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She got accused of blasphemy for telling patients that Jesus will solve their problems

It's quite obvious from audio in video that lady asked patients to convert to Christianism so as they may heal.
In Pakistan no non Muslims are allowed to do public preaching. They can do that only at their religious places. So blasphemy or no blasphemy she do committed crime as per law.
And how bad that women is as she targeted weak patients to spread her missionary agenda.
That still doesn't justify what is being done to her. If Inzimam can harass youhana and lara to become muslims all the time, she should have the freedom to preach too.

This indeed is a matter of shame for us as a nation. When the killers of Mashal Khan are roaming free, this sort of injustice will become a norm.
 
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In principle, I agree with you, but once you ignore the reality on the ground, by that I mean the cultural sensitivities and requirements of a society, you ask for trouble, and you land yourself in more mess then you started with.


So, if we fail to taken into account ground realities, there will be other problems. Having these laws is fine, that is not the issue, it is there implementation, that's the issue. Plus there are no legal ramifications for those who make false allegations, if people knew that they will be in trouble for making false allegations, things would improve.
Obviously a proper holistic approach that looks at the short comings of these laws is the best approach, not just the issues I mentioned. But to get rid of them would open a whole new can of worms. I think it is always better to move in balance, rather then take one side or the other.

I understand your point of view, it makes sense in part. However, I do still disagree.

Pakistan's entire problem has been the placation of the rabid mobs. Same reason why we let extremism fester in our country for decades, until we couldn't. Our society and societal values have become and are still becoming more intolerant and decadent every day. Comes with being uneducated, both in religion and otherwise. Any hope for self enlightenment is folly, IMO. We are at a point where we need a heavier hand and some spine again, exactly like Ops Zarb e Azb. If no course correction is forced on us then we will continue to slip further into this endless pit. Our people are beyond sense and humanity.

The heavier hand is doubly needed given the ramifications of this absolutely un-Islamic and inhumane law. There are Pakistanis, our brothers and sisters, being systematically denied their fundamental rights, if not being killed, in their own country. There can't be any placation here, the authorities need to pull it out, stem and roots. And since they won't do it for obvious reasons, I will vociferously stand against it every chance I get in hopes that at least one other person will hear me and see some sense.

For instance, in Britain blasphemy laws still exist and are enforceable, but they only cover Christianity and Jewish religions, no ne else, as those were the predominant religions when the blasphemy law came into being. Muslims tried to use them during the Satanic verses episode, but they were not successful, because it did not cover Islam.
Those laws have become ineffectual because the society has changed over time, and, it is not longer a sensitive issue. Obviously once it was, otherwise, those law would not have been introduced.

Exactly so. The society changed itself. We are not doing that and won't be for any foreseeable future. We are not them. We need an authority to force us, as is the government's job.

Also, the blasphemy laws in England were repealed back in 2008. Scotland and North Ireland are in the process of repealing them. The last punishment carried out was back in 1841 with a prison sentence. The last conviction was back in 1977 with a suspended prison sentence.

BTW, the British were the ones who introduced this law in the subcontinent as well.

In India, they forced secularism down people throats, but it was not, and is not suited to that society. That forced environment built support for the RSS and other Hindu organisations, and gave birth to the rise of BJP, because in essence Indian society is very conservative, with Hindu values.

I would argue the opposite for India. The RSS and other extremist Hindu organizations have existed with massive support for almost a century now. The RSS was formed in 1925. The BJP was effectively formed in 1951 through its predecessor, the Bharatiya Jana Sangh. It were the Indian authorities and laws keeping a lid on them. Over the years, for their own political aims and benefits, the Indian authorities not only loosened their hold on these elements but also emboldened them. Result? The India of today.

It happened much the same way in Pakistan, as well. We were never what we are today. We cannot afford another 200 years to correct ourselves, if at all.
 
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She has every right to practice her faith. Jesus is a prophet

For Muslims but to her Jesus is god or son of god depends on time of day .

Muslims can’t call on creation for help big no no only God we can call . If the lady has said in the name of god you will be healed no problemo but when she said Jesus ie a man 😂 will help you 🤣.. is a big problem . Same for all prophets they can’t help you save you nor heal you nor help you win lotto .

Only God alone Muslims pray to , other religions bar Judaism (I think ) can’t grasp this as they pray to creation and not the creator and ask man or animal or vegetable for help forgetting God all together .
 
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I stopped reading when you started to abuse me..IDIOT
Clearly you are a true muslim. Abuse is all you have learnt and you expect us normal people to listen to you. Simply pathetic. But expected as you are a product of the school of repition not learning. Jahils are rampant with beards short trousers and licence to abuse. You have made it. Welldone.
Keep writing no one is reading

No mate u stopped reading wen u read word Ummah in my post.
 
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I understand your point of view, it makes sense in part. However, I do still disagree.

Pakistan's entire problem has been the placation of the rabid mobs. Same reason why we let extremism fester in our country for decades, until we couldn't. Our society and societal values have become and are still becoming more intolerant and decadent every day. Comes with being uneducated, both in religion and otherwise. Any hope for self enlightenment is folly, IMO. We are at a point where we need a heavier hand and some spine again, exactly like Ops Zarb e Azb. If no course correction is forced on us then we will continue to slip further into this endless pit. Our people are beyond sense and humanity.

The heavier hand is doubly needed given the ramifications of this absolutely un-Islamic and inhumane law. There are Pakistanis, our brothers and sisters, being systematically denied their fundamental rights, if not being killed, in their own country. There can't be any placation here, the authorities need to pull it out, stem and roots. And since they won't do it for obvious reasons, I will vociferously stand against it every chance I get in hopes that at least one other person will hear me and see some sense.



Exactly so. The society changed itself. We are not doing that and won't be for any foreseeable future. We are not them. We need an authority to force us, as is the government's job.

Also, the blasphemy laws in England were repealed back in 2008. Scotland and North Ireland are in the process of repealing them. The last punishment carried out was back in 1841 with a prison sentence. The last conviction was back in 1977 with a suspended prison sentence.

BTW, the British were the ones who introduced this law in the subcontinent as well.



I would argue the opposite for India. The RSS and other extremist Hindu organizations have existed with massive support for almost a century now. The RSS was formed in 1925. The BJP was effectively formed in 1951 through its predecessor, the Bharatiya Jana Sangh. It were the Indian authorities and laws keeping a lid on them. Over the years, for their own political aims and benefits, the Indian authorities not only loosened their hold on these elements but also emboldened them. Result? The India of today.

It happened much the same way in Pakistan, as well. We were never what we are today. We cannot afford another 200 years to correct ourselves, if at all.

I don't really have a counter-statement, because, in essence, we are both coming from the same perspective, I would be just adding a different colour to what you are saying.

The only difference seems to be in the modalities required for course correction. I can see your arguments, and to be honest, they do have a strong emotional pull, even within me.

There are two aspects I wish to highlight, one of our own history, and other of lessons from the Europeans, especially the British. We put far too much blame on our own heads, regarding the extremist elements within our society. I do recognise, that we have to accept our part of the blame, but it is equally important to recognise other factors at the same time, otherwise their part is forgiven by not recognising, and repeating it in the same breath.

Pakistan was never a rich and strong country, strong enough to take on its enemies, but not everything at once. We cannot forget the part the Americans played in the breeding of extremism in Pakistani society, and then leaving us with around 100,000 plus mujahideen's to deal with, not an easy task. Then the Saudi/Iran funded sectarian divisions that played a part in this cooking of the extremist cauldron. These external factors were just as important for creating the situation. Yes, there are other factors preceding these developments, but I strongly believe that we would have found a balance if it had not been for the external influences from the 1980s onwards.

Pakistan had been under American military sanctions from 1965, which were eventually lifted in 1982, I think. The Soviet Union was on our doorstep, merely 8 years after helping India in East Pakistan. That's Not exactly a situation you can walk away from if help is knocking on your door. Plus, of course, Zia was looking for legitimacy for his takeover. I think we need to give Pakistani society a break. We have made poor choices, but let's not pretend, that we had complete freedom in those matters. We did what was needed for our circumstances, but we have grown, and are much stronger, and able to bear external pressures. So, it is time for change and course correction, I think we are already on that road, slow and steady is always better than the hammer of thor, when it comes to societal change. We want to change our society, not break it.

Regarding India, I'll leave that for another discussion.
But regarding England, they are a perfect example of what slow change delivers, historically England has been a lot smaller than France, look up the population ratios. I did once but cannot remember right now. But, they have mostly kicked the french backside, baring one civil war, they escaped the European revolutions, because they choose the path of gradual change and stability when they were able to do so. And have exercised a role far above their weight, because of internal stability.

I do not know many people who have been hanged under the blasphemy laws in Pakistan, please remind me. But they are used for other purposes, that's the problem. You described around 200 hundred years of the legal existence of blasphemy laws in Great Britain, just because they only had one hanging does not mean, they were not effective in meeting the needs of the society. I do not know much about its history beyond the basics to form an understanding. But, I do know that laws in England are not passed for the sake of having a certain law. Like many countries, an environment builds in which it is recognized the need for certain laws, only then a major law is passed. They fulfilled a requirement for British society. It need not be judged by the number of hangings.

Similarly, having anti-blasphemy laws, is not necessarily the wrong approach, if that is the need of the hour. Their fair implementation is more important for sake of social harmony, combined with effective protection for the accused, and suitable punishments for those who lay false accusations, right now that does not exist.

Imagine if the judges of the Supreme Court were also members of the senate, there would be an uproar in Pakistan. Let us not forget, the famous Law Lords were members of the House of Lords, till very recently, effectively part f the legislature. The Supreme Court in UK was only established in 2009. Even now clergy have seats in the House of Lords, and there were nearly 100 hereditary peers, where you could pass on your seat to your son as a legal right, and so many other anomalies. these things are being phased out gradually, UK has been a mature developed country for nearly 100 years, but still, these things were accepted, the preferred course has been to bring in change only when societal pressure builds, and gradually change things, one by one.

If we wish for a peaceful society, there is no solution, other than gradual adaptive change. Otherwise, hammer of thor will be used in a different way with each passing generation. Because demands change, but the methods remain the same, once they are ingrained. You and I will not be here eventually, I hope we both wish for long-term peace, not just during our lifetimes. The only way to assure that is by not demanding the hammer, every time we wish to see change. By choosing the right methodologies, we set in habits that breed stability and peace.
 
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