully understand them.

Look at a decade long India’s MMRCA “roadshow”. Can you imagine the West would let China even take a picture of a baseline F-18 or Rafale within 100 yards?


btw, to fully understand India's sour grapes , other-worldly delusions , knee-jerking and retadred logic on the issue, I recommend this page:

http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/vi...id=0dbdd1118754b1338d0763a9fda65f83&start=760 (page 20)



.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

China’s aero defence industry is about 2 decades ( or maybe more) ahead of India, no doubt of that:


India’s best self-made aeroplane is LCA ( still far from into active service yet, if it ever will):

Even though French helped designing LCA, with numerous key systems (engines, radar, weapon, electronics, etc) completely outsourced to the West and with decades of “learning curve”, India’s own Air chief admits that LCA still is a 3rd gen fighter, dubbed as “mig-21 plus”, a far cry from baseline 4th gen fighter like F-16 A/B. The manufacturing tech of LCA is so 60s that anyone can gauge how rough it is by just looking at LCA from the back side.

LCA is a perfect reflection India’s current technological knowhow (about 60s level if we rightfully strip its weapon, radar, engine, electronics of foreign origin) and manufacturing capabilities (the corresponding vintage: 1960s).


Whereas China’s best self-made fighter is J-10B ( in service already).

J-10B is a no doubt 4+ gen by general measures, since J-10A is generally considered as mid level 4th gen beyond F-16 A/B.


So a 3rd gen LCA VS. a 4+ gen J-10B: 2 decades gap, let alone putting J-20 into the picture.


While I criticised J-11B and J-15’s design on the ground that SAC, or China, could have done a much better job than that, they are nonetheless a technological leap from their original Su-27 and Su-33 respectively, considering some of the key technologies inside J-11B and J-15 are about a decade and more ahead of their Su cousins.

Russia’s downplays Chinese J-15 fighter capabilities is disingenuous, because compared to original Su 27 and/or Su33, China mastered, digested and copied the airframe concepts and push them forwards technologically from the inside, whereas India does not even have capabilities to comprehend the original concepts, let alone maintain, or upgrade them slightly, on its own.


This happens not only in aero defence industry , but also in virtually all other industries.


This is also why the West keeps boycotting China on millitary tech and all other civilian high tech, while let India purchase whatever it fancies .

Like China, the West knows that even give India full TOT of F-18, EF, Rafale or whatever weapon or modern consumer products, Indians don’t have the brain and skills to fully understand them.

Look at a decade long India’s MMRCA “roadshow”. Can you imagine the West would let China even take a picture of a baseline F-18 or Rafale within 100 yards?


btw, to fully understand India's sour grapes , other-worldly delusions , knee-jerking and retadred logic on the issue, I recommend this page:

Bharat Rakshak • View topic - China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011 (page 20)



.

No need to take them seriously, a true capable person would never brag.

 

[Speeder 2]

No need to take them seriously, a true capable person would never brag.

I take them really seiously in all honesty, for the purpose of "OIS" (Off-the-chart IQ Samples).

.

 

[Aramsogo]

Bharat Rakshak • View topic - China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

I love this Bharat site Speeder 2. Very fun read.

My favorite quote is India is the brains, China is the brawn. Didn't realize their country achieved Luxembourg status and the LCA is super-duper and JF-17 was designed by Russians.

 

[MilSpec]

when you understand that why india needs to spend billions of money begging russians and isrealy to upgrade their antique fleet of mig-21, mirage-2000, mig-29, and su-30mkis and spending 10s of billions to buy ur future aircraft from Europ then you knwo why china keeps 'coying' out date Su27s

Its called the technological capability and know-how of doing certain savvy high techs which india is far way from that which demonstrated very well by your 'most' advanced LCA and other bunches``

China develops J-11B, J-15 or whatever old soviet planes are just for its air defence sake, now we are living in 21st century the technologies are ever changing with fast pace, so things happening in some countries are quite difficult for those backward countries like the shinning one to understand``got it>?

Watch you language, your lack of sense is very much evident in your post , you borrow your subsystems for russia, tinker around with it and call it indigenousness, live in that dream and your only customer will be PAF. China is ahead of India in field or aeronautics, agreed but we are trying to build on our own. Our ADA doesn't run to KNAAPO or Irbis for development.

you can drag LCA into this as much as you like, but doesn't really change the fact that your frontline strikers are russian or russain clones

 

[MilSpec]

Bharat Rakshak • View topic - China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

...... and JF-17 was designed by Russians.

What about the project 33 (mig)??

 

[applesauce]

Watch you language, your lack of sense is very much evident in your post , you borrow your subsystems for russia, tinker around with it and call it indigenousness, live in that dream and your only customer will be PAF. China is ahead of India in field or aeronautics, agreed but we are trying to build on our own. Our ADA doesn't run to KNAAPO or Irbis for development.

you can drag LCA into this as much as you like, but doesn't really change the fact that your frontline strikers are russian or russain clones

"your lack of sense is very much evident in your post "

first of all j-7's are sold all over the world as are many other things like k-8's and other arms which is far more than what i can say for your pathetic coutnry,

secondly for all our copying we have far, far more to show for it than india has, we are superior in just about every single field and are becoming self sufficient in those field but of course with the basis that is Russian the new weapon will probably have a Russian feel to them its simply where we started from. Again much much more than what i could say for India, importing bullets anyone?

thirdly, no one is denying we had Russian help, but at least we are capable of tinkering with said system while others cant even build stuff correctly from kits let alone indigenous development, speaking of which "but we are trying to build on our own", you wanna talk about foreign component in your so call indigenous projects like simple wheels and treads?

fourthly yes strikers consist of SU-30 MKK and MK2's but also have JH-7A's and building j-20 which you couldnt do alone, not even in your wet dreams speaking of which, how many indigenous front line air unit DOES YOU COUNTRY HAVE?