Secularists should 'mend ways or leave country', says PTI lawmaker

[M. Sarmad]

Idiot, you have been proven wrong. Google translation 'libertine meaning' (type that) is what I posted and dictionary.com has the same! That's two references for you!

O meray Bhai "Fajir" ka matlab tak pata nahi , chalay laugon ko deen sikhanay

60 different translations are not enough for you to understand what "Al-Fujjar(a)" means ?? or in what context/meaning the word "libertine" has been used here by A J Arberry ??


You attributed a lie to Allah that he has declared freethinkers as unbelievers

And now your tiny ego is not allowing you to admit that you had made a mistake?

Kidhar gai ab sari Musalmani jo jharr rahay ho yahan ??

 

[Hell hound]

@The Sandman @Zibago @Fallen King @Azlan Haider @XenoEnsi-14 from what i have gathered after reading 16 pages is that people here just hating on a the liberal and secular tag here just for the sake of hating it and are putting no effort in understanding the idea behind it.they think of liberalism as some kind of static western concept which is unmalleable hence can only be applied the way it is applied in western countries.what they fail to understand is that it is a dynamic in nature and all it do is provide you with some building blocks in the form of basic concepts and moralities.after that your are free to build upon it keeping your culture and surrounding environment in mind.

 

[Finer]

I gave you an example in the form of a question. Answer that!

If you think that Allah doesn't exist and reflect on life, you are a freethinker! It is as simple as that. Still difficult for you?

Another example:

'Do not marry idolatresses, until they believe', repeatedly again in the very next ayat. Upon reflection,
1. what conclusion would you come to taking these commands into consideration; and
2. what conclusion would you come to without taking that command into consideration?

How is that example related to the free-thinkers? Free-thinkers falls on Intellectual field. Clearly, you don't understand the meaning of free-thinkers. Maybe it wouldn't hurt if you broadens your so-called intellectual brain to accommodate more challenging information.

 

[The Sandman]

@Azlan Haider @Fallen King it's always with these guys when they run out of arguments they will start insulting you because they lose their patience when proven wrong and than they say it's us who're getting away from Islam.

@The Sandman @Zibago @Fallen King @Azlan Haider @XenoEnsi-14 from what i have gathered after reading 16 pages is that people here just hating on a the liberal and secular tag here without doing any effort on understanding the idea behind it.they think of liberalism as some kind of static western concept which is unmalleable hence can only be applied the way it is applied in western countries.what they fail to understand is that it is a dynamic in nature and all it do is provide you with some building blocks in the form of basic concepts and moralities.after that your are free to build upon it keeping your culture and surrounding environment in mind.

We all have wasted a lot of time on this thread i guess and like always it all went down the drain sigh mods will probably close it now because again it has been descended to abuses and personal attack like every thread on these types of topic and this happens always because of people who think they're more Muslims than others.
@waz @Jungibaaz

 

[Verve]

O meray Bhai "Fajir" ka matlab tak pata nahi , chalay laugon ko deen sikhanay

60 different translations are not enough for you to understand what "Al-Fujjar(a)" means ?? or in what context/meaning the word "libertine" has been used here by A J Arberry ??


You attributed lie to Allah that he has declared freethinkers as unbelievers

And now your tiny ego is not allowing you to admit that you made a mistake?

Kidhar gai ab sari Musalmani jo jharr rahay ho yahan ??

hahaha ... It is you who is bent on your version of Libertine translation.

Why don't you type 'libertine in Quran' in google search and you will find many references for it? Broken fingers? or you like being spoon fed?

This is not a pissing competition. We are sharing our opinions and I have repeatedly directed you to my sources but you are in some sort of denial mode.

 

[Awan68]

Gay marriage and feminists? Islam that crushed barbaric conservative dominated culture and gave new face for women 1400 years ago. Are you talking about same Islam that gave new platform for women 1400 years ago?

Gay marriage? It is not free-thinkers. It is gay people fighting for their rights. Both feminism and gay marriage have nothing to do with free-thinkers. That is human rights issues. Quite frankly, your understanding on free-thinkers is limited which explains your habitual of self-contradicting yourself.

Technology, medical cure, mathematics would be example of free-thinkers that pursue the knowledge beyond Islam.

Oh yar i really dont have the stomach now to explain the differences between feminism and rights of women in islam to an obvious sucker of intellect and bieng gay is a mental desease to be researched upon and cured, they are not normal people who can fight for thier rights, this is exactly what i was saying about freethought, quran utterly prohibits gay practices yet ur freethought has led u to believe that they have the right to act upon thier urges???that its thier human right?? U are contradicting ur own statements in a single answer, i wont reply to u after this, its hopeless..

 

[Verve]

How is that example related to the free-thinkers? Free-thinkers falls on Intellectual field. Clearly, you don't understand the meaning of free-thinkers. Maybe it wouldn't hurt if you broadens your so-called intellectual brain to accommodate more challenging information.

Issue is that you are too darn bigoted to even participate. Locked mind?

I asked you to reflect and answer. You won't even do that. Reflect and answer. How can you even understand my point if you won't even attempt to do as requested? Instead you are asking me to explain without your nill participation. You are not even ready to think so much!???

 

[Finer]

Oh yar i really dont have the stomach now to explain the differences between feminism and rights of women in islam to an obvious sucker of intellect and bieng gay is a mental desease to be researched upon and cured, they are not normal people who can fight for thier rights, this is exactly what i was saying about freethought, quran utterly prohibits gay practices yet ur freethought has led u to believe that they have the right to act upon thier urges???that its thier human right?? U are contradicting ur own statements in a single answer, i wont reply to u after this, its hopeless..

Are you comparing human rights issues with free-thinkers that falls on the category of Intellectual-field?

 

[Verve]

Oh yar i really dont have the stomach now to explain the differences between feminism and rights of women in islam to an obvious sucker of intellect and bieng gay is a mental desease to be researched upon and cured, they are not normal people who can fight for thier rights, this is exactly what i was saying about freethought, quran utterly prohibits gay practices yet ur freethought has led u to believe that they have the right to act upon thier urges???that its thier human right?? U are contradicting ur own statements in a single answer, i wont reply to u after this, its hopeless..

Story of Lot, probably went over his head and not through his brain it seems!

 

[Finer]

We are wasting time over the debate that is built on mistranslation to begin with.

Let's get some clarity on the meaning of Fujjar.

I only came across with the example Al-Fajr so i cannot find any example on Fujjar. What is the definition of Fujjar should be first step before we find ourselves in never-ending debate?

What does Fujjar mean? Evil-Doers or Free-Thinkers? Let's focus on this first.

 

[Verve]

We are wasting time over the debate that is built on mistranslation to begin with.

Let's get some clarity on the meaning of Al-Fujjar.

I only came across with the example Al-Fajr so i cannot find any example on Al-Fujjar. What is the definition of Al-Fujjar should be first step before we find ourselves in never-ending debate?

What does Al-Fujjar mean? Evil-Doers or Free-Thinkers? Let's focus on this first.

now you've started a different thing ... keep changing focus and we will not get anywhere.

Not had time to reflect on two questions I asked? Or can't be bothered to THINK!?

 

[MultaniGuy]

For everyone who endorses multiculturalism, equality, progression, pro-life and believe in the liberal democracy of Canada. And your view is against the basic fundamental of Canada. Now you see the hypocrisy while deciding the fate for liberal people. You don't belong in progressive Canada if you are anti-progressive.

Sorry thatis where you are wrong. Canada claims to be a country for everyone. Lol hypocrite secularists should be gotten rid off in Pakistan

 

[Finer]

Since Verve failed to provide the whole Surah and everything, the word Fujjar came from the Surah Al-Muṭafifīn meaning Those Who Deal in Fraud.

From the translation of the words;



Sahih International: No! Indeed, the record of the wicked is in sijjeen.

Pickthall: Nay, but the record of the vile is in Sijjin -

Yusuf Ali: Nay! Surely the record of the wicked is (preserved) in Sijjin.

Shakir: Nay! most surely the record of the wicked is in the Sijjin.

Muhammad Sarwar: Woe to them! Let them know that the records of the sinner's deeds are in Sijin.

Mohsin Khan: Nay! Truly, the Record (writing of the deeds) of the Fujjar (disbelievers, sinners, evil-doers and wicked) is (preserved) in Sijjin.

Arberry: No indeed; the Book of the libertines is in Sijjin;

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Clearly that is the sign of disbelievers, sinners, evil-doers and wicked which has nothing to do with free-thinkers at all. I am gonna post the whole Surah to provide more clarify for the better understanding.

 

[Verve]

@Azlan Haider

There you go ...... now go through and digest (or dissect)!

Verse (80:42) - English Translation - The Quranic Arabic Corpus ...
corpus.quran.com/translation.jsp?chapter=80&verse=42
Welcome to the Quranic Arabic Corpus, an annotated linguistic resource for the Holy Quran. .... Arberry: those -- they are the unbelievers, the libertines.
Verse (71:27) - English Translation - The Quranic Arabic Corpus ...
corpus.quran.com/translation.jsp?chapter=71&verse=27
Welcome to the Quranic Arabic Corpus, an annotated linguistic resource for the .... will lead Thy servants astray, and will beget none but unbelieving libertines.
Verse (83:7) - English Translation - The Quranic Arabic Corpus ...
corpus.quran.com/translation.jsp?chapter=83&verse=7
Welcome to the Quranic Arabic Corpus, an annotated linguistic resource for the Holy Quran. .... Arberry: No indeed; the Book of the libertines is in Sijjin;.
Verse (82:14) - English Translation - The Quranic Arabic Corpus ...
corpus.quran.com/translation.jsp?chapter=82&verse=14
Welcome to the Quranic Arabic Corpus, an annotated linguistic resource for the Holy Quran. This page .... Arberry: and the libertines shall be in a fiery furnace.
The Message Of Quran And Hadith | The Message Of The Libertines ...
https://www.facebook.com/directory/pages/T-5870530-5870538
Browse Pages. Bands, Businesses, Restaurants, Brands and Celebrities can create Pages in order to connect with their fans and customers on Facebook.
Why Pete Doherty has jumped to the front of the line for BPD celebs ...
www.anythingtostopthepain.com/why-pete-doherty-has-jumped-to-the-front-of-the-li...
28 Apr 2008 - The former Libertines singer has continually been in the headlines over ... One of Doherty's friends said: “He's been reading the Quran since he ...
Sufism: A Global History - Page 28 - Google Books Result
https://books.google.co.uk/books?isbn=1405157615
Nile Green - 2012 - ‎Religion
Like the Quran, the Hadith was not an “agent” or necessarily even a “source” of ... Far from being rule-breaking libertines or spirit-filled radicals, we should ...
Mujùn: Libertinism in Medieval Muslim Society and Literature
https://books.google.co.uk/books?isbn=0906094941
Zoltan Szombathy - 2013 - ‎Religion
The similarities with libertines are clear. (I have no evidence that libertines would typically have been ostracised by their kin – although in some ... [Quran 45:24].

 

[Finer]

Sorry thatis where you are wrong. Canada claims to be a country for everyone. Lol hypocrite secularists should be gotten rid off in Pakistan

Not really. In fact, Canada has deported many people who defy the basics fundamental of Canada. Don't be under the impression since you are safe despite your anti-liberal outlooks that contradicts the liberal Canada.