Featured SH15 Artillery in Pakistan

[Zarvan]

What were the other sources of procurment test


What this guy says happened
He said oak buying tb 2 next few days announced

He btoke cancelation of t 12 deal happened

He said pak mavy selected turkish zargana protection for hangoor subs navy did

He ponits mistakesi n procurments

He said india buying Armata russia offered them

Serbian and Czech Republic and South African Guns were tested.

 

[ahtan_china]

i have no time to transalate the document.
中国的PCL-181式155毫米车载加榴炮是全球155毫米卡车炮中结构最为紧凑，体积外形最小、火力最为强悍的型号，该炮首次应用了可升降式油气悬架技术和中国独创的“蹲坐式”后座结构，被业内人士评价为“世界第一卡车炮”。

PCL-181型155毫米车载加榴炮首次将可升降式油气悬架技术应用大口径车载火炮系统中，火炮和车体在射击时可降低底盘高度，即降低了火线高度，也提高了射击稳定性。在越野行进时，可以提升底盘高度，提高了地形通过和越野能力。

PCL-181轮式加榴炮采用了我国南京理工大学独创的“蹲坐式”后座结构，在射击时能大幅降低底盘和火线的高度，直接把巨大的火炮后坐力传递给地面，因此明显提高了射击稳定性。

在以前，西方好几个型号的大口径卡车炮都有各种吹嘘，性能都吹上了天。当我国的PCL-181卡车炮服役以后，这些西方的卡车炮都不吹了。因为他们发现中国的155毫米车载加榴炮采用了独特的液压蹲式大架，降低了后坐力对车辆底盘的冲击。很显然，中国卡车炮的蹲式射击的设计更合理更先进，而且火线高度更低，装填更方便。

 

[lcloo]

i have no time to transalate the document.
中国的PCL-181式155毫米车载加榴炮是全球155毫米卡车炮中结构最为紧凑，体积外形最小、火力最为强悍的型号，该炮首次应用了可升降式油气悬架技术和中国独创的“蹲坐式”后座结构，被业内人士评价为“世界第一卡车炮”。

PCL-181型155毫米车载加榴炮首次将可升降式油气悬架技术应用大口径车载火炮系统中，火炮和车体在射击时可降低底盘高度，即降低了火线高度，也提高了射击稳定性。在越野行进时，可以提升底盘高度，提高了地形通过和越野能力。

PCL-181轮式加榴炮采用了我国南京理工大学独创的“蹲坐式”后座结构，在射击时能大幅降低底盘和火线的高度，直接把巨大的火炮后坐力传递给地面，因此明显提高了射击稳定性。

在以前，西方好几个型号的大口径卡车炮都有各种吹嘘，性能都吹上了天。当我国的PCL-181卡车炮服役以后，这些西方的卡车炮都不吹了。因为他们发现中国的155毫米车载加榴炮采用了独特的液压蹲式大架，降低了后坐力对车辆底盘的冲击。很显然，中国卡车炮的蹲式射击的设计更合理更先进，而且火线高度更低，装填更方便。
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You can always write a brief summary of the article content.

 

[Beast]

i have no time to transalate the document.
中国的PCL-181式155毫米车载加榴炮是全球155毫米卡车炮中结构最为紧凑，体积外形最小、火力最为强悍的型号，该炮首次应用了可升降式油气悬架技术和中国独创的“蹲坐式”后座结构，被业内人士评价为“世界第一卡车炮”。

PCL-181型155毫米车载加榴炮首次将可升降式油气悬架技术应用大口径车载火炮系统中，火炮和车体在射击时可降低底盘高度，即降低了火线高度，也提高了射击稳定性。在越野行进时，可以提升底盘高度，提高了地形通过和越野能力。

PCL-181轮式加榴炮采用了我国南京理工大学独创的“蹲坐式”后座结构，在射击时能大幅降低底盘和火线的高度，直接把巨大的火炮后坐力传递给地面，因此明显提高了射击稳定性。

在以前，西方好几个型号的大口径卡车炮都有各种吹嘘，性能都吹上了天。当我国的PCL-181卡车炮服役以后，这些西方的卡车炮都不吹了。因为他们发现中国的155毫米车载加榴炮采用了独特的液压蹲式大架，降低了后坐力对车辆底盘的冲击。很显然，中国卡车炮的蹲式射击的设计更合理更先进，而且火线高度更低，装填更方便。
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View attachment 813763

Precisely the point I want to convey. There is no doubt SH-15 is one of the top SP gun in the world. But some people with shallow technical bg purely look at SPG in terms of protections and full auto loading to come to conclusion western design SPG is better.

Not only SH-15 advance hydraulic suspension is sophisticated, it's targeting and semi auto loading are very efficient and advance. For such compact size of SH-15 to achieve level is an engineering of marvel. @iLION12345_1

 

[iLION12345_1]

Precisely the point I want to convey. There is no doubt SH-15 is one of the top SP gun in the world. But some people with shallow technical bg purely look at SPG in terms of protections and full auto loading to come to conclusion western design SPG is better.

Not only SH-15 advance hydraulic suspension is sophisticated, it's targeting and semi auto loading are very efficient and advance. For such compact size of SH-15 to achieve level is an engineering of marvel. @iLION12345_1

Stop tagging me in every post you make because I hurt your ego. I’ve explained to you enough times why you’re wrong. I don’t need to see more of your incompetence and bias. I’ll report you the next time you do it.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Pakistan Army to procure around 300 SH-15 Howitzer artillery beasts from China and deploy them along the Line of Control and international border with India. There is no link to this news at the moment but has been disclosed by a very reliable source.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1208341392906428416

Indians will feel the heat of these modified and highly capable beasts on the LOC.

On the LOC?

Only villagers will be affected. So much for the moral support for the ordinary man that is prominent in professions of support for Kashmir and the Kashmiri.

 

[Joe Shearer]

better yet Faridkot , one of the major artillery garrisons and the only one one with Self Propelled Artillery near the Pakistani Border is located <40km from border line , that allows SH-15 to engage the garrisson from well within Pakistani territory. View attachment 812184

Just to point out that it is the same distance in both directions.

Bhai sahib you are doing a great disservice to history, an honest interpretation is important. Taking few irrelevant examples to conjure a non existent reality does not make it true. Any factual history has to be based on ground realities, on a set of parameters for it to exist and be recognised. That is not the case regarding this topic, a historical Indian nation, it cannot be based on the naming of spices.

Your argument is extremely weak, allow me to highlight why. Indian fantasies are one thing, but what's worrying is that Pakistanis lot fail to assess history with due merit, that's sad, and without realising they hurt themselves.

You cannot base a historical nationhood, based of few odd facts, the Muslims were known as Saracens to the European Christians, are we Saracens or Muslim?, the Christians of Europe were known as Franks, Are they Franks or do they have their own identity? Terms used by others do not not mean anything because you refer to a grouping according to your own understanding at the time. First and foremost, Identity is self created, not created by others, that's an essential element.

To claim a historical nationhood there had to be home grown "NATION" covering the claimed territory, that has never happen in 5000 years of Indian/South Asian history, baring few decades. By taking the name "India", history has been muddled, the difference between a regional historical has been confused with a history of a nation.

The Europeans have a 1000 years of Roman rule, under which they had a unified government and administrative structures, unified currency and a unified language, that language still influences modern day European languages, but the Europeans are not silly enough to claim a historical nationhood.

The Arab world actually had everything that makes a nation, unified religion, language that survives to this day, culture, unified rule and so on. They followed the process of evolution where the Berbers identity became secondary to Arabic identity, but they do not cry about a lost and a fantasy filled imagined Arab Mata, because they don't behave like children and accept modern realities.

In India even without a historical basis, they still constantly cry about an imagined bharat mata that never was, and people like you seem to accept this blind fantasy, that's truly sad.

Identity is not a pre-formed package, it is formed over time with set of shared values, of which language is paramount, amount other factors. A Bengali or a Punjabi or Tamil or Marathi did not wake up one day and decide we are going to be Bengali or Tamil, they have shared set of experiences that gave them their singularly different food, culture, festivals, and language, an distinct identity, that happened because each of those are nations, and the neighbouring people followed their own path and created their own identity, that is what makes people different, distinct nations.

In China you actually have a history of Sinicisation, where over millennia, they made tremendous effort to create a Chinese identity and today more then 90% of Chinese identity as Han Chinese. That process never happened in South Asian/India, which was always a region, never a country. There was never a demand for s singular national identity because it did not exist in the minds of the people. The Hindu identity is a modern reality, historycally people followed a Santana dharma, following different gods in different area, the formulation of that identity as Hindus is very much a modern concept.

There a historically region of India, please do not confuse that with nationhood, there is a vast difference. You do yourself injustice by blindly accepting loose facts to create a vast reality of nationhood that never existed, that is historically incorrect , and intellectually unfair.



The sad thing is that many unaware among Pakistanis have accept these fantasies without fair judgement.

This is the wrong place, otherwise there is a lot to be said about your argument, showing why it is a limited and blinkered look at the identity of 'India' (note the citation marks, please, nothing is being pre-judged, if that is a word).

Some other time, some other place, good Sir.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Indian media / forums et al are reacting far more to the sale of SH-15 than anything I've read even on the J10C buy. Any idea why? Arty seems to hurt 'em more? =)

Probably because thanks to maladministration bordering on the criminal, military procurement in our country was horribly neglected for a significant period of time. The reasons lay in the scandal over the Bofors gun procurement. The gun was excellent, but the scandal overwhelmed everybody's thinking, and led to paralysis in procurement. Paralysis in buying artillery, very much; but also in buying APCs and IFVs, in buying all the balancing equipment needed to convert Infantry Divisions to Mechanised Divisions, to keep up with the armoured formations that were being expanded steadily, due to pre-arranged purchases that continued. Paralysis in replacing a defective copy of an assault rifle that has given our troops trouble right through and continues to trouble us even today. Paralysis in buying aircraft, the most hurtful lapse. Paralysis in buying and acquiring the right to build submarines. It was right across the board.

The second factor is one that is not right to emphasise on a forum not restricted to Indians.

The third is the major miscalculation made by planners in not significantly raising the technical quality of formations facing the Pakistan Army (and Pakistan Air Force, although the Indian Air Force faces other problems as well), and allowing time and effort to address the permanent difficulty that we will face from China and its generation of wolf warriors (that is not intended as a compliment).

This is why there is such sensitivity in Indian media. Some of that sensitivity is due to well-reasoned and well-understood analysis of the defence question; some of it is sensational emoting that is not worth the paper it is written on.

What is worrying is that this 'sensitivity', and Pakistan's irresponsibility, combines to create a mindset that is prepared to spend on defence, and continue to neglect education, health-care and communications, our critical areas for development.

 

[hydrabadi_arab]

What is worrying is that this 'sensitivity', and Pakistan's irresponsibility, combines to create a mindset that is prepared to spend on defence, and continue to neglect education, health-care and communications, our critical areas for development.

Pakistan defence spending is now like 2.1% of GDP as of FY 2021-22. Bare minimum to say the least. Used to be lot more.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Pakistan defence spending is now like 2.1% of GDP as of FY 2021-22. Bare minimum to say the least. Used to be lot more.

View attachment 818473

You have a point.

I know that there is a defensive mind-set among Pakistani military planners, and I know that the clumsy, out of sync noises emerging from the present political-military combination at the centre does not give much comfort to these planners, indeed, to anyone.

It is slowly becoming clear that we need a no-war pact. At the moment, it sounds ridiculous, and the strategists in Pakistan, of whom there are so, so many, will immediately throw themselves on the floor for their greater comfort in rolling around laughing, wondering if Pakistan is seriously expected to focus on her own internal problems, and on mending fences with her neighbours to west and east, when it is so much easier to be lazy and continue to be the catspaw of somebody else.

We can only hope. It is impossible as long as we have the present bunch of chuckle-wits ruling Delhi. It may be that we have shifted permanently to a groove so far to the right that people from my generation could never have imagined it to be possible.

Umeed pe duniya qayam hai.

 

[Inception-06]

Precisely the point I want to convey. There is no doubt SH-15 is one of the top SP gun in the world. But some people with shallow technical bg purely look at SPG in terms of protections and full auto loading to come to conclusion western design SPG is better.

Not only SH-15 advance hydraulic suspension is sophisticated, it's targeting and semi auto loading are very efficient and advance. For such compact size of SH-15 to achieve level is an engineering of marvel. @iLION12345_1

Ground clearance for this vehicles looks very critically, may be it’s only the pictures which gives a wrong impression, is it useable in marshy and cross country terrains ?

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Probably because thanks to maladministration bordering on the criminal, military procurement in our country was horribly neglected for a significant period of time. The reasons lay in the scandal over the Bofors gun procurement. The gun was excellent, but the scandal overwhelmed everybody's thinking, and led to paralysis in procurement. Paralysis in buying artillery, very much; but also in buying APCs and IFVs, in buying all the balancing equipment needed to convert Infantry Divisions to Mechanised Divisions, to keep up with the armoured formations that were being expanded steadily, due to pre-arranged purchases that continued. Paralysis in replacing a defective copy of an assault rifle that has given our troops trouble right through and continues to trouble us even today. Paralysis in buying aircraft, the most hurtful lapse. Paralysis in buying and acquiring the right to build submarines. It was right across the board.

The second factor is one that is not right to emphasise on a forum not restricted to Indians.

The third is the major miscalculation made by planners in not significantly raising the technical quality of formations facing the Pakistan Army (and Pakistan Air Force, although the Indian Air Force faces other problems as well), and allowing time and effort to address the permanent difficulty that we will face from China and its generation of wolf warriors (that is not intended as a compliment).

This is why there is such sensitivity in Indian media. Some of that sensitivity is due to well-reasoned and well-understood analysis of the defence question; some of it is sensational emoting that is not worth the paper it is written on.

What is worrying is that this 'sensitivity', and Pakistan's irresponsibility, combines to create a mindset that is prepared to spend on defence, and continue to neglect education, health-care and communications, our critical areas for development.

Pakistan's procurement is also more opaque, especially deals with China. This creates a 2-prong issue where (1) it's hard to anticipate what Pakistan will acquire in the near term and (2) it's near-impossible to scuttle the deal if it's from China.

Pakistan defence spending is now like 2.1% of GDP as of FY 2021-22. Bare minimum to say the least. Used to be lot more.

View attachment 818473

That's true, but I don't think we reduced defence spending (vs. GDP) because of growing healthcare or education costs. Rather, I think the bigger blocker has been our debt repayments, which have ballooned over the past 10 years. IMHO, if not for debt repayments, our real defence budget would likely be in the $13-17 bn a year range. That said, we are pretty much in a debt-snare because of corruption plus a lack of investment in education, skill development, etc to elevate our economic output. However, if all things were held equal, I believe our defence budget would be much higher if not for debt repayments.

 

[iLION12345_1]

Ground clearance for this vehicles looks very critically, may be it’s only the pictures which gives a wrong impression, is it useable in marshy and cross country terrains ?

The clearance should be enough for most usage cases, it’s definitely not as good as its competitors, but with its adjustable/adaptive suspension and engineering’s leading the way it’ll do just fine, keep in mind artillery doesn’t go to the frontlines, it stays back where it’s safe and there’s stable terrain to fire from.

 

[lcloo]

Ground clearance for this vehicles looks very critically, may be it’s only the pictures which gives a wrong impression, is it useable in marshy and cross country terrains ?

The ground clearance is adjustable. When it is on firing mode, the chasis is lowered down as much as possible so that shocks from gun recoil will be transmitted to the ground.

While on moving mode, the chasis is elevated, and the cross country performance is as good as any top cross-country motor vehicles. SH15 has been tested in Gobi desert and off road rocky terrain on Tibet Highlands.

 

[maverick1977]

Pakistan defence spending is now like 2.1% of GDP as of FY 2021-22. Bare minimum to say the least. Used to be lot more.

View attachment 818473

Is it operational cost to run the army or includes capital funds for purchases?