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Saudi nuclear weapons 'on order' from Pakistan

Edevelop

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Saudi Arabia has invested in Pakistani nuclear weapons projects, and believes it could obtain atomic bombs at will, a variety of sources have told BBC Newsnight.

While the kingdom's quest has often been set in the context of countering Iran's atomic programme, it is now possible that the Saudis might be able to deploy such devices more quickly than the Islamic republic.


Earlier this year, a senior Nato decision maker told me that he had seen intelligence reporting that nuclear weapons made in Pakistan on behalf of Saudi Arabia are now sitting ready for delivery.

Last month Amos Yadlin, a former head of Israeli military intelligence, told a conference in Sweden that if Iran got the bomb, "the Saudis will not wait one month. They already paid for the bomb, they will go to Pakistan and bring what they need to bring."

Since 2009, when King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia warned visiting US special envoy to the Middle East Dennis Ross that if Iran crossed the threshold, "we will get nuclear weapons", the kingdom has sent the Americans numerous signals of its intentions.

Gary Samore, until March 2013 President Barack Obama's counter-proliferation adviser, has told Newsnight:

"I do think that the Saudis believe that they have some understanding with Pakistan that, in extremis, they would have claim to acquire nuclear weapons from Pakistan."


The story of Saudi Arabia's project - including the acquisition of missiles capable of delivering nuclear warheads over long ranges - goes back decades.

In the late 1980s they secretly bought dozens of CSS-2 ballistic missiles from China.

These rockets, considered by many experts too inaccurate for use as conventional weapons, were deployed 20 years ago.

This summer experts at defence publishers Jane's reported the completion of a new Saudi CSS-2 base with missile launch rails aligned with Israel and Iran.

It has also been clear for many years that Saudi Arabia has given generous financial assistance to Pakistan's defence sector, including, western experts allege, to its missile and nuclear labs.

Visits by the then Saudi defence minister Prince Sultan bin Abdulaziz al Saud to the Pakistani nuclear research centre in 1999 and 2002 underlined the closeness of the defence relationship.

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Defence publisher Jane’s revealed the existence of Saudi Arabia’s third and undisclosed intermediate-range ballistic missile site, approximately 200 km southwest of Riyadh

In its quest for a strategic deterrent against India, Pakistan co-operated closely with China which sold them missiles and provided the design for a nuclear warhead.

The Pakistani scientist Abdul Qadeer Khan was accused by western intelligence agencies of selling atomic know-how and uranium enrichment centrifuges to Libya and North Korea.

AQ Khan is also believed to have passed the Chinese nuclear weapon design to those countries. This blueprint was for a device engineered to fit on the CSS-2 missile, i.e the same type sold to Saudi Arabia.

Because of this circumstantial evidence, allegations of a Saudi-Pakistani nuclear deal started to circulate even in the 1990s, but were denied by Saudi officials.

They noted that their country had signed the Non-Proliferation Treaty, and called for a nuclear-free Middle East, pointing to Israel's possession of such weapons.

The fact that handing over atom bombs to a foreign government could create huge political difficulties for Pakistan, not least with the World Bank and other donors, added to scepticism about those early claims.


In Eating the Grass, his semi-official history of the Pakistani nuclear program, Major General Feroz Hassan Khan wrote that Prince Sultan's visits to Pakistan's atomic labs were not proof of an agreement between the two countries. But he acknowledged, "Saudi Arabia provided generous financial support to Pakistan that enabled the nuclear program to continue."

Whatever understandings did or did not exist between the two countries in the 1990s, it was around 2003 that the kingdom started serious strategic thinking about its changing security environment and the prospect of nuclear proliferation.

A paper leaked that year by senior Saudi officials mapped out three possible responses - to acquire their own nuclear weapons, to enter into an arrangement with another nuclear power to protect the kingdom, or to rely on the establishment of a nuclear-free zone in the Middle East.

It was around the same time, following the US invasion of Iraq, that serious strains in the US/Saudi relationship began to show themselves, says Gary Samore.

The Saudis resented the removal of Saddam Hussein, had long been unhappy about US policy on Israel, and were growing increasingly concerned about the Iranian nuclear program.

In the years that followed, diplomatic chatter about Saudi-Pakistani nuclear cooperation began to increase.

In 2007, the US mission in Riyadh noted they were being asked questions by Pakistani diplomats about US knowledge of "Saudi-Pakistani nuclear cooperation".

The unnamed Pakistanis opined that "it is logical for the Saudis to step in as the physical 'protector'" of the Arab world by seeking nuclear weapons, according to one of the State Department cables posted by Wikileaks.

By the end of that decade Saudi princes and officials were giving explicit warnings of their intention to acquire nuclear weapons if Iran did.

Having warned the Americans in private for years, last year Saudi officials in Riyadh escalated it to a public warning, telling a journalist from the Times "it would be completely unacceptable to have Iran with a nuclear capability and not the kingdom".

But were these statements bluster, aimed at forcing a stronger US line on Iran, or were they evidence of a deliberate, long-term plan for a Saudi bomb? Both, is the answer I have received from former key officials.

One senior Pakistani, speaking on background terms, confirmed the broad nature of the deal - probably unwritten - his country had reached with the kingdom and asked rhetorically "what did we think the Saudis were giving us all that money for? It wasn't charity."

Another, a one-time intelligence officer from the same country, said he believed "the Pakistanis certainly maintain a certain number of warheads on the basis that if the Saudis were to ask for them at any given time they would immediately be transferred."

As for the seriousness of the Saudi threat to make good on the deal, Simon Henderson, Director of the Global Gulf and Energy Policy Program at the Washington Institute for Near East Policy, told BBC Newsnight "the Saudis speak about Iran and nuclear matters very seriously. They don't bluff on this issue."

Talking to many serving and former officials about this over the past few months, the only real debate I have found is about how exactly the Saudi Arabians would redeem the bargain with Pakistan.

Some think it is a cash-and-carry deal for warheads, the first of those options sketched out by the Saudis back in 2003; others that it is the second, an arrangement under which Pakistani nuclear forces could be deployed in the kingdom.

Gary Samore, considering these questions at the centre of the US intelligence and policy web, at the White House until earlier this year, thinks that what he calls, "the Nato model", is more likely.

However ,"I think just giving Saudi Arabia a handful of nuclear weapons would be a very provocative action", says Gary Samore.

He adds: "I've always thought it was much more likely - the most likely option if Pakistan were to honour any agreement would be for be for Pakistan to send its own forces, its own troops armed with nuclear weapons and with delivery systems to be deployed in Saudi Arabia".

This would give a big political advantage to Pakistan since it would allow them to deny that they had simply handed over the weapons, but implies a dual key system in which they would need to agree in order for 'Saudi Arabian' "nukes" to be launched.

Others I have spoken to think this is not credible, since Saudi Arabia, which regards itself as the leader of the broader Sunni Islamic 'ummah' or community, would want complete control of its nuclear deterrent, particularly at this time of worsening sectarian confrontation with Shia Iran.

And it is Israeli information - that Saudi Arabia is now ready to take delivery of finished warheads for its long-range missiles - that informs some recent US and Nato intelligence reporting. Israel of course shares Saudi Arabia's motive in wanting to worry the US into containing Iran.

Amos Yadlin declined to be interviewed for our BBC Newsnight report, but told me by email that "unlike other potential regional threats, the Saudi one is very credible and imminent."

Even if this view is accurate there are many good reasons for Saudi Arabia to leave its nuclear warheads in Pakistan for the time being.

Doing so allows the kingdom to deny there are any on its soil. It avoids challenging Iran to cross the nuclear threshold in response, and it insulates Pakistan from the international opprobrium of being seen to operate an atomic cash-and-carry.

These assumptions though may not be safe for much longer. The US diplomatic thaw with Iran has touched deep insecurities in Riyadh, which fears that any deal to constrain the Islamic republic's nuclear program would be ineffective.

Earlier this month the Saudi intelligence chief and former ambassador to Washington Prince Bandar announced that the kingdom would be distancing itself more from the US.

While investigating this, I have heard rumours on the diplomatic grapevine, that Pakistan has recently actually delivered Shaheen mobile ballistic missiles to Saudi Arabia, minus warheads.

These reports, still unconfirmed, would suggest an ability to deploy nuclear weapons in the kingdom, and mount them on an effective, modern, missile system more quickly than some analysts had previously imagined.

In Egypt, Saudi Arabia showed itself ready to step in with large-scale backing following the military overthrow of President Mohammed Morsi's government.

There is a message here for Pakistan, of Riyadh being ready to replace US military assistance or World Bank loans, if standing with Saudi Arabia causes a country to lose them.

Newsnight contacted both the Pakistani and Saudi governments. The Pakistan Foreign Ministry has described our story as "speculative, mischievous and baseless".

It adds: "Pakistan is a responsible nuclear weapon state with robust command and control structures and comprehensive export controls."

The Saudi embassy in London has also issued a statement pointing out that the Kingdom is a signatory to the Non-Proliferation Treaty and has worked for a nuclear free Middle East.

But it also points out that the UN's "failure to make the Middle East a nuclear free zone is one of the reasons the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia rejected the offer of a seat on the UN Security Council".

It says the Saudi Foreign Minister has stressed that this lack of international action "has put the region under the threat of a time bomb that cannot easily be defused by manoeuvring around it".

Watch more from Mark Urban on Saudi Arabia on Newsnight on Wednesday 6 November 2013 at 2230 on BBC Two, and then afterwards

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-24823846
 
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Pakistan SHOULD supply nukes to ALL muslim countries especially those surrounding Israel. Secretly or openly. By hooks or by crooks we must surround Israel....


Israel is the "parrot" that contains the soul of the beast of Dajjal (zionist-US-&-Co.). If ever Dajjal threatened Pakistan, we might not have military power to confront Dajjal, but we can threaten to make israel extinct. That would keep Dajjal at bay. Just like strangling the neck of parrot would kill the Jinn in Alif-Laila tales.



Dude, no one eyed physical person is ever gonna show up whom you are waiting for. You'll keep waiting till the end of time & still there won't be any such left-eyed physical person. Prophecies of Dajjal were symbolic & zionists who are pretty much in-charge of US constitute that Dajjal, whom bibles prophecises as the beast of 666.


Prophecies include a donkey with 60 feet between two of it's ears...!!! You think you'll ever see a donkey with it's ears 60 feet apart??? Never. It was metaphorical reference to fighter-jets that zionist-US used to attack Muslim countries.



Dajjal's voice would reach every person on earth.... metaphorical reference to zionist-controlled-MSM (main stream media). Dajjal means great deceiver. It deceives thru MSM. They tell you lies and you believe those lies as truth. Dajjal told you 911 was done by muslims, & u believed that lie. Dajjal told u osama was killed in Abbatabad, & u believed that lie. So on.



Dajjal's last expedition was to be Syria, as per predictions,,,, So there we have Dajjal active in Syria RIGHT NOW.... Dajjal (zionist-US-&-co.) just killed thousands of innocent babies/children in a chemical incidence. That's how EVIL they are. They told you it was Syrian government, & u believed that lie too.



Those who'll have faith in Dajjal will be happy,,, see our politicians/some military generals/certain media traitors... They are happy and rich. See general public, they are in misery because they are opposed to zionist-US. But Prophet told that those who are in Paradise of Dajjal would end in God's hell, and those in hell created by Dajjal will be in God's paradise...
 
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@Oscar

mods please close this thread as it can lead to controversies regarding Pakistan's nuclear program, which should be avoided ,posters should exhibit a sense of maturity & restrain on posting such sensitive geo-strategic issues for their immature jingoistic appetite with out knowing the consequences of it on Pakistan's image, & might created a negative impression of Pakistan as pdf is a reputable defense website regarding Pakistan's defense related discussion which is wide read on the net & as such it has an impression on the viewers , topics on Pakistan's nuclear program which might hint @ proliferation's issues should not be allowed IMHO
 
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A highly provocative article. It says nothing new as such. Most of this material has been around for a decade or so. Knowledgeable people in Pakistan have guessed that Pakistan has provided Saudi Arabia an unwritten guarantee of a nuclear umbrella.

But what troubles me is the timing of this article. When one considers the Israeli angle in this story, one can easily guess the motivation and intended impact of this article. The Israelis are going berserk over the prospect of improving US-Iranian dynamic and see the chances of an attack on Iran going to zero. This article is borne of desperation. Iranians will acquire the capability of enrichment of fissile material and for now that is enough for them. They probably would not go for the bomb for a while. Western countries realize this and probably accept this stance without publicly saying so. Bottom line is that Israelis just can not bring themselves to accept this state of affairs and are trying their best to use their contacts and minions to paint one horror story after another.

Just take a look at the following excerpt from the article posted above:

"And it is Israeli information - that Saudi Arabia is now ready to take delivery of finished warheads for its long-range missiles - that informs some recent US and Nato intelligence reporting. Israel of course shares Saudi Arabia's motive in wanting to worry the US into containing Iran.

Amos Yadlin declined to be interviewed for our BBC Newsnight report, but told me by email that "unlike other potential regional threats, the Saudi one is very credible and imminent."

Even if this view is accurate there are many good reasons for Saudi Arabia to leave its nuclear warheads in Pakistan for the time being."


Notice that the information is 'Israeli'. The author then goes on to extrapolate information and makes the snide remark that: "there are many good reasons for Saudi Arabia to leave its nuclear warheads in Pakistan for the time being."

The author's slipping in the word 'its' is really telling and shows how journalists can be bought to plant fabrications.

I do not think that Israelis would be fooling anyone with this story. They've lost the plot already. Who are they trying to kid?
 
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There is always the possibility of KSA - Pakistan Defence Pact which would automatically trigger Pakistan support and response in case Iran attacks KSA with nuclear attack.
 
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Pakistan SHOULD supply nukes to ALL muslim countries especially those surrounding Israel. Secretly or openly. By hooks or by crooks we must surround Israel....


Israel is the "parrot" that contains the soul of the beast of Dajjal. If ever Dajjal threatened Pakistan, we might not have military power to confront Dajjal, but we can threaten to make israel extinct. That would keep Dajjal at bay. Just like strangling the neck of parrot would kill the Jinn in Alif-Laila tales.

Dude, you are deluding yourself and wasting other people's time. Whatever happens in end-times is up to Allah, not us. Dajjal, when he comes would do what Allah allows him to do. I or you can not 'keep him at bay'. Muslims at that time would deal with the situation as they see fit. It is not for us to worry about needlessly.

Think before you post. Think about the impact of your thoughts upon others who read them. Do you really wish for practicing and believing Muslims to come across as lunatics? Are you who you say you are? Is it your job to make practicing Muslims seem like idiots?
 
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@Oscar

mods please close this thread as it can lead to controversies regarding Pakistan's nuclear program, which should be avoided ,posters should exhibit a sense of maturity & restrain on posting such sensitive geo-strategic issues for their immature jingoistic appetite with out knowing the consequences of it on Pakistan's image, & might created a negative impression of Pakistan as pdf is a reputable defense website regarding Pakistan's defense related discussion which is wide read on the net & as such it has an impression on the viewers , topics on Pakistan's nuclear program which might hint @ proliferation's issues should not be allowed IMHO

Brother PDF is indeed widely read, but it is a bit like a walk-in zoo. Anybody can register and start writing crap. Indeed some people come here only to write crap. Ever notice false-flaggers and nutjobs coming here in full force to do their thing. So relax, nothing is particularly wrong with sharing this story. It has already been doing rounds around the world and its being discussed here would not make its impact any worse.

The article is a simple plant, and anyone with a few functioning neurons can see this. I am going to post a couple of representative tweets to make things a bit clear:

Myra MacDonald ‏@myraemacdonald3h
Very, very old story and heavily contested. #Saudi nuclear weapons 'on order' from #Pakistan http://bbc.in/1fkueEz #Iran @shashj

Shashank Joshi ‏@shashj2h
@myraemacdonald Wrote on this very sceptically in my Whitehall Paper on Iran. We're bad at reading Saudi bluffs. Too credulous.

Myra MacDonald ‏@myraemacdonald2h
@shashj Yes remember you writing that. But also time warp? If the argument was that if Iran moved further towards nukes, KSA would too (m)

Omar Waraich ‏@OmarWaraich2h
@shashj @myraemacdonald the Saudis aren't even giving their best bud Nawaz oil amid an energy crisis - why would Pakistan ship nukes?

I hope this makes things a bit clear. So, no worries then. People who know are not there to be fooled by any two bit Israeli planted 'story'. And there is nothing wrong with discussing this as such. At least we get to know who is who on this forum. Both nutters and false-flaggers.
 
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@Chak Bamu @Oscar I was saying it for quite some time but Oscar call it child's dream and many thing else Sir Saudi Arabia was funding this program from day one and for good reason no matter how much power the become economically and militarily its this program which will guarantee safety of both Pakistan and Saudi Arabia and that is why Pakistan is working every day to increase its nuclear weapons and make the more lethal and also work on other kind of destructive materials to fit in its missiles and also work on ICBMS but will test them when needed not now
 
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Saudi Arabia has invested in Pakistani nuclear weapons projects, and believes it could obtain atomic bombs at will, a variety of sources have told BBC Newsnight.

While the kingdom's quest has often been set in the context of countering Iran's atomic programme, it is now possible that the Saudis might be able to deploy such devices more quickly than the Islamic republic.

Earlier this year, a senior Nato decision maker told me that he had seen intelligence reporting that nuclear weapons made in Pakistan on behalf of Saudi Arabia are now sitting ready for delivery.

Last month Amos Yadlin, a former head of Israeli military intelligence, told a conference in Sweden that if Iran got the bomb, "the Saudis will not wait one month. They already paid for the bomb, they will go to Pakistan and bring what they need to bring."

Since 2009, when King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia warned visiting US special envoy to the Middle East Dennis Ross that if Iran crossed the threshold, "we will get nuclear weapons", the kingdom has sent the Americans numerous signals of its intentions.

Gary Samore, until March 2013 President Barack Obama's counter-proliferation adviser, has told Newsnight:
"I do think that the Saudis believe that they have some understanding with Pakistan that, in extremis, they would have claim to acquire nuclear weapons from Pakistan."

The story of Saudi Arabia's project - including the acquisition of missiles capable of delivering nuclear warheads over long ranges - goes back decades.

In the late 1980s they secretly bought dozens of CSS-2 ballistic missiles from China.

These rockets, considered by many experts too inaccurate for use as conventional weapons, were deployed 20 years ago.

This summer experts at defence publishers Jane's reported the completion of a new Saudi CSS-2 base with missile launch rails aligned with Israel and Iran.

It has also been clear for many years that Saudi Arabia has given generous financial assistance to Pakistan's defence sector, including, western experts allege, to its missile and nuclear labs.

Visits by the then Saudi defence minister Prince Sultan bin Abdulaziz al Saud to the Pakistani nuclear research centre in 1999 and 2002 underlined the closeness of the defence relationship.

BBC News - Saudi nuclear weapons 'on order' from Pakistan
 
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Life as usual...Another case of nuke proliferation by Pakistan :coffee:
 
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Its a fake news, Who cares...

Well BTW Pakistan should give each arab state at least 5 nukes so that Israel knows its limits long ago...
 
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