Saudi crown prince: Israel and Saudi Arabia moving closer to normalization ‘every day’

[Trench Broom]

You might be surprised, Abdul.

You see these, um, pagans and Jews are both non proselytizing religions/people. This means that they are not seen as a threat to each other.

You don't know your bible. pagans were arch enemies of Jews. All the harsh language about non-believers in the Hebrew bible is aimed at pagans.

 

[A Voice of Reason]

You don't know your bible. pagans were arch enemies of Jews. All the harsh language about non-believers in the Hebrew bible is aimed at pagans.

I assure you that I am more familiar with said Bible than most.

Even should they be pagans, i.e. Idol worshippers, Israel still does NOT conduct its foreign policy based on how monotheistic a religion the inhabitants of said country are.
As a matter of fact Jews have been trading with places most likely to have been India and Sri Lanka since Biblical times.

While we are on the subject, it is also a matter of considerable debate whether Hinduism itself is a monotheistic religion or not. I am far from an expert on that religion but Hindu leaders told the Israeli chief rabbi that Hinduism itself is even if many if it's followers happen to worship idols.

Metzger meets Hindu leaders in India

New Delhi conference leads to resolution denouncing terrorism, violence.

m.jpost.com

SPIEGEL Interview With Rabbi Yona Metzger: 'My Dream Is to Create a United Religious Nations'

Yona Metzger, the Ashkenazi Chief Rabbi of Israel, talks to SPIEGEL ONLINE about the Abraham as the father of all three monotheistic religions -- Islam, Christianity and Judaism -- and explains how that connection could be a starting point for a dialogue of peace between them.

www.spiegel.de

 

[A Voice of Reason]

That's a strange spin. It's a peace treaty. Requiring more commitment and security guarantees than whatever the normalization is that is talked about here. Egypt and Jordan have to oblige by the conditions of the peace treaty which they have done for decades.

Clearly, then, Palestinian cause is not holding back anything. If Israel's neighbors made such huge concessions and are facing such obstacles.

They don't need trade with Israel. Lack of trade with Israel isn't what's holding them back. Israel's existence and hegemony over the region is. Mind you, both these nations have trade with Israel.

And? It has a deal with the EU. The gas is stolen from Palestinian fields. Yet the inflation rate is through the roof in Egypt.

Post your source. Egypt has its own gas field as well which will enter production later this year.

Israel continues to support Ethiopian dam project and the govt in Ethiopia so that Egypt will become water scarce in a year or two. That's what Egypt got for recognizing Israel.


So contrary to what the pro-Israel bots are mentioning on the thread, recognizing Israel brings no gain. Actually brings harm to your country instead.

You are mistaken if you think they needed a treaty with Israel. Israel is nothing without the US. It needed a major airlift by the US to arm itself in the 73 war. It needs US sanctions and unparalleled US support. Even a clause to intervene militarily on behalf of Israel. These countries have much more to gain if they destroy the Israeli hegemony over the region. There's nothing that Israel can offer to them.

It's Israel that gains from it. As it seeks the final nail into the coffin against the Palestinian cause. And it will continue to threaten and bully it's neighbors.

UAE is not prospering because of Israel. UAE just happened to join BRICS too. Tells you something about their future outlook. It's not even remotely dependent on Israel.

For some reason the online edit bar is grayed out for me. If anyone knows how to have it to come back I would be greatful. It makes quoting and commenting so much easier.

Anyway, the thesis that you espouse does not stand up to scrutiny. The pattern is actually clear. The more ME countries have normalized with Israel the more they have gained.

I'll address your suggested points.

- The reason it is called a peace treaty is because these two countries border Israel and have gone to war with each other in the past.

Normalization is slightly different in that it takes things a step further. Not only a grudging acceptance with formal but minimal/practical relations, but an enthusiastic welcome of normal full blown relationships between friendly countries.

- Israel made huge concessions to Egypt for peace.

- Israel's hegemony, in my opinion, exists only in the minds of the brainwashed or cretins.

- Egypt is having huge monetary issues DESPITE its trade with Israel. This is because a) as I said above, it's been mostly a cold peace. Trade could be much higher than it is however, and b) Egypt's problems are so numerous - demographic, corruption, economic policies, subsidies, political volatility, food insecurities (e.g. the Ukraine war) and much more. A mere few hundred million USD in trade or even the Billions the USA gives them is not addressing the root of their existential problems. One cannot drain the ocean with a mere thimble.

- The difference (one of them) between Egypt and the UAE is that Egypt signed but over the decades has dragged its feet on real normalization. Egyptians just for instance made Israeli tourists unwelcome. The UAE has gone the reverse.

Just a small example:

https://www.cnn.com/style/article/uae-abrahamic-family-house-david-adjaye-intl/index.html

However following the Abraham Accords, Egypt seems to have belatedly woken up and is now actively pursuing ways to get in on at least all this increased trade happening.

Egypt, Israel expand economic ties

Cairo and Tel Aviv strengthen trade and economic cooperation and increase their export capacity under the protocol of the Qualified Industrial Zone.

www.al-monitor.com

You asked for sources about Egypt's gas challanges. I noted it is importing more from Israel and that its production was declining.

I rarely posit a fact without having a source to back it up.

Egypt's natural gas production declines and power cuts bite

Egypt's natural gas production fell to a three-year low in the first five months of 2023, figures from the Joint Organisations Data Initiative (JODI) show, raising questions about the country's efforts to position itself as a regional energy hub.

www.reuters.com

Israel will expand gas exports to Egypt, says energy ministry

Israel on Wednesday said it will boost natural gas production from its offshore Tamar field and increase exports to Egypt, which is contending with rising demand and falling output.

www.reuters.com

Israel approves increase in gas exports to Egypt

Israel restricts gas exports but energy minister says increase will boost revenues and diplomatic ties.

www.aljazeera.com

- The peace agreements, (even if they stopped short of enthusiastic normalization) actually brought huge benefits. Egypt for instance got the Sinai including the Israeli developed oil wells and was even selling oil to Israel for a while. It got and last I heard is still getting billions of USD in support from the USA since it signed. It gets active security cooperation such as against Da'esh in the Sinai. It got Islands in the Red Sea, which it then gave to KSA. Etc etc. PS. Not having tens of thousands of dead from wars should also be counted as a win me thinks.

- I did not say that the UAE is prospering soley because of the Abraham Accords or that it is dependent on Israel. Please do not twist my words.

The UAE has no regrets thanks, at the very least, to the billions in bilateral trade, (2+ to 1 in UAEs favour I should add), the boost to its tourism sector, and the strategic air defence systems it received because of the accords. Even Al Jazeera notes this. Normalization with Israel is only one of the good decisions the UAE made that has helped it prosper. It is hardly the only one. Actually the UAE trade with Israel is doubling each year, however as impressive as it is, it is merely a good start as far as the UAE is concerned. It wishes to step up the relationship tremendously.

UAE Eyes $1 Trillion Economic Activity With Israel Over 10 Years

www.bloomberg.com

In short the trend is clear. The trend is very clear. The more countries normalize with Israel the more they have prospered from the relationship.

 

[Haldorss]

This is not healthy.

 

[Novus ordu seclorum]

I assure you that I am more familiar with said Bible than most.

Even should they be pagans, i.e. Idol worshippers, Israel still does NOT conduct its foreign policy based on how monotheistic a religion the inhabitants of said country are.
As a matter of fact Jews have been trading with places most likely to have been India and Sri Lanka since Biblical times.

While we are on the subject, it is also a matter of considerable debate whether Hinduism itself is a monotheistic religion or not. I am far from an expert on that religion but Hindu leaders told the Israeli chief rabbi that Hinduism itself is even if many if it's followers happen to worship idols.

Metzger meets Hindu leaders in India

New Delhi conference leads to resolution denouncing terrorism, violence.

m.jpost.com

SPIEGEL Interview With Rabbi Yona Metzger: 'My Dream Is to Create a United Religious Nations'

Yona Metzger, the Ashkenazi Chief Rabbi of Israel, talks to SPIEGEL ONLINE about the Abraham as the father of all three monotheistic religions -- Islam, Christianity and Judaism -- and explains how that connection could be a starting point for a dialogue of peace between them.

www.spiegel.de

Hinduism, as the British called it, isn't monotheist. But, verses from the Veda are astonishingly reminiscent of the language in the Quran regarding formless Creator, heavens, and the earth.

I am no expert either, but my guess is Veda may not be consistent. This is likely because it includes beliefs of different groups as well as newer arriving groups over a long period of time. The original Hindustani ruling caste, Kashatriya Deva, were definitely monotheist, though.

There was no organized idol worship in India for upto 1500 years. Buddh rejected the idea of idol worship. Beginnings of organized idolatry such as temple is relatively recent, around the beginning of the first millineum CE. It took hold around 3rd or 4th century CE. South Indian Hindus began it centuries later, probably around 8th or 9th century CE.

This article gives a summary (date of Fa Hien's travel in India is around 400 CE, not 400 BCE which is typo error).

Full text of "Story Of Idol Worship In India"

archive.org

 

[Trench Broom]

Tourism Min. Katz becomes first Israeli minister to publicly visit Saudi Arabia​

Tourism Minister Haim Katz arrived in Saudi Arabia on Tuesday to take part in a conference of the United Nations World Tourism Organization (UNWTO) in the first such visit by an Israeli government minister to the Kingdom.

Katz will take part in a number of events and professional discussions while at the conference. The minister will also meet with his colleagues from other countries, especially other ministers from countries in the Middle East.

In historic first, Israeli minister publicly visits Saudi Arabia

The visit to Saudi Arabia comes as Israel and Saudi Arabia continue efforts to reach a normalization agreement and as Saudi's Nayef Al-Sudairi is credentialed as ambassador to the PA.

www.jpost.com

Good news. Neither the Iranian terror state nor the 'palestinians' can derail this now.

 

[Haldorss]

Good news. Neither the Iranian terror state nor the 'palestinians' can derail this now.

We don't need 'jewish' shills here. It can be derailed. Advisors can advise the Saudi to cease any time. Stop being so desperate about obtaining Palestine under duplicitous circumstances.

 

[ziaulislam]

If this happens, both should get a Nobel. This conflict is the root of many others and with this resolved, there won't be fuel for others.

They should give a nobel prize to Brittany spears as well

As Brittany has done more for Palestinians then "both of them"

 

[Haldorss]

We need to know if China is pushing Saudi Arabia to do this. That would mean every middle eastern country is going to be pinned by USA and China, with Israel encouraging both. USA and Israel threaten Saudis, and China and Israel 'encourage' Saudis.

 

[epebble]

They should give a nobel prize to Brittany spears as well

As Brittany has done more for Palestinians then "both of them"

What conflict has Brittany Spears resolved? Nobel is given (usually) for ending a long standing and difficult conflict. Not for 'doing more'.

 

[A Voice of Reason]

Tourism Min. Katz becomes first Israeli minister to publicly visit Saudi Arabia​

In historic first, Israeli minister publicly visits Saudi Arabia

The visit to Saudi Arabia comes as Israel and Saudi Arabia continue efforts to reach a normalization agreement and as Saudi's Nayef Al-Sudairi is credentialed as ambassador to the PA.

www.jpost.com

Good news. Neither the Iranian terror state nor the 'palestinians' can derail this now.

I don't know about things that could derail this process or if it will happen any time soon, however in less than a week a second Israeli minister plus delegation visited KSA.

None ever, then 2 in a week: 2nd Israeli minister makes official visit to Saudi Arabia

Shlomo Karhi heads 14-strong delegation to Universal Postal Union congress; group includes MK David Bitan, who hails 'small steps' toward peace with Saudis

www.timesofisrael.com

Anyone would think there is something going on.