Second Strike on board Conventional Submarines: The Agosta 90B

[MZUBAIR]

This is what Navy Chief said in 2008, up till now there is no verification.. that Pakistan has ever tested or even has submarine launched nuclear capable missile(either ballistic or cruise).

Now there are two ways of launching missile from a VLS or from torpedo tubes.

For launching a VLS missile...major modification to sub would be required ..the submarine would to cut open and additional hull section(housing the VLS tubes) will have to welded in .

For torpedo launch again submarine modification would required ableit a comparatively a minor one ie Bigger torpedo tubes(650mm) would have to be bored in the submarine hull.

Though have torpedo tube launch nukes do present additional hazard of crew being in direct contact of the nukes.

But biggest question still persists does Pakistan even have a submarine launched nuclear capable cruise missile?

Yes.........Agosta can fire Cruise missiles
Agosta 90B and Agosta 70 both can fire Babur Cruise Missiles.
Not only that Babur can also be fired through missile boats like Jallat Class.

The tests were done in late mid 2009. Not announced coz of the political sitituation but few Pakistani Newz Papers claimed it.
Besdies number of international media and resources claimed in late 2008 and early 2009 that the Sea versions of Babur Cruise misssiles were in development.

Source

 

[acetophenol]

Just as thrilling to see world best cricketer holding a fake cup

What?pls elaborate

 

[Penguin]

Yes.........Agosta can fire Cruise missiles
Agosta 90B and Agosta 70 both can fire Babur Cruise Missiles.
Not only that Babur can also be fired through missile boats like Jallat Class.

The tests were done in late mid 2009. Not announced coz of the political sitituation but few Pakistani Newz Papers claimed it.
Besdies number of international media and resources claimed in late 2008 and early 2009 that the Sea versions of Babur Cruise misssiles were in development.

Source

Babur is 6.25 m long (7 m with booster for surface launch), diameter 52cm and weighs about 1500kg. By comparison, the C208 on the 200tn Jalalat class missile boat and on the F22P frigates is 715 kg, 6.392 m long with a diameter of 36 cm. So, while Babur might be fit on navy surface platforms in terms of length, weight-wise only half the number of missiles could be carried (i.e. 2 on Jalala and 4 on F22P) and this would leave the ships without anti-ship capability. Since neither vessel type has very good air-selfdefence capability, I don't think this is a serious option, especially when compared to possible SSK basing (which is much, much less vulnerable). The development for SSK basing is RUMORED, not yet actual.

If the diameter of Babur is indeed 52cm, then the existing torpedo tubes of Agosta's (and e.g. Yuan, or Type 212/4) is sufficuent for SSK launch of Babur and not 650 tubes would be necessary. Even if they were necessary, that would not be an unsurmountable problem: see Israels German made Dolphin SSKs with a mix of regular and large diamete tubes for heavyweight torpedoes.

 

[ares]

Yes.........Agosta can fire Cruise missiles
Agosta 90B and Agosta 70 both can fire Babur Cruise Missiles.
Not only that Babur can also be fired through missile boats like Jallat Class.

The tests were done in late mid 2009. Not announced coz of the political sitituation but few Pakistani Newz Papers claimed it.
Besdies number of international media and resources claimed in late 2008 and early 2009 that the Sea versions of Babur Cruise misssiles were in development.

Source

Again as per your source these are but rumors no concrete/reliable information is available on the tests either.

 

[MZUBAIR]

Again as per your source these are but rumors no concrete/reliable information is available on the tests either.

I told u, Pakistan dont officially announce on media....and its been happening from last 5 years due to political reasons.
But Pakistan hav capability.
There was no concrete information of Pakistan Nuclear Capabilites b4 28th May 1998.
Similarly there was no concrete information of Pak Stealth Cruise missile b4 2008.

I hope u got answer.

 

[MZUBAIR]

Again as per your source these are but rumors no concrete/reliable information is available on the tests either.

A Source for u

The Babur missile is the first cruise missile fielded by Pakistan. It is capable of carrying either conventional or nuclear warheads and has a reported range of 700 km (435 miles). It is reported that it can hit its target with "pinpoint accuracy" and can be fired from warships, submarines and fighter jets. It is designed to avoid radar detection and penetrate undetected through a defensive system. The cruise missile is a terrain hugging missile and it has an up-to-date navigation and guidance system, and a high degree of maneuverability. Serial production of Babur started in October 2005.

On August 12th, 2005, Pakistan publicly announced that it had successfully test fired a nuclear-capable Babur cruise missile. The missile was launched from a land based transporter erector launcher (TEL). With this test, Pakistan became one of twelve countries that possess cruise missile technology. Babur is part of Pakistan's Hatf missile series. The unannounced initial launch on 11 August 2005 caught much of the international community by surprise due to the technically advanced nature of the missile, as well as, according to some un-reliable sources, the fact that Pakistan did not notify India of its test-firing in accordance with the existing notification agreement, as it is limited to ballistic missile testing only.



On July 26, 2007 Pakistan reportedly tested an upgraded babur cruise missile launched from the topedo tubes of an Agosta 90-b submarine. Various reports also claimed that it has also been upgraded to carry on future PAF fighters such as the F-16 and JF-17. With this Pakistan now has an advanced well networked range of second strike capability that it can use in wartime. It has now been confirmed that the second version of the Babur cruise missile has the capability of being fired from submarines, in this case Pakistan's Agosta-90B, or fighter aircraft, such as Pakistan's JF-17, F-16, or A-5 Fantan.

On March 22nd, 2007, Pakistan test-fired the second version of the nuclear-capable Babur/Hatf VII nuclear-capable cruise missile with the capability to avoid radar detection and an extended range of 700km.On December, 11, 2007 another test of Babut cruise missile has been carried out.

In the future, a more advanced version of the Babur is planned, that will likely have more range, and will weigh considerably less than the current 1,400 kg model. Other likely upgrades might include being equipped to the J-10 jet fighter or the German U-212/U-214 submarines.

 

[ares]

I told u, Pakistan dont officially announce on media....and its been happening from last 5 years due to political reasons.
But Pakistan hav capability.
There was no concrete information of Pakistan Nuclear Capabilites b4 28th May 1998.
Similarly there was no concrere information of Pak Stealth Cruise missile be 2008.

I hope u got answer.

If Pakistan does not offically announce these tests next logical question would be ..How do you know about them?..and that they happened?
Unless you are one of the navy officials..who actually witnessed this test there is noway you make such claims...based on hearsay.

---------- Post added at 01:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:01 PM ----------

A Source for u

Please could you provide the link.

 

[MZUBAIR]

If Pakistan does not offically announce these tests next logical question would be ..How do you know about them?..and that they happened?
Unless you are one of the navy officials..who actually witnessed this test there is noway you make such claims...based on hearsay.

---------- Post added at 01:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:01 PM ----------



Please could you provide the link.

I know coz of the local newz papers....where coresponding companies also describe expected time.

Link for u
http://www.pakistanmilitary.110mb.com/babarcmissile.htm

I know u cant believe. coz newz r not for u.

 

[ares]

I know coz of the local newz papers....where coresponding companies also describe expected time.

Link for u
http://www.pakistanmilitary.110mb.com/babarcmissile.htm

I know u cant believe

Yes you are right.. I am a skeptic..I will only believe when concrete/reliable info is available and not a blog.

Besides media reports from Jul 26 2007 suggests that it was routine test.


Pakistan successfully tests Babar (Hatf-VII) missile

ISLAMABAD (updated on: July 26, 2007, 11:38 PST): Pakistan on Thursday successfully test fired its nuclear-capable radar-dodging cruise missile, the military said.

The indigenously developed Babar (Hatf-VII) missile has a range of 700 kilometres (437 miles) and "near stealth" properties, it said in a statement.

The missile was last tested in March and first fired in 2005, since when its range has been increased from 500 kilometres.

"The missile test is part of a continuous process of validating the design parameters set for this weapon system," the statement said.

It said President Pervez Musharraf and Prime Minister Shaukat Aziz congratulated the scientists and engineers "on this very important success."

"The Babar, which has near stealth capabilities, is a low flying, terrain hugging missile with high maneuverability, pinpoint accuracy and radar avoidance features," the statement said.

"The test will consolidate Pakistan's strategic capability and strengthen national security."

 

[Contrarian]

Why exactly wouldn't an SSK be effective? Good ones are quieter than an SSN....

The entire purpose of an sea based second strike is survivability of the platform. That is the reason why atleast 1 SSBN's is supposed to be out in the sea at all times to escape a nuclear attack. So it boils down to endurance and size of the sub. SSN like Agosta, while fitted with MESMA AIP, would not be able to match the endurance of an SSBN, take long patrols far in the sea. And consequently will not be able to provide the kind of detterence that an SSBN provides.

That being said, for a country like Pakistan that cannot make an SSBN, it is a relatively effective substitute (with lesser capabilities) and definitely an important development that Naval Planners in India will have to look into.

 

[khanasifm]

Pn has an element part of strategic command so something exists but it’s will remain a secret bottom line of Israeli conventional subs wiTh aip or not can provide a capability so can others platforms , in subcontinent contexts do not need to mimic usn, if greater than 533 mm or 21 inch tubes are need can be added but for baber size 533 is fine


Babur cruise missile; Hatf VII
Mass 1,500 kg
Length 6.2 m
Diameter 0.52 m or 520 mm
Warhead 450 – 500 kg Conventional or nuclear

 

[Defense Reader]

It is too soon to reply he asked about just 9 and half years ago

 

[TsAr]

It is too soon to reply he asked about just 9 and half years ago

better late then never

 

[Defense Reader]

better late then never

Sir g fir v koi na koi tu expiry date hoti hai