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SCS Standoff Continues

If you’re a Chinese living in the US I understand how you feel but sorry to burst your bubble . Obviously you know nothing ‘bout history, FYI we fought many wars with the US (World Wars/Korean/Vietnam/Gulf War even in War on Terror. The Philippines is US Asia’s oldest allies and our country is vital strategic point for the US. Uncle Sam can't afford to lose us since it would start a domino effect that leads to total American defeat. Philippines’ defense is US's responsibility (as well as ours as its citizens). The real trouble maker here is not the Philippines but China, they think they own everything since ancient times and with this kind of barbaric attitude they can actually cause WW3. I hope China will soon choke on its own greed..

You have been at most an opportunistic ally. When the going gets tough your country gets going - to home. You guys ran with your tails between your leg when one of your citizen got kidnapped in Iraq. You have only sent token representation when my country is engaged in warfare so you can bleed us some. Your defence is not our responsibilty. It is yours. No one will come to your aid if shooting starts in the disputed sea. If the Chinese gets greedy and take your capital then we'll go in. But as far as those submerged rocks are concerned, you are all alone. Stop trying to drag us into your spat with the Chinese. Let me ask you, what steps have your country done for its defence. Let me guess, not much because you thought since we have a treaty we will automatically jump to save you. Nope. We will save you only if they turn you into a punching bag. But do us a favor, try to save yourselves for once, or at least make a semblance of trying.

So it appears your ownership claim on those rocks is pretty shaky. Here is an article from your newspaper:

Psst… US isn’t with Unclos
By: Rigoberto Tiglao
Philippine Daily Inquirer
1:03 am | Thursday, May 10th, 2012

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It’s been awkward—even comical—for the Aquino administration to be begging the United States for arms to defend our Scarborough Shoal claim, which it declared is based on the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (Unclos): the Americans aren’t with the convention.

The US—together with Israel and Turkey—is among 34 nations that have not ratified Unclos; they therefore officially do not recognize it. State Secretary Hillary Clinton in 2009 said the US Senate would ratify it soon. Three years later, it hasn’t even scheduled a vote on it.

The US’ rejection of Unclos—ratified by 162 nations including China and Russia—in fact unmasks American foreign policy’s basic guideline: “Might is right.” The US is the sole military global superpower now, its navy dwarfing that of Russia and China combined. Why would the US allow these 162 Unclos military weaklings tell what its all-powerful navy can and cannot do, where it can or cannot go?

Two Unclos provisions illustrate this point. Article 20: “In the territorial sea, submarines and other underwater vehicles are required to navigate on the surface and to show their flag.” Would American nuclear submarines, which routinely, secretly traverse Chinese and Russian waters want that? Article 88: “The high seas shall be reserved for peaceful purposes.” But international waters make up the base of US warships, from which it projects its military power globally.

President Aquino and his officials have been banging their fists on the table complaining to the world that China is refusing to have the dispute settled by the International Tribunal for Unclos.

They’re in for a surprise: The Philippines isn’t also with Unclos—when it comes to sovereignty disputes like that on Scarborough.

The Marcos government ratified Unclos in 1984. But it did not ratify the treaty in full, declaring that it doesn’t recognize Unclos on certain issues. Guess which?

On issues of sovereignty. Our country formally filed an eight-paragraph document when it ratified Unclos, which declared that nothing in the treaty would apply to its territorial claims. Its Paragraph 4 reads: “Such signing shall not in any manner impair or prejudice the sovereignty of the Philippines over any territory over which it exercises sovereign authority, such as the Kalayaan Islands, and the waters appurtenant thereto.”

In other words, we’ve declared that we do not recognize Unclos when it comes to our territorial disputes, such as that on Scarborough. The only body that can revise that restriction is the Philippine Senate.

And what were China’s qualifications when it ratified Unclos in 1996?

On issues of sovereignty. China in its own declaration said that it “reaffirms its sovereignty over all its archipelagos and islands as listed in article 2 of the Law of the People’s Republic of China on the territorial sea and the contiguous zone, which was promulgated on 25 February 1992.” That law declared as part of China what it called the Zhongsha Islands, which included Huangyan (Panatag to us).

In other words, both the Philippines and China—in fact most of the countries which ratified Unclos—don’t recognize the treaty when it comes to determining territorial disputes.

Didn’t they bother check what Unclos tribunal does? Of the 19 cases brought to it since 1997, nearly all were about maritime disputes, i.e., commercial vessels in some tiff with a foreign government. The only case that remotely dealt with sovereignty was about Burma’s (Myanmar) and Bangladesh’s maritime boundaries at the Bay of Bengal between the two countries.

First, Mr. Aquino makes the colossal blunder of sending a warship against Chinese fishermen, thereby militarizing the dispute, even as the vessel embarrassingly turned tail after a few days as it ran out of supplies. Then he insists that the dispute be decided by a court which, however, can’t have jurisdiction over it. This President is making us the laughing stock of the world.

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China-Philippines standoff: Will the US military get involved?




By Benjamin Carlson, Global Post | 08:14 am

HONG KONG, China — With a US ally engaged in a tense standoff with China over disputed territory in the South China Sea, America risks wading into increasingly perilous waters.

The conflict began in mid-April, when a Filipino frigate — a 1960s Coast Guard vessel bought from the United States — attempted to stop several boats of Chinese fishermen who had taken live sharks, giant clams and coral from waters claimed by the Philippines around a rocky patch called the Scarborough Shoal. The Chinese dispatched several larger, more modern boats from one of its civilian maritime agencies, which intercepted the frigate, allowing the fisherman to escape with their catch. Filipino fishermen say they have since been barred from fishing in the lagoon.

Now, after nearly a month, ships from the two nations have refused to budge from the waters surrounding the shoal, while populists back home have whipped up a nationalist frenzy.

In the Philippines, the office of the president declared that it was unilaterally renaming the disputed land, “Panatag Shoal.” (Chinese call it Huangyan Island.) In China, a video went viral on Wednesday showing a TV anchor pronouncing — falsely — that the Philippines is “Chinese territory,” and that China “has unquestionable sovereignty” over the island nation. Meanwhile, a major general wrote an op-ed urging the Chinese navy to smash the Philippines “with both fists” next time, generating 174,000 responses — the majority of them supportive.

This scuffle is merely one of dozens of overlapping, contradictory claims for territory in the South China Sea, where the nations of Southeast Asia are facing off against an increasingly assertive China — and against one another.

“China certainly shares much of the blame for the current standoff. Its claims to the South China Sea, based on limited historical evidence, do not provide a significant basis to make sweeping, unilateral assertions,” says Andrew Billo of the Asia Society.

More from GlobalPost: Chinese cars, made in Bulgaria

Where does the US fit into this toxic brew of jingoism, nationalism, and disputed territory? Its strategic shift to the Pacific, geopolitical rivalry with China, and alliance with the Philippines have inescapably drawn American interests to the Asian hotspot.

In early May, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton outlined America’s emerging priorities in the South China Sea: freedom of navigation, unimpeded commerce, maintenance of peace and stability, and respect for international law.

Beyond that, the sea plays an enormously valuable role as the international highway of global trade. Half of all the world’s intercontinental goods pass through the South China Sea, amounting to $1.2 trillion in trade with the US every year, according to a January report from the Center for New American Security. And its untapped energy resources are vast: 900 trillion cubic feet of natural gas, and as much as 130 billion barrels of oil are estimated to lie undiscovered beneath the seabed.

“The geostrategic significance of the South China Sea is difficult to overstate,” the authors of the CNAS report write. “The South China Sea functions as the throat of the Western Pacific and Indian Oceans.” Yet, they note, American interests in the region “are increasingly at risk” due to “the economic and military rise of China and concerns about its willingness to uphold existing legal norms.”

Taking any overt action to defend those interests would set off alarm bells in China. Last month, after Americans posted 4,500 personnel to the Philippines — coincidentally during the April standoff over Scarborough Shoal — Chinese critics blasted the US for “meddling” in regional affairs.

More from GlobalPost: After the tsunami

Since then, the US has exercised caution, refusing to take sides in the dispute, even as Manila requested support.

Complicating matters further is the difficulty of weighing the validity of the competing claims.

Since the 1940s, Chinese maps have included a “9-dash line" that encircles nearly all of the South China Sea; Beijing has yet to explain what the line means. Vietnam has meanwhile ramped up its naval power, while proceeding to sell oil rights in disputed territory to Western companies. Belatedly, the Philippines has become more forceful in asserting its exclusive rights to areas — such as Scarborough Shoal — that Chinese fisherman have visited for generations.

Even if they looked to the United Nations for resolution, the International Tribunal for the Law of the Seas has no power to settle disputes over sovereignty. And while diplomacy stalls, fishermen and civilian ships from each country are taking matters into their own hands.

“We’re now running a risk of an accident or confrontation arising from lack of clear instructions on how to behave,” says Carlyle Thayer, professor emeritus at the Australian Defence Force Academy. “The South China Sea is like a bathtub: When you put more ships in it, there’s going to be a collision.”

While efforts are underway in ASEAN, the regional association, to create a binding “Code of Conduct” on the seas, it has proved too feeble to stand up against Chinese pressure. “Some nervous nellies in ASEAN don’t want to confront China,” says Thayer.

So where does that leave the US? In the awkward position of being the final backstop against China, while simultaneously trying to maintain an appearance of neutrality. That means honoring its military commitments to the Philippines, Thayer says, while stopping short of endorsing its allies' assertion of territorial rights.

“The US should continue backing the Philippines," says Thayer. "That’s the weak reed, and if China breaks the Philippines, it will affect other countries’ claims.”

Other experts say that America's main focus should be on guaranteeing the freedom of global trade routes, while leaving the mess of sorting out sovereignty to the states themselves.

“The US should take a step back from the issue,” says Billo of the Asian Society, “It has made its point with respect to its support for a key ally, and the region as a whole, but ultimately it is in the US interest to have regional stability and not allow the conflict to escalate further.”


China-Philippines standoff: Will the US military get involved? | MinnPost

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The philippines can best be used as a tool to add a bargin chip only for the US to enhance US interest. Love it or hate it, that's it! :agree:

SCS dispute is not US core interest, as long as China promises to make freedom of trade and navigation (of course for non-hostile countries) in SCS. In fact international community should trust China to be in charge of freedom in SCS, and make China responsible for security there.
 
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gpit said:
The philippines can best be used as a tool to add a bargin chip only for the US to enhance US interest. Love it or hate it, that's it!

SCS dispute is not US core interest, as long as China promises to make freedom of trade and navigation (of course for non-hostile countries) in SCS. In fact international community should trust China to be in charge of freedom in SCS, and make China responsible for security there.
Just wait for the answer from Phillipino in their protest and see if it turn into Hoa's massacre like in Indonesia or not :)
A Philippine global day of protest against 'China's aggression'
Updated 11 May 2012, 10:26 AEST
China has warned its citizens in Manila to stay indoors tomorrow, in anticipation of a protest planned for the Philippine capital's business district.
http://www.radioaustralia.net.au/in...y-of-protest-against-chinas-aggression/941798
 
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Military now mum on Panatag situation - The Philippine Star » News » Headlines

orpsmanup posted on May 11, 2012 09:12 AM

There will only be 2 options here for the PHL Navy and PHL Government: 1) To disengage from the stand-off to de-escalate any rumored tensions in the region and use all possible avenue for diplomatic negotiations. 2) ......Okay, actually that would be it. Please remember that most, if not all fire power on that ship has been removed prior to turn over. I would suspect that the 50 cal is still on it, but i doubt if we have enough rounds loaded to sustain a full blown confrontation.

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gabo0412 posted on May 11, 2012 09:04 AM

pity us, even our own govt cannot do anything but tell us to ignore it. chinese is loitering in our own backyard and we just let them. their stance to ignore what the chinese were doing is quite disturbing. they were limit the info on panatag shoal. the chinese are doing everything now from issuing travel advisory and restriction of phil products. then whats next? and we are swallowing all of this!!

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bikante_ako posted on May 11, 2012 09:04 AM

dhu wag kasi ang mga pinoy sa dayuhan lalo na sa puti at chinese

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bikante_ako posted on May 11, 2012 09:03 AM

Quote:
mommy007 wrote:
....sa mga rebelde nga nahihirapan na ...paano pa yung chinese military.........magaling lang ang military/gobyerno sa corruption..........other than that wala na.........

mommy007: pa'no kasi inu-omit yung budget, maliit na nga aasuwangin pa. normal kasi sa pinoy ang corrupted mind-frame, kaya useless ang PMA na yan.
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gemarcher posted on May 11, 2012 08:58 AM

while not trying to escalate tensions in the panatag shoal, this government should also at the same time show our firm resolve to claim this territory. it's amazing that this government is at a loss as to how to rrespond to the military posturing of the chinese. i still have to hear a convincing statement from this president specific to this situation. at least sen enrile stated clearly his position in the ocntext of owning this disputed islands.

Report abuse | Reply
mommy007 posted on May 11, 2012 08:51 AM

....sa mga rebelde nga nahihirapan na ...paano pa yung chinese military.........magaling lang ang military/gobyerno sa corruption..........other than that wala na.........

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barberongpinoy posted on May 11, 2012 08:35 AM

Quote:
jaketavera wrote:
Let us see if NoyNoy Aquino can fight the Chinese and protect our territory with the same passion and ferocity he employs against the Coronas.

jaketavera:

This is not just PNoy's fight, this is every Filipino's fight. Scarborough is ours and not just PNoy's.

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corpsmanup posted on May 11, 2012 08:31 AM

I almost. almost, wish that someone would take the first shot. I would like to see how much our Filipino troops have retained with all the military excercise you've been doing with our US Armed Forces. It will also a gauge on how much the PHL military still needs to defend and strengthten your shores...

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pordoy posted on May 11, 2012 07:40 AM

The only weapon we have is 1 million bancas full of dynamite. This is personally owned. Can our military understand how to use it or develop it? They are finally scared to talk SH!t. It works here very well but looks pfulish to the world. China understands very well our armed forces are less than a paper tiger. They are nothing but stolen toilet paper in the generals CR's. Maybe they can study shaped charges for the floater bancas.

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jaketavera posted on May 11, 2012 07:31 AM

Let us see if NoyNoy Aquino can fight the Chinese and protect our territory with the same passion and ferocity he employs against the Coronas.

Report abuse | Reply
t2_ekim posted on May 11, 2012 05:47 AM

I just realize the boy along the Pasig River is a Chinese whose decendants are from Fujian province.No wonder China declared Philippines their territory.

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dongcanini posted on May 11, 2012 05:25 AM

I'm afraid that it will take a few life and limb of Filipino navy personnels for the MDF (Mutual Defense Treaty ) to work. Hope of all hope that these Chinese won't push the Filipinos that far. China's gunboat diplomacy will only create a crisis in the west Phil;ippine sea and will just backfire, a disadvantage for the Chinese.

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dulit posted on May 11, 2012 04:10 AM

firepower for firepower? the philippines is 40 years behind compared to the military hardware from other countries much more with china. of course pinas will back off because they don't have the capability to meet the military might of china. hanggang salita lang naman ang mga heneral na yan, pare-pareho silang mga BULOK. they are now being haunted by corruption. beg US for help because you need them. invoke whatever agreement you signed in the 1940's. they are also haunted by the politicians who voted to oust the US from pinas. what's the next move? nada, zit. quid pro quo. solve your own problem.

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redprince posted on May 11, 2012 03:16 AM

Quote:
mokamiquattro wrote:
of course AFP is mum...because wala naman kakayahan at magawa ang AFP to challenge a sleeping giant who pursuit to challenge the current giant (US)..AFP..we console you for whatever the civil government did to you for the past 25 years or so..resulta lang to ng Martial Law ika nga..you give em too much power and see what happens...to the AFP... state of PITY!

mokamiquattro:
correction... China is not a sleeping giant. They are fully awake and a desperate bully!

Report abuse | Reply
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funny comments of Filipino
 
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A group of Hong Kong activists protested outside the Philippine consulate office Thursday against a standoff near the Scarborough Shoal in the South China Sea, reiterating China's sovereignty claim over the reef since the 1200s in a monthlong territorial row with the Philippines.

HK activists protest against Scarborough Shoal standoff - The China Post

Taiwan has advised its citizens in the Philippines to pay attention to their personal safety, in anticipation of large-scale anti-China protests in the Southeast Asian country.

http://www.chinapost.com.tw/taiwan/foreign-affairs/2012/05/11/340698/Taiwan-alerts.htm
 
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Why does China always loudly claim Scarborough Shoal under the "sovereignty" of China, but she did not dare to international courts to prove that, at the invitation of the Philippines?
 
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A group of Hong Kong activists protested outside the Philippine consulate office Thursday against a standoff near the Scarborough Shoal in the South China Sea, reiterating China's sovereignty claim over the reef since the 1200s in a monthlong territorial row with the Philippines.

HK activists protest against Scarborough Shoal standoff - The China Post
HK protest ???...so funny, cheer :lol:
manila-philippines-filipinos-taking-photos-during-hostage-crisis-02.jpg

manila-philippines-filipinos-taking-photos-during-hostage-crisis-04.jpg
 
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Why does China always loudly claim Scarborough Shoal under the "sovereignty" of China, but she did not dare to international courts to prove that, at the invitation of the Philippines?


If you have a dispute with Laos, would you like to bring International Court in? It's a matter of national sovereignty and dignity that's none of others business but you two.
 
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If you have a dispute with Laos, would you like to bring International Court in? It's a matter of national sovereignty and dignity that's none of others business but you two.

Together go to the international court is a good way to solve the standoff. If you are confident there is sufficient evidence, is not it the best chance to solve the problem?
If we have a dispute with Laos, we are ready with them to international courts. Sadly, we do not have any dispute with our allies Laos.
 
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If you have a dispute with Laos, would you like to bring International Court in? It's a matter of national sovereignty and dignity that's none of others business but you two.
Laos-Camb are our special brother, we can share our land and resouce together. If laos-Camb have border dispute with Chinese-Thai King , we will support their military action to flatten his Royal palace:P
 
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Together go to the international court is a good way to solve the standoff. If you are confident there is sufficient evidence, is not it the best chance to solve the problem?
If we have a dispute with Laos, we are ready with them to international courts. Sadly, we do not have any dispute with our allies Laos.


A strong man control his own destinies and do not leave his fate for others to decide.

BTW I did not say you have disputes with Laos.
 
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Despite how powerful, he must also live and work under general law, if he does not want to become a thug or a gangster.


Didn't China ask Philippines to come to the table? No she wants to escalate and internationalize the disputes, begging whoever is listening to come in. She incites demonstrations and spread lies against China. Is it a way to treat another country?

China is the second strongest country in the world, economically and militarily, even the most powerful one, the US, gives her the due respects. And if other countries ignore her position they are the ones to be blame, not China.

China's position in the SCS is very clear. She claims all the shoals in the area and if any nation thinks otherwise then negotiations are possible. If anyone unilaterally takes actions and occupies these shoals actions are called for.
 
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